17 days to go

TorontRayne said:
:rofl:

I forgot Battlecross was the one who talked about the lasers on the Lucky 38! What an oversight Obsidian. If only you paid so much attention to detail like Bethesda. Then the unwashed masses would love you the same.
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As something you could potentially view from a distance? Or perhaps visit by going to the roof? When compared to someone complaining about there not being an explanation for leather jackets? Again it was a point about simply having a sentence saying "So lasers stopped the missiles, hooray!" be okay where no explaining where jackets came from not be okay.
 
Can't wait for Fallout 4.

I have preordered it and will be hanging the poster on the door of my room.
 
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Battlecross said:
TorontRayne said:
:rofl:

I forgot Battlecross was the one who talked about the lasers on the Lucky 38! What an oversight Obsidian. If only you paid so much attention to detail like Bethesda. Then the unwashed masses would love you the same.
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As something you could potentially view from a distance? Or perhaps visit by going to the roof? When compared to someone complaining about there not being an explanation for leather jackets? Again it was a point about simply having a sentence saying "So lasers stopped the missiles, hooray!" be okay where no explaining where jackets came from not be okay.
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YOu can see the tower and it's protusions from as far away from the strip as Goodsprings. There is no real reason to go to the roof and there are no rocket ships to go into space and see the satelites. On the other example they are trying to sell the idea of a Vault that never opens but somehow a group of teenagers managed to get Leather jackets just to sell a cliched greaser visual. So it basically breaks the intended narrative with stupid aesthetics. Which is a pretty stupid move. It's as if I was trying to sell the idea of a character who has ben sheltered since childhood in a room and never was even allowed to read or see the sunlight but the first thing they do it to out of nowhere start quoting The Fonze and make internet jokes.
 
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Walpknut said:
YOu can see the tower and it's protusions from as far away from the strip as Goodsprings. There is no real reason to go to the roof and there are no rocket ships to go into space and see the satelites. On the other example they are trying to sell the idea of a Vault that never opens but somehow a group of teenagers managed to get Leather jackets just to sell a cliched greaser visual. So it basically breaks the intended narrative with stupid aesthetics. Which is a pretty stupid move. It's as if I was trying to sell the idea of a character who has ben sheltered since childhood in a room and never was even allowed to read or see the sunlight but the first thing they do it to out of nowhere start quoting The Fonze and make internet jokes.
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We know Vault 101 was opened at least once when they allowed James and his son into the vault. If you logged into the computer in the overseers office before leaving you found several files on the surrounding area as they had sent scouts out. The files mention the ants and the existence of Megaton. Then when we get to Megaton Moira has vault 101 jumpsuits in her inventory and I think she gives us an armored 101 suit as a reward at some point. This would tell us the vault has been opened more than just the one time.

Yes the leather jackets were a little silly, but given that we can find leather armor in the wastes, and the scouting runs, it is at least a tiny bit possible that they either found leather jackets in the wasteland, or tanned some brahmin hides into leather. Even if we don't see a library, I don't think it unreasonable to think they might have some sort of file system on the computers that would have historical information on it, and some of that info possibly being popular culture references.

And another idea that just popped in my head may be that they used leather holsters to create their jackets. The leather is stiffer, but could be made compliant over time.

As to why we don't see canons on a building in New Vegas, it never occurred to me to look for them, but a sophisticated laser canon system would likely be retractable so as not to draw undue attention.
 
LostPony said:
Walpknut said:
YOu can see the tower and it's protusions from as far away from the strip as Goodsprings. There is no real reason to go to the roof and there are no rocket ships to go into space and see the satelites. On the other example they are trying to sell the idea of a Vault that never opens but somehow a group of teenagers managed to get Leather jackets just to sell a cliched greaser visual. So it basically breaks the intended narrative with stupid aesthetics. Which is a pretty stupid move. It's as if I was trying to sell the idea of a character who has ben sheltered since childhood in a room and never was even allowed to read or see the sunlight but the first thing they do it to out of nowhere start quoting The Fonze and make internet jokes.
Click to expand...

We know Vault 101 was opened at least once when they allowed James and his son into the vault. If you logged into the computer in the overseers office before leaving you found several files on the surrounding area as they had sent scouts out. The files mention the ants and the existence of Megaton. Then when we get to Megaton Moira has vault 101 jumpsuits in her inventory and I think she gives us an armored 101 suit as a reward at some point. This would tell us the vault has been opened more than just the one time.

Yes the leather jackets were a little silly, but given that we can find leather armor in the wastes, and the scouting runs, it is at least a tiny bit possible that they either found leather jackets in the wasteland, or tanned some brahmin hides into leather. Even if we don't see a library, I don't think it unreasonable to think they might have some sort of file system on the computers that would have historical information on it, and some of that info possibly being popular culture references.

And another idea that just popped in my head may be that they used leather holsters to create their jackets. The leather is stiffer, but could be made compliant over time.

