How Do You Feel About Gender Identity Hw ?

[Deleted member 93956]

Ah yes, formless posting. My favorite.

As said before, it's very lovely that you care so deeply about them. I'm sure that taking away the right to transition and be treated in any different manner (or lawfully worse) will REALLY help things. It's not like the threat of that happening *didn't* increase that suicide rate you worry so much about, eh?

two things. one: science isn't malleable because it might reflect badly on a group of people. this means that by extension neither is biology. and while birth defects are an unfortunate anomaly its an important distinction to note that trans people have been known to both mutilate themselves and commit suicide because they are mentally ill. dude i cannot stress this enough, it is not due to any physical characteristic resulting from a birth defect that drives them to feel the way they do, the problem lies with their mental well being. because reality isn't how they perceive it should be thye either mutilate themselves, and yes it is mutilation, or kill themselves in stupidly high numbers. this is inherently self destructive behavior.

You're aware that all of that shit was almost word by word what used to be said about homosexuals, right. Just a thought.

because im a cunt, bigotry is characterized as intolerance of opinion which you have just demonstrated pretty well actually

Bigotry is stubbornness and narrowness of view to only uphold one own's prejudices, opinions and beliefs, not others'. That's just being a cunt, so you get to be both, aren't you happy.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Look up the suicide rates of Homosexuals, particularly before it was actually recognized as a sexual orientation. The idea of using suicide as a metric alone, is rather problematic because we're talking about very complex behaviour here. People struggling with acceptance, have a higher suicide rate. And this is still true even with Homosexuals, who are more likely to develope depressions due to the way how society still sees homosexuality.

If you really want to actually understand where science stands regarding transgenders, than you can not just take biological, psychological or anatomical definitions and look at them seperately. This maybe makes sense in a medical exam or when you're taking some blood samples or what ever, a situation where you actaully need a narrow view, like an emergency in a hospital. But if we're talking about the well beeing and self-understanding of an individual, then you can not just reduce the person you're talking about to one and only one definiton. No one here, I am sure, would accept this for them self either. People are more than the sum of their parts.

 

[R.Graves]

I'm sure that taking away the right to transition and be treated in any different manner (or lawfully worse) will REALLY help things. It's not like the threat of that happening *didn't* increase that suicide rate you worry so much about, eh?

show me where i said that right should be taken away. this is america, the land of the free, and if someone wants to ruin their body so they can become a frankenstien's abomination that's their god given right. i just think at best it should be suggested as a last resort and definitely shouldn't be encouraged.

It's not like the threat of that happening *didn't* increase that suicide rate you worry so much about, eh?

kinda just further demonstrates how mentally unsound they are then yeah?

You're aware that all of that shit was almost word by word what used to be said about homosexuals, right. Just a thought

except this "arguement" ignores the context of what i said entirely. what an arnust thing to do. (i've missed you buddy). the important distinction here the that being homosexual isnt inherently harmful to ones self. whereas being trans is almost never a positive experience in any way. if homosexuality is a mental illness its a fairly benign one.

Look up the suicide rates of Homosexuals, particularly before it was actually recognized as a sexual orientation.

well now you're comparing genuine oppression to "oh someone didn't respect my pronouns" or "reality doesn't reflect how i think it should be"

 

[Deleted member 93956]

show me where i said that right should be taken away.

I didn't.

except this "arguement" ignores the context of what i said entirely. what an arnust thing to do. (i've missed you buddy). the important distinction here the that being homosexual isnt inherently harmful to ones self. whereas being trans is almost never a positive experience in any way. if homosexuality is a mental illness its a fairly benign one.

What do you mean, you get all sorts of diseases, it's unnatural, and it can also ensue suicide and distress "in itself" the same way dysphoria can! I'm *sure* that you and homosexuals at large would be just as fine now if they had still been branded mentally ill and pampered with for pretty much just discomfort and giggles just like you're happy to be.

kinda just further demonstrates how mentally unsound they are then yeah?

Kind of just further demonstrates how retarded you are then yeah? (missed you too) If you bothered to check that out it included also the other LGBT identities, even if of course more prominently trans.

