A small mindless rant on games, graphics, brainwashed drones, and Fallout.

[CerberusGate]

let me remind you that not everything in legend is... true.

I do feel that the setting uses way too many Dragon Breaks to weld canon together when multiple endings to a scenario occur. It's a rather stupid cop-out.

 

[Dr Fallout]

1. It was an example about Morrowind's atlas/encyclopedia style dialogue system in general.
2. To complain about Oblivion/Skyrim? No, because they do it well. There is plenty to complain about Morrowind's god awful handling of dialogue and the meta-point.
3. What you just said is contradictory "She doesn't tell you that your not the chosen one, but she says your not the chosen one unless you do these things!". Like, do you honestly not see the contradiction there?
4. Actually, IIRC, you have to click on that dialogue option to progress the MQ, making it unmissable.

1. So it has no actual weight in the discussion and you're just changing the goal posts here.
2. But HOW do they handle it well? By what, doing the same thing? Oblivion has a much worse dialogue system. Its like Morrowind but with only three key words and single line answers.
3.

She doesn't go outright and say you're actually the chosen one

Happy... or do you want to keep nitpicking that part and ignore my point?
4. True, but that's the one where it's also the least obvious and seems to show a point common to all RPGs. You're not the Dragonborn in Skyrim UNLESS you go and do the mainquestline, visiting the Greybeards and so on.

This whole conversation was about Morrowind spoonfeeding you the meta-point, not the general lore.

But it only occurs once, in one woman's dialogue. Jesus Christ man, you're so fixated on that Morrowind spoonfeeds you the meta-point that you consider the ramblings of a medicine woman in one part of the game. And that's only one meta-point, there are more such as the nature of religion and myth.

Except the entire point of TES lore is that all myths are true, and that all contradictory versions of the gods exist simultaneously.

According to Michael Kirkbride.

 

[Greed]

snip

1. What?
2. I already showed you how, by better integration of the metapoint into the environment rather then NPCs dialogue. And what you described about Oblivion's dialogue system is what makes it better. Instead of these encyclopedic answers, that don't resemble human speech, that Morrowind gives out. Oblivion actually has people talk more like people(except those god awful radiant conversations between NPCs), giving you shorter, more realistic sounding answers, and then expecting you to go read a book if you want to learn more.
3. As I pointed out, what you said is contradictory because she does in fact say what you said she doesn't.
4. But thats not true. You are the dragonborn before the Greybeards even call you. you are the dragonborn since game start. You only discover you are the dragonborn later.
5. And again, your ignoring the point that all of Morrowind's dialogue is like that. Everything NPCs bring up is delivered in the same way.
6. Actually, its according to Kurt Khuulman as well, who is the project lead on TES games, and is the guy who made up most of the crazy lore alongside Kirkbride back in the Morrowind days.

 

[CerberusGate]

do you want to keep nitpicking that part and ignore my point?

Based on its latest response, it looks like it wants to ignore your point and continue nitpicking.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Except the entire point of TES lore is that all myths are true, and that all contradictory versions of the gods exist simultaneously.

Which is also a very easy way to say, fuck lore, we don't give a shit that you give a shit about it. Who cares that in Oblivion Cyrodiil is visualy poor mans Lord of the Rings, in some alternative Universe it's still a jungle!

 

[Greed]

Which is also a very easy way to say, fuck lore, we don't give a shit that you give a shit about it. Who cares that in Oblivion Cyrodiil is visualy poor mans Lord of the Rings, in some alternative Universe it's still a jungle!

Actually, the whole reasoning behind it is that the TES unvierse is effective a sentient hallucination of the "godhead", who is Anu the everything.

Anu fought his brother Sithis, and flung themselves into a sun in their unvierse, and the sensory deprivation of being in the sun caused his mind to hallucinate the TES unvierse.

OFC Anu is dead, but dead gods still dream, but the dream is magic, and no longer needs the god who dreamed it to keep it alive. All those pesky little mortals believing in the universe keeps it floating via magic.

Its that same magic of belief that allows mortals to unconsciously puppet the bodies of the god Aedra, which is in turn the reason why all the variations of the gods exist.

but thats the really really esoteric parts of TES lore.

 

[CerberusGate]

in some alternative Universe it's still a jungle

Seriously though, why couldn't Cyrodiil remain a tropical jungle? It would have been way cooler and more interesting than the atypical medieval fantasy land we got in Oblivion. The stuff they wrote about it in the books was interesting to say the least.

 

[Greed]

Seriously though, why couldn't Cyrodiil remain a tropical jungle? It would have been way cooler and more interesting than the atypical medieval fantasy land we got in Oblivion. The stuff they wrote about it in the books was interesting to say the least.

Because it didn't make sense.

Cyrodiil being a jungle stems from TES1: Arena, in which the Imperial City was the ONLY city in Cyrodiil, and it was surrounded by endless jungle.

Obviously, the entire idea that the center of a massive continent spanning empire would be a city located in the middle of hundreds of miles of jungle doesn't make a lick of sense, so in Daggerfall, Redugard(which had the first edition of the pocket guide), and Morrowind, they added more and more cities and villages to Cyrodiil in the lore.

By the time they got to Oblivion they realized that it being a jungle, when it not only has this massive capital city, as well as numerous other large cities and villages, all of which would have logically cut down most of the trees around them for lumber, just didn't add up anymore. So they changed it into something that did.

