A small mindless rant on games, graphics, brainwashed drones, and Fallout.

[Greed]

You also seemed to have forgotten the existence of perks.

I specifically mention not taking into account perks in my post.

Getting +25 DT with Heavy Armor is worthless I am guessing.

Technically yes, as that more DT would get applied regardless of if you were wearing light armor, or heavy armor, and bring both numbers down accordingly. Keeping the ratios the same.

Which would mean light armor is still superior to heavy armor, as it would still take the same number of hits to kill you in both, as shown above, while also not having the speed reduction penalties, the sneak penalties, the repair costs, or the inventory space, of heavy armor.

And this is on normal. On higher difficulties, where enemies get magical X2/X3 damage boosts, it would be even more pointless to wear heavy armor.

 

[Zerginfestor]

Ohhh now I understand, it's that stupid...Damage Bleedthrough crap they added, ugh. Thanks for the point, Greed.

As for the explosive DT, however, I'm pretty sure the right perks and heavy armor make the survival of nades far higher than Light armor, right? Someone should do a calculation on that..

EDIT: Nevermind, did the calculation myself, you tank 24.72 hits from dynamite before dying. That's pretty intense protection.

Frag grenade is 5.701 hits with the armor and perks up.

 

[Walpknut]

You are doubling your DT by taking Hit the deck and Power Armor. There are different ways of running an explosives character, you could just turtle a bunch of damage while rainning grenades from the grenade Launcher or the Missile Launcher if you are running it as a Strength Endurance Explosives run, you will even be able to do desperate close range explosive attacks with them without killing yourself, that's the build that made it easier for me to clear through the divide as I would be able to explode shit close to myself while surrounded by Tunnelers.

 

[Zerginfestor]

Still, I can see why Sawyer added DR to the armors to give them a bigger edge, though I still think Damage Bleedthrough should've been lowered drastically from 20%.

 

[Greed]

You are doubling your DT by taking Hit the deck and Power Armor..

And you are doubling your DT by taking "Hit the Deck" and wearing the Vault Security armor also
19+25=44
38+25=63
In this case
Dynamite
-9.4 hits at 44
-15.8 at 63
Frag
-4.1 at 44
-6.5 at 63
Plasma
-1.9 at 44
-2.1 at 63

Even in both cases, you only see a real improvement in how many hits you can take when comparing dynamite. When it comes to frags its still only two more hits, and when it comes to plasma its still only 1.

And again, this is at the max base health you can reach in vanilla, at 445. And heavy armor has all the problems of sneak penalties, movement penalties, repair costs, and taking up more of your carryweight.

If you have less then max possible HP, you will get even smaller gains. Heavy armor is objectivly worse for you in NV, even with perks like Hit the Deck.

Still, I can see why Sawyer added DR to the armors to give them a bigger edge, though I still think Damage Bleedthrough should've been lowered drastically from 20%.

Doing that would just cause the same problems Fallout 1/2 had, where you could negate all, or basically all, damage, ruining the game balance.

Which is the likely reason they added the beledthrough in the first place.

 

[Walpknut]

Sneak penalties and Movement penalties are irrelevant if your build is not based on quick movement and sneaking but rather on turtling damage. Not all characters are sneaky, not all character are meant to hoard 100 paperweights.

All your issues with this seem to come from you not concieving running any build that isn't just a min maxer "ideal" run.

 

[Greed]

Sneak penalties and Movement penalties are irrelevant if your build is not based on quick movement and sneaking but rather on turtling damage. Not all characters are sneaky, not all character are meant to hoard 100 paperweights.

Not really. It doesn't matter if your character is designed to go fast or not, if you can go faster, and lose basically no effective damage negation from it, no one would NOT do it.

Not to mention this isn't taking into account things like how many stimpacks there are all over the game world, and how many caps the game throws at you, which make it easy to buy stimpacks, which makes what little negation you lose meaningless, since you can never run into a situation in which you wont have healing items unless you are just absolutely abysmal at the game.

 

[Walpknut]

So all your issues are because you only focus on min maxing and not on actually trying different builds? No one would not do it? I think that's the very place we just aren't meeting, the point of an RPG is being able to run it however you want it, not everybody is a min maxer.

 

[Greed]

So all your issues are because you only focus on min maxing and not on actually trying different builds? No one would not do it? I think that's the very place we just aren't meeting, the point of an RPG is being able to run it however you want it, not everybody is a min maxer.

If I was advocating min maxing I would be suggesting everyone get every skill to 100, and every SPECIAL to 10.

I am not.

There is a difference between not gimping yourself for no reason, and min maxing.