 

[Crni Vuk]

well now you're comparing genuine oppression to "oh someone didn't respect my pronouns" or "reality doesn't reflect how i think it should be"

Eh no, I didn't. That's you putting words in my mouth, quote me where I said "Opression" or where I mentioned "Pronouns" please.

This is what I actually said, you might want to read it again and form an argument based on what I said, not what you think I said or might mean.

But if we're talking about the well beeing and self-understanding of an individual, then you can not just reduce the person you're talking about to one and only one definiton. No one here, I am sure, would accept this for them self either. People are more than the sum of their parts.

Objectively speaking you're actually demanding people to conform to your reality or what you see as reality based on your definitions. The point I am making here is, that science doesn't offer you a clear answer here, it's actually a topic of debate. Sure, you could go and say, well only biological sex counts for me based on the genitals we’re born with and the chromosomes we have. But that's inaccurate because human beeings are not just their anatomy. You're more than just a walking penis, I hope. Just as how someone isn't only defined by their psychology. If you remove a cancer from a body, then all you really care about as surgeon is the anatomy, sure and in such specific cases a clear definition is usefull and good. But if you're talking about the well beeing, the personalty of a person you don't just reduce them to their tits or gonads or what ever. Or is that how you treat everybody you come across? Are women just a pair of walking tits for you? And males just a Penis while irgnoring the rest? Is it really that simple?

 

[DarkCorp]

My problem with blaming 'feelingz', for suicide is how to account for the extremely low rate of black suicides.

Considering black people are considered to be most marginalized by society, you would figure their rates would be double that of the LGBT community?

 

[Deleted member 93956]

My problem with blaming 'feelingz', for suicide is how to account for the extremely low rate of black suicides.

Considering black people are considered to be most marginalized by society, you would figure their rates would be double that of the LGBT community?

what?

 

[DarkCorp]

Crni says the suicide rate of homosexuals or LGBT is high due to oppression or non-acceptance.

I brought up the fact that the least accepted, most marginalized people, historically, are blacks. Black suicide rates are incredibly low.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

Oh, I've got the gist of it. It doesn't make it any less of an absolutely preposterous comment. Not only is it a complete misunderstanding of what Crni was saying, but also a massive leap to try and make up a straw man that even backfires if you look at it in the sense that it needs to acknowledge systematic reject, and in doing so it should obviously indeed prove similarities to LGBT, which should also prove that they're different flavors of oppression and disapproval for different times.

I'd try and argue against that, but... it's way too fucking dumb. I guess for one, your own family, friends, and general sphere of relationships isn't gonna ostracize you for being black. Or that pression has obviously lead people to suicide for all of time, white, black, or trans. White males accounted for 3/4 of US' (and of mostly anywhere with majority white demographic) yearly suicides, so where the hell does that leave you? "Feelingz", or is the literal "normal person" ridden with an inherent mental illness?

 

[DarkCorp]

How am I misconstruing or misunderstanding what Crni is saying? I know he is responding to something else but his answer includes people being offended as a possible reason for suicide, which to me is silly.

"Look up the suicide rates of Homosexuals, particularly before it was actually recognized as a sexual orientation. The idea of using suicide as a metric alone, is rather problematic because we're talking about very complex behaviour here. People struggling with acceptance, have a higher suicide rate. And this is still true even with Homosexuals, who are more likely to develope depressions due to the way how society still sees homosexuality." Crni

Just because ones offended or has hurt feelings in no way justifies killing oneself. That is what I am trying to say. A person is responsible for his or her own feelings, or how to interpret other peoples comments. Those trans folks who try to equate not using proper pronouns as an 'act of violence', is what really is preposterous. Those who equate a perceived insult as a justification for self harm or violence on others is preposterous.



Just look as the panel vainly tries to justify threats of violence over a simple disagreement.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Crni says the suicide rate of homosexuals or LGBT is high due to oppression or non-acceptance.

I brought up the fact that the least accepted, most marginalized people, historically, are blacks. Black suicide rates are incredibly low.

Exactly, because as we all know, there can't be black homosexuals or transgenders/transexuals. If you want to make a fair comparision, than you have to look at black homosexuals and compare their suicide rates with homosexuals of other ethnicities.