They then added the lore about Tiber Septim using CHIM + The Thu'um to alter Cyrodiil as a lore reason for the change.

 

[CerberusGate]

Obviously, the entire idea that the center of a massive continent spanning empire would be a city located in the middle of hundreds of miles of jungle doesn't make a lick of sense, so in Daggerfall, Redugard(which had the first edition of the pocket guide), and Morrowind, they added more and more cities and villages to Cyrodiil in the lore.

Ignored Member, you do realise cities are capable of existing in jungles right? Their cultures and practices may differ from traditional medieval fantasy but it would have meant a lot more work would have gone into fleshing out such a civilisation that has adapted to jungle life and a tropical setting.

Oblivion could have been far more complex and intriguing if they did go that route but as established, Beth opted out from a more thought-provoking setting for the sake of ease.

 

[Greed]

Ignored Member, you do realise cities are capable of existing in jungles right?.

Yes... why would you think otherwise?

Their cultures and practices may differ from traditional medieval fantasy but it would have meant a lot more work would have gone into fleshing out such a civilisation that has adapted to jungle life and a tropical setting.

Not really. It would just require different textures/models then the ones we got in-game. It wouldn't be harder work by any means.

If anything it would have been easier because they could have abused the speedtree program, far more then they already did in base Oblivion, as the jungle would have covered much more of Cyrodiil then the forests do already. There would have been tons less environmental work needed since there would just be jungle everywhere.

Oblivion could have been far more complex and intriguing if they did go that route but as established

Except it really wouldn't have been though. Instead of NPcs playing generic farming animations on the farms we got in-game, it would be those same NPCs doing those same generic farming animations on farms of rice.

Beth opted out from a more thought-provoking setting for the sake of ease.

Whatever baseless conspiracy helps you sleep better at night I guess.

 

[Dr Fallout]

1. What?
2. I already showed you how, by better integration of the metapoint into the environment rather then NPCs dialogue. And what you described about Oblivion's dialogue system is what makes it better. Instead of these encyclopedic answers, that don't resemble human speech, that Morrowind gives out. Oblivion actually has people talk more like people(except those god awful radiant conversations between NPCs), giving you shorter, more realistic sounding answers, and then expecting you to go read a book if you want to learn more.
3. As I pointed out, what you said is contradictory because she does in fact say what you said she doesn't.
4. But thats not true. You are the dragonborn before the Greybeards even call you. you are the dragonborn since game start. You only discover you are the dragonborn later.
5. And again, your ignoring the point that all of Morrowind's dialogue is like that. Everything NPCs bring up is delivered in the same way.
6. Actually, its according to Kurt Khuulman as well, who is the project lead on TES games, and is the guy who made up most of the crazy lore alongside Kirkbride back in the Morrowind days.

1. You turned a point on how many NPCs say it to how wikipedia like the dialogue is. Yeah, I was confused too.
2. No you haven't! You've shown a couple of examples, but you didn't actually describe HOW they integrate the metapoint better apart from stating that they do and pointing out vague ways that they may or may not do (like through books, notes, etc yet you haven't shown them in action), which is something that pretty much every game does and isn't special. Here's a simple question. HOW does Dragonborn get across the fact that Mirrak is basically the first dragonborn?
3. No it doesn't... she doesn't say you're the ACTUAL Chosen one. Do I really have to go back and put certain words in bold so you understand it more? When I said actual, it means that she doesn't say you're the real deal, the one and only true Nerevarine incarnation, the big cheese, THE Nerevarine. She just says you're a possible incarnation IF you continue on.
4. Yes, technically you're the Dragonborn but what if you never went and killed the Dragon, what if you never went to Whiterun and helped them, but moved to Solitude got married and owned an inn? Technically you would be the Dragonborn, but until you do what the mainquest tells you, you're not REALLY the Dragonborn. Every Elder Scrolls game forces you to an area, quest or NPC that reveals a part of the meta-point (Parrthunax and the Grey Beards). If you take the incarnation thing literally (you have that option) then it's the exact same.
5. What? Every NPC brings up the prophecy being false the same way? But that's bullshit...
6. Nice.

 

[CerberusGate]

If anything it would have been easier because they could have abused the speedtree program, far more then they already did in base Oblivion, as the jungle would have covered much more of Cyrodiil then the forests do already. There would have been tons less environmental work needed since there would just be jungle everywhere.

Not really. The buildings have to be altered to suit the climate (not as many medieval castles but possibly more Oriental styled buildings) and outfits would differ with the climate in mind. A lot of general NPC behaviour would have to be altered to suit such a setting and climate.

To render all they described here as non-canon is a real shame:

The Colovians[annot 6] today still possess much of the frontier spirit of their ancestors. They are uncomplicated, self-sufficient, hearty, and extremely loyal to one another. Whenever the East would tremble under the weakness of a leader, the Colovians would withdraw unto themselves, always believing they were keeping the national spirit safe until the storm passed. They realize that the Nibenay Valley is the heart of the Empire and the cultural center of its civilization, but it is a fragile center that only can be held together by the strength of character of its Emperor. When he falters, so do the Colovians. Yet when he is mighty, like Tiber Septim, they are his legions. Today, West Cyrodiils make up the majority of the soldiers in the Ruby Ranks. The Colovian nobility, all officers of the Imperial Legions or its West Navy, do not allow themselves the great