As to why we don't see canons on a building in New Vegas, it never occurred to me to look for them, but a sophisticated laser canon system would likely be retractable so as not to draw undue attention.
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Thing is that neither Butch or his friends seem to even know anthing about the scout runs (because they happened before they were even alive) and they exhibit no knowledge of the outside other than themselves wanting to form a gang and poof, they suddenly have greaser Jackets with custom artwok on the back when theyare teens. I mean they could've sold the greaser thing by having them wear their Vault suits in a different way, maybe noteven wear the top parts and tie them into a knot, painting the top parts with grease to make them look liek leather jackets or something. The biggest problem si that they are just too perfect Jackets, with belts, buttons and all that. It's a small and trivial detail, I mean the "Tunnel Snakes" don't even do shit in the story beyond serving the "Highschool narrative" that whole Vault section had, but it still betrays some of the grander problems of Fallout 3's setting with them favoring flourish to actually thinkign things through. I mean, the idea of a Vault being closed for so long that it becomes a microcosm of the prewar world with gangs and outsiders forming in protest is interesting, but like many things in FO3 it's presented in an entirely superficial "on the moment" way. In thegrander scheme FO3 has bigger problems than the jackets, but it't still a pretty silly hole one finds, which typically happens when a game fails to make engage your willing suspension of disbelief by constantly breaking it's own rules and having a shallow silly world.

The Boomers did it better anyway and they got thir Jackets from the Airbase :V.
 
LOL. I see your point. I guess my problem is that I tend to just shut my critical thinking off when I play. Obviously you don't and therefore the game doesn't work for you. Yesterday I thought I would check out Wasteland 2 and watched a video of some early game play. Wow. I can see the lure of that much thought when playing, but it ain't for me! Now mind you I'm a guy that when I played with my 100+ collection of HO scale slot cars would run each car for a timed flying lap and seed the cars according to speed and chassis type, track their points in class and run them for days on end. All in solitude. Then modify the slower cars and run them again so the slower cars would catch the faster cars.

I don't know what the answer is for you classic fans, but I hope you can get some enjoyment out of the new game.
 
That's the thing, Bethesda games are best played with your brain turned off. Think too much and the "immurshun" is gone.
 
I don't think our expectations are unfeasible. They've butchered the character system IMO (I know they fully intended for it to be how it is, but I think 3's is better.), but if they have the decency of putting together an at least coherent main story that has some tangible depth in choices and consequences, which I actually think they are capable of, then I will be happier with Fallout 4, but it won't discount my dislike for the character system.
 
I hear your complaints, and believe them valid in regards to choice and consequence. It is easy to lose sight of that but was made vividly apparent when watching the Wasteland gameplay. All is based upon the build and skill of the character and not the player. The PC manipulates the lock, not a mini game the player controls. Selecting the correct member of your team to do the task is crucial. Bethesda philosophy directly contradicts this because they, and I if I'm honest, put themselves into the game as the PC and want the chance dictated by your skill. Or more correctly, the illusion of your skill.

While not a RPG in the sense of the classics, it is an RPG in the sense that I can imagine myself and how I perceive myself in a world they created for me. I can have the illusion that I am there and the master of my destiny. I wish the game did have consequences similar to NV, as it would be nice to see actual changes in the way the game responds to what I did, and maybe try another way next time. Again though, it flies in the face of what Bethesda thinks is freedom but not blocking me from joining a group because I helped the opposing group. They think I should be able to play both sides. And maybe I should, if I am thoughtful enough to play both sides against the middle for my own gain, but not just because they think I should be able to do it all.

I think I am rambling nonsensical now.... feel free to ignore all that.
 
Another one...

O Hyperborean Wanderer said:
When the vast majority like something, and the vocal minority don't, that's usually a sign that the vocal minority are wrong.
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In the case of Bethesda, the majority do not articulate why they like their products versus gush memes and praise like PR robots; when criticized, they double down and act like you have been within the number of posts you've made here.

Unlike the Bethsoft forums, you will, around NMA, find detailed points as to why their games are sub-par. If you take the time to look instead of take and run with the mindset those forums drill in about this site.

TheChosen1 said:
Problem is, he might just be stupid, not trolling.
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No, he seems like the typical Bethesdrone many get when they try and be critical of a company that is in dire need of criticism.

RetroAmerica said:
You do understand, that the Creative Team over at Bethesda even openly admitted they either did not play the original Fallout Franchise games or knew very little about them...which explains the train wreck that is Fallout 3, and the highly anticipated garbage that is Fallout 4.
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Wait...they never did? ...Guess that explains why Emil and Todd never said so in the "Making Of" video versus them meandering around the acquisition of the IP and that they based F3 around "...the themes of the original Fallout."
 
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Well the honest truth is that Fallout was never meant to be a game for the masses. The quality of the setting and the game in general however made it somewhat popular - popular enough that Bethesda and a few other companies considered to buy it even, Bethesda didn't jumped to the rescue, they just outbid everyone else. So this idea, the masses are always right! Is simply silly. THis isn't politics. Why should the masses decide what is good or not? What kind of gameplay or design has a right to exist and which one not? Fallout was always more of a niche product. And changing it in a way that it appeals to the masses means to dismantle everything what made Fallout actually famous in the first place.
 
I mean, it's not even that big a deal that Fallout isn't a turn-based RPG anymore, because we're actually getting really good RPG's from studios thanks to Kickstarter and other crowdfunding sources.

I mean, it kind of sucks.

But generally, it's not like the Fallout 3 days when it was all a freaking dearth of genuinely good RPGs.
 
Anyone who says that the mass is always right is an idiot. I mean, that's the literal easiest argument to dismantle.
 
generalissimofurioso said:
Godwin's Law isn't even a rule of debate.

It's basically saying that eventually, someone in an argument will compare the other to Hitler and the Nazis.

I mean, invoking someone's actions as Nazi-like is pretty easy to dismantle.

Saying that something is good because it is popular is an accepted logical fallacy.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
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Easy to dismantle until the person is actually advocating for fascism, which I see quite often around the internet.
 
Well I meant it to mean Nazism was a case with a majority making a bad choice, but decided to try and be even lazier and just say that to be even more blatant in invoking it.
 
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