I remember this quote from a black homosexual which goes like, beeing black is much easier than gay, because you don't have to explain your mother the colour of your skin. Without the intention to attack you, but honestly don't like this "Group X was more marginalized/opressed than group Z". It never leads to good discussions and it never solves any problem for either group. The point I was trying to make is, that people under immense social preasure simply have a lot more tendencies to comitt suicides, this includes all kinds of people, regardless of gender or ethnicity.

 

[valcik]

The exact method to find out why someone killed himself does not exist. Assuming that dead homosexual killed himself due to being oppressed by society means you jump to most convenient conclusion whilst ignoring plethora of other possible reasons. Such as the most simple reason, leading to suicides all across the globe no matter what sexual orientation - dude in midlife crissis realizes he's just useless pretentious talentless hack and kills himself.

 

[R.Graves]

you get all sorts of diseases

yeah if you're a degenerate whore like 90% of the gay community is.

it's unnatural

yeah the gays are the result of a science experiment gone awry.

and it can also ensue suicide and distress "in itself" the same way dysphoria can!

yeah i guess if you're a faggot. i've had depression my entire life and not once have i tried to commit suicide because I just don't feel like it. its not guaranteed though. i've never once felt bad or ashamed of my... taste. the depression is an entirely separate condition.

point is gays and trans aren't near the same thing. being attracted to men isn't a delusion for me. its a fact of life.

whereas being trans is a delusion because the fact of life here is that men are men and women are women. its really that simple.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

yeah if you're a degenerate whore like 90% of the gay community is.

yeah the gays are the result of a science experiment gone awry.

yeah i guess if you're a faggot. i've had depression my entire life and not once have i tried to commit suicide because I just don't feel like it. its not guaranteed though. i've never once felt bad or ashamed of my... taste. the depression is an entirely separate condition.

point is gays and trans aren't near the same thing. being attracted to men isn't a delusion for me. its a fact of life.

whereas being trans is a delusion because the fact of life here is that men are men and women are women. its really that simple.

Animals are aware of their roles in their societies not because they see their dick and think “oh I guess I’m a hunter” but because they have an innate awareness of whether they are a man or a woman. Most of the time, the gender and sex of such animals correspond, but on rare occasions, they do not. Nature and biology is not as simple as “facts of life,” and there are a lot of complexities to the natural world that cannot be compressed into just man=man & woman=woman.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

“See this one blatantly ‘unnatural’ thing I just happen to fit in is NORMAL but this other one (that I’m not) ISN’t” yeah my man that’s totally not the history of literally all “anomalies” we’ve come across and grown on.

Whereas being gay is a delusion, as the fact of life is that men are supposed to bum women and women, men. Wow this is really easy to do huh.

Let alone how, or to who, are they supposed to be answering to with what they (and you) do with their own lives and bodies, when it’s not getting in the way of someone else and being a clearly positive change for their psyche and lifestyle.

 

[yfk12]

Of all the threads you had to necro, why exactly did you have to choose this particular one?

Anyway, here's my opinion on the issue: I don't fully understand what causes trans people to identify as a certain gender. However, it doesn't really affect me, and they seem to appreciate acceptance of their gender of identity, so I think it's best to err on the side of caution and allow people to choose their gender.

 

[R.Graves]

“See this one blatantly ‘unnatural’ thing I just happen to fit in is NORMAL but this other one (that I’m not) ISN’t”

i never claimed it wasn't an abnormality. i just said that calling unnatural doesn't make sense.

Whereas being gay is a delusion

nope. its clear how things normally are but me being attracted to men is a FACT. therefore seeing as how its demonstrably true that gay men are attracted to men it can't be a delusion. on the flip side it is demonstrably true that men cannot become women no matter how much they mutilate themselves.

Wow this is really easy to do huh.

obviously not because you're really bad at it.

Let alone how, or to who, are they supposed to be answering to with what they (and you) do with their own lives and bodies, when it’s not getting in the way of someone else and being a clearly positive change for their psyche and lifestyle.

like i said the suicide rate is roughly the same for pre op and post op so not exactly the most postive change across the board is it?

