2008 US Elections

Sicblades said:
B5C said:
I already have like $120 a week taken away from me for federal income tax. Why is it my patriotic duty (According to Biden) that I need to pay someone else s medication for which im paying good insurance for my own. Also note universal health care is not a right!
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You shouldn't do it for other people who don't pay taxes, but for a universal good, it doesn't hurt you that the money you're already paying goes to give a benefit for everyone in the society. You're paying for people's education but somehow that's not a problem? Unless of course you believe that that money should only go towards your own education and you live in a society of morons. Universal health care isn't a great evil that should concern you too much because you lose an extra 20 bucks a month. Granted that that 20 bucks can be used for something personally enjoyable, but you should also be thankful that that 20 dollars a month could prevent you from having a disease transmitted because Joe Schmuck can't afford insurance.
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Well written sir! What ever happened to "I'm my brothers keeper." ?

I personally don't think the 46 million (and then some) uninsured Americans are enjoying this health care system right now... I am disgusted that my own parents can not afford medical insurance let alone a Dr. visit. Therefor they have no preventive health care, so should something go wrong, they are screwed and possibly taken from me far too early in my life.

Buxbaum666 said:
A true republican doesn't give a shit about people who aren't him.
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There unfortunately seems to be more truth to that statement than I would like to admit. However it is a inflammatory statement and one should refrain from using it. We need to come up with more constructive ways to resolve our differences now more than ever.
 
Buxbaum666 said:
A true republican doesn't give a shit about people who aren't him.
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That is not true, I do not give a shit about anyone else EXCEPT myself, friends and relatives :wink:

I suppose I am not exactly Republican tho, pretty deep right wing for sure but not Republican by most peoples standards.
 
Buxbaum666 said:
A true republican doesn't give a shit about people who aren't him.
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I only care about me, my soon to be wife, and my family. That is all. I work in the Rent-to-own industry. I see what low income families live like. They don't need my money!
 
I have to agree with the notion I do not owe anyone else a dime. If I make my own bread I should not have to help support people who are not as ambitious as me.

If you earn something with sweat and labor you should not be forced to give part of it away due to someones socialist ideas for society.

Fuck that "I'm my brothers keeper." bullshit, this is America and I am my own keeper.

/endrant

That being said I am keeping an open mind still that this "redistribution" will not get to out of hand.
 
Bal-Sagoth said:
I have to agree with the notion I do not owe anyone else a dime. If I make my own bread I should not have to help support people who are not as ambitious as me.

If you earn something with sweat and labor you should not be forced to give part of it away due to someones socialist ideas for society.

Fuck that "I'm my brothers keeper." bullshit, this is America and I am my own keeper.

/endrant

That being said I am keeping an open mind still that this "redistribution" will not get to out of hand.
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This is why I'm glad I live in Canada, where "we" is more important than "me" and I get stuff like free health care.

We're all in this together. The sooner that more people realize this, the sooner things will improve for everybody.
 
Government loves redistribution as long as the redistribution is taking money away from you. When you get ill and can't work for some time and it turns out that you don't have any savings because the government redistributed them, suddenly they don't want to have anything to do with you. Don't count on any help because you had too much income last year. So, in the end it turns out that you have only family and closest friends. And banks.
Maybe the government will help you when you are already in complete financial ruin :roll: .
 
Sicblades said:
You shouldn't do it for other people who don't pay taxes, but for a universal good, it doesn't hurt you that the money you're already paying goes to give a benefit for everyone in the society. You're paying for people's education but somehow that's not a problem? Unless of course you believe that that money should only go towards your own education and you live in a society of morons. Universal health care isn't a great evil that should concern you too much because you lose an extra 20 bucks a month. Granted that that 20 bucks can be used for something personally enjoyable, but you should also be thankful that that 20 dollars a month could prevent you from having a disease transmitted because Joe Schmuck can't afford insurance.
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If done right national health care would end up being cheaper than our current system because you could change health insurence from being a profitable scam (that one must invest in for reasonably priced health care) to being a non-profit system. It would increase profits by increasing production (preventitive medicine = population [ie employees] in better health) and reduce the healthcare bill for companies which already pay for their employee's insurence. Again, you gotta set up the system right which the insurence companies aren't going to be happy about (you don't even have to make it a single payer system) but it's beneficial for the entire population.