 

[Walpknut]

Getting all your skills to 100 and SPECIAL to 10 is not min maxing. That's just using exploits and cheating.

Min maxing is when you basically tell people that something is bad because it doesn't fall within this carefully picked "ideal way" to run everything, so you won't ever do anything that would change the basic way you carry your character around. Basically the "You are playing the RPG WRONG!" argument.

 

[Greed]

Getting all your skills to 100 and SPECIAL to 10 is not min maxing. That's just using exploits and cheating.

Min maxing is when you basically tell people that something is bad because it doesn't fall within this carefully picked "ideal way" to run everything, so you won't ever do anything that would change the basic way you carry your character around. Basically the "You are playing the RPG WRONG!" argument.

No. Min-maxing is getting all your stats/skill as high as possible, regardless of what your "role" is.

You don't have to cheat or use exploits to get everything maxed in NV, especially with the DLC. Its basically impossible to not get all your skills to 100, or near 100, even with a mediocre INT score, because the game throws so many levels at you, and you are forced to spend all your skill points before you can leave the level up screen, that its unavoidable that you will max many skills not part of your role.

 

[Walpknut]

Logans Loophole apparently doesn't exist. Oh wait "Nobody would use it unless they play bad".

 

[Greed]

Logans Loophole apparently doesn't exist. Oh wait "Nobody would use it unless they play bad".

That wasn't being factored into the conversation.

Logan's Loophole has some pretty good benefits to it, but it is not in every, or most, builds.

 

[Jogre]

B. If its done like in Fallout 1/2, DT quickly and easily negates effectively all damage, making you invulnerable, and ruining any sort of game balance. Which was a big criticism of Fallout 1/2, the whole reason why everyone tells you to get Enclave APA via the shortcut, and then go back and play the game, and the likely reason why they added the cap in New Vegas.

A. Most players will not realize that they can do power armor runs, and will simply complete the game in the order they were expected to. The only reason you would get Power Armor so early in the game that it makes a difference is because you already know it's there. Most players in there first runs will not even know that they can do that.

Just because it's possible to use your previous knowledge of the game to your advantage, doesn't mean that the system is broken. You can cheat your way through almost any game if you have previous-knowledge of where everything is and what everything does.

B. I don't see how it breaks balance to have high-level armor being incredibly powerful. Isn't the point of having high-level armor in the first-place that it's powerful?

C. In order to get Power Armor in 1, you have to infiltrate the glow, and get a holodisk. In order to get it in 2, you need to escape waves of Enclave Patrols to get to Navarro. Getting Power Armor in those games isn't exactly a walk in the park.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

@JO'Geran put it perfectly. If you're using prior knowledge of a game of course it's going to be easier. It's not like the first NPC you meet directs you towards people who give you power armour for helping them. And it's not like they're just a good 60/70 yards away from your spawn. And it's not like you also get a minigun and take down one of the toughest enemies in the game.

Wait...

 

[Prone Squanderer]

In order to get it in 2, you need to escape waves of Enclave Patrols to get to Navarro. Getting Power Armor in those games isn't exactly a walk in the park.

Not only do you have to actually reach Navarro, you have to get in without getting shot by numerous Enclave troopers and plasma turrets. Unless you can bluff your way in it's not likely a low-level player would make it to the power armour.

 

[Greed]

snip

A. That would be true if this was the late 90's, basically no one had the internet, and online communities didn't plaster websites with guides. You basically have to avoid looking up anything about games to not know you can do these sort of things anymore.

B. Because you can still have power armor be powerful, while not making you totally immune to damage.

C. You can get power in Fallout 2 in less then two hours into the game. It is by no means difficult.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

C. You can get power in Fallout 2 in less then two hours into the game. It is by no means difficult.

Not only do you have to actually reach Navarro, you have to get in without getting shot by numerous Enclave troopers and plasma turrets. Unless you can bluff your way in it's not likely a low-level player would make it to the power armour.

I like putting things in bold.

 

[Walpknut]

It's not like videogame guides just load up on your PC against your will.... I will actually not read any guides on my first run unless I get stuck, that's kind of a dumb argument to even make.

 

[Greed]

I like putting things in bold.

And yet every single person I know has bluffed their way in because its incredibly easy.

It's not like videogame guides just load up on your PC against your will.... I will actually not read any guides on my first run unless I get stuck, that's kind of a dumb argument to even make.

A good game wouldn't let you do it at all

Hence why Fo3 and NV had PA training.

And why Fallout 4 gives you a 80% broken suit of PA, that needs power cores, and uses rare materials you literally can't have early in the game to repair it.

Reactionary steps to the faults in Fo1/2's game design.