However, it doesn't really affect me

yeah no... it affects the culture at large. and embracing degeneracy and mental illness is not a good thing. its why the gay community is fucking trash. they figure "hey i'm already a sexual deviant may as well go the extra mile and then BAM! aids everywhere"

the extra mile here is letting little boys enter drag pageants.



guys this shit is fucked.

 

[Crni Vuk]

nope. its clear how things normally are but me being attracted to men is a FACT. therefore seeing as how its demonstrably true that gay men are attracted to men it can't be a delusion. on the flip side it is demonstrably true that men cannot become women no matter how much they mutilate themselves.

And a lot of transexuals and transgenders understand that.

Seriously, as someone who is gay I am suprised that you don't see the issue here. I am sure I could find some crazy homosexual pedophile to show you how they are perverts or I could find some guy who got in a christian conversion therapy (say heeeloooo to Mike Pence! And some people are worried that muslims and transexuals will take over the country) and now lives 'happily' with a wife and kidz to again show you how homosexuality is just a delusion. But would that change your mind? I doubt it. And rightfully so. As it means nothing in the end.

We can talk about a lot of things but this is what always surprises me that people do not seem to understand that you can find with ANY group some individual that always proves all of your arguments. However, that is nothing more but anecdotal evidence really and proves absolutely nothing.

No one here at least ever disputed the BIOLOGICAL facts about humans and yes some people out there are delusional about it. But the majority understands the biological limitations set up on us by nature. However, it is also equally true that we as human beeings are not just all nature, that some of it is also nurture. Psychology plays a huge role in how we see us and how we define us, our gender etc. All I am trying to say here is, that it's fucking complicated and there is still a hell of lot of research that has to be done. And maybe we will never get all the answers. For eample, the mechanics behind heterosexuality and homosexuality, the cause and how it actually works, is not completely understood either. Some researchers believe, that while biology is important, psychology and nurture also play a role. How much? To what capacity? That is a very debated topic.

Seriously try not to dismiss everything just because it sounds ridiculous to you and do not always just think in strictly biological terms. As humans, we are really more than just the sum of our parts. That does NOT mean that you have to agree with everything or that you can't say, you know this sounds ridiculous! But we shouldn't act like we know everything either. Human sexuality is easily one of the most complex ones among the 'animal' kingdom if you want so.

 

[Hassknecht]

i never claimed it wasn't an abnormality. i just said that calling unnatural doesn't make sense.

nope. its clear how things normally are but me being attracted to men is a FACT. therefore seeing as how its demonstrably true that gay men are attracted to men it can't be a delusion. on the flip side it is demonstrably true that men cannot become women no matter how much they mutilate themselves.

obviously not because you're really bad at it.

like i said the suicide rate is roughly the same for pre op and post op so not exactly the most postive change across the board is it?

yeah no... it affects the culture at large. and embracing degeneracy and mental illness is not a good thing. its why the gay community is fucking trash. they figure "hey i'm already a sexual deviant may as well go the extra mile and then BAM! aids everywhere"

the extra mile here is letting little boys enter drag pageants.



guys this shit is fucked.

Don't worry, some pride parade allegedly banned drag queens in order not to offend transgenders. The revolution always eats its own.

 

[R.Graves]

And a lot of transexuals and transgenders understand that.

well then these one's aren't delusional then.

Seriously, as someone who is gay

huh i didn't know you were gay

I am sure I could find some crazy homosexual pedophile to show you how they are perverts

i'll bet we could. sexual deviancy and degeneracy is a fucking huge problem in the gay community. that's why with all the fucking aids. social standards are so much lower for gay men that its fucking embarrassing

do not always just think in strictly biological terms

lol no because sex and gender ARE biological terms. men are men and women are women its really that fucking simple.

honestly the fact that we even question something so simple really speaks to how absolutely fucked we are as a society.

Don't worry, some pride parade allegedly banned drag queens in order not to offend transgenders. The revolution always eats its own.

two things.


one: pride parades are of an inherently sexual nature and therefore have no place in a public forum.
two: crossdressing has heavy sexual connotations and children definitely shouldn't be allowed to do it.