rcorporon said:
We're all in this together. The sooner that more people realize this, the sooner things will improve for everybody.
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Exactly.
 
rcorporon said:
This is why I'm glad I live in Canada, where "we" is more important than "me" and I get stuff like free health care.
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There is no such thing as "free" health care.
 
B5C said:
There is no such thing as "free" health care.
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If my son gets sick, I take him to our family doctor, the doctor examines him, and runs some tests. He's referred to a specialist in Toronto, which is over 350 km from my hometown in Northern Ontario.

Not only will I be reimbursed for my travel to and from Toronto, none of the appointments, tests, visits, etc will cost me a dime. No bills, no medical related bankruptcy, none of it.

I'll gladly have a slightly higher income tax rate for this type of protection.
 
rcorporon said:
Bal-Sagoth said:
I have to agree with the notion I do not owe anyone else a dime. If I make my own bread I should not have to help support people who are not as ambitious as me.

If you earn something with sweat and labor you should not be forced to give part of it away due to someones socialist ideas for society.

Fuck that "I'm my brothers keeper." bullshit, this is America and I am my own keeper.

/endrant

That being said I am keeping an open mind still that this "redistribution" will not get to out of hand.
Click to expand...

This is why I'm glad I live in Canada, where "we" is more important than "me" and I get stuff like free health care.

We're all in this together. The sooner that more people realize this, the sooner things will improve for everybody.
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The hammer and sickle and Trotsky quotes send off red flags (no pun intended) that I should probably not even touch this one as no good will come of it and I do not want to make enemies with people on this forum.

That being said if your socialistic paradise is working for you up in the great white north all the power to you comrade. :wink:

I personally do not want to have to worry about the threat of others taking what I rightfully earned.

Anyways no use getting real worked up over it, I do not think Obama's policies will get abused to the extent of actually pushing the States to a true "socialistic" system.
 
Why is socialism such a terrible thing? Sweden is rather socialistic, and they do well. So well, in fact, that they have a higher standard of living, smarter kids, and cleaner, safer streets.

Quality of Life Index
Democracy Index
Corruption Perceptions Index
Worldwide Press Freedom Index
Global Peace Index
Life Expectancy 2007 Estimates CIA World Factbook

Bal-Sagoth said:
I personally do not want to have to worry about the threat of others taking what I rightfully earned.
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You're likely to lose more than what higher taxes would cost you when the economy goes under because, among other reasons, the majority cannot afford the cost of living due to heath care bills. Higher taxes and universal health care isn't a magical fix everything solution, but chew on this for a moment: A society's purpose is to protect all of its citizens, but requires that its citizens work with and for it, and that means to work with and for each other. When its citizens look out for no-one but themselves, that system breaks down. The "I've got mine, fuck you" mentality ensures that when/if you need help, there will be nobody there to help you.
 
46 million uninsured, yet they have HD TVs, drive SUVs, and eat at Applebee's every weekend. Rough. Charging shit they don't need at 18% on a credit card.
If people learned to live within their means, they could afford health insurance in the US. Better yet, take the money you'd save on premiums and put it in a flexible CD, you'd probably make more money and still have funds to cover any medical expenses.
At least until Barry imposes his capital gains tax hike.

Anyway, my state provides health insurance for all kids and most lower-middle income families FREE. What backassed states do you all live in? :P
 
Cimmerian Nights said:
46 million uninsured, yet they have HD TVs, drive SUVs, and eat at Applebee's every weekend. Rough. Charging shit they don't need at 18% on a credit card.
If people learned to live within their means, they could afford health insurance in the US. Better yet, take the money you'd save on premiums and put it in a flexible CD, you'd probably make more money and still have funds to cover any medical expenses.
At least until Barry imposes his capital gains tax hike.

Anyway, my state provides health insurance for all kids and most lower-middle income families FREE. What backassed states do you all live in? :P
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Yes, many people need to learn how to manage their money (One of my sisters especially, that stupid woman. :roll: ), but that's a pretty terrible sweeping generalization. I live in Michigan, and I actually don't know a single person in my area that has a HD TV, SUV, and eats out every weekend. One of those perhaps, but that's about it. In the Flint area, where one of my sisters lives, many people cannot even hope to afford one of those, let alone get by at all. It's hard to live within your means when there are no jobs (and therefore means) to be had.
 
I'm with Twinkie on this one. That is, I really hope he is with me on this one. Because I like him. <3

Buxbaum666 said:
A true republican doesn't give a shit about people who aren't him.
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It's quite amazing how an actually sarcastic statement turns out to be true. Republicans are selfish, antisocial little shits thinking that their crap doesn't smell while they fail to realize that their lifestyle wouldn't even be possible if they wouldn't rely on other people every single instant of their lives. I say fuck you. Go establish your own country somewhere and see how you get along with everybody thinking like that. Sheesh.

Pardon my French.
 
Buxbaum666 said:
I'm with Twinkie on this one. That is, I really hope he is with me on this one. Because I like him. <3
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twinkie responds to this statement with non-pornographic suggestive imagery: :whistle: :liar:

Buxbaum666 said:
It's quite amazing how an actually sarcastic statement turns out to be true. Republicans are selfish, antisocial little shits thinking that their crap doesn't smell while they fail to realize that their lifestyle wouldn't even be possible if they wouldn't rely on other people every single instant of their lives. I say fuck you. Go establish your own country somewhere and see how you get along with everybody thinking like that.
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well, obviously not all of 'em but the few posting in this thread don't do much to prove you wrong.
 
rcorporon said:
B5C said:
There is no such thing as "free" health care.
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If my son gets sick, I take him to our family doctor, the doctor examines him, and runs some tests. He's referred to a specialist in Toronto, which is over 350 km from my hometown in Northern Ontario.

Not only will I be reimbursed for my travel to and from Toronto, none of the appointments, tests, visits, etc will cost me a dime. No bills, no medical related bankruptcy, none of it.

I'll gladly have a slightly higher income tax rate for this type of protection.
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BAM! with the knock out punch.

Hell don't you guys get free dental too?

Fuck the jerey shore...I don't even live there. I guess I should move and become Canada's super hero.
 
Canadian healthcare is great until you needs specialized attention or have to wait. My aunt and cousin in Toronto had to come to the states twice and pay out of pocket and were not reimbursed. You socialize healthcare and many of those specialized doctors will cease to exist. They would never be able to pay their college loan... Or is the govt supposed to pay for that too?

As for higher taxes, you can not compare the societies of other countries that have been mentioned with the United States. Our society has degenerated so far it's hardly recoverable. You keep giving out handouts the lazier and more stuck in a rut many will be.

The more you tax the middle and upper middle class the less charity will recieve. Fact.

The more you tax small business and corporations... They'll just raise their fees.

Welfare and our hospital system now is a joke but for a completely oposite reason. Hell the New Mexico, Arizona, and California (if not being bailed out in the budget) hospital systems are going bankrupt due to all the uninsured, most who are illegal aliens. Spend that attention and money on American citizens and "legal" immigrants and many problems will be fixed.

Basically get rid of every opportunity for illegals to stay here. Their are plenty of legal immigrants and high school kids, and even those struck in that welfare rut, that can take those jobs. I'll pay an extra 10 cents an orange... They are a much larger drain on our economy than are stated. Especially when it comes to healthcare and education.
 
Obamas protectionistic stance on world trade will cripple USA, especially big companies like GM, Ford and so on.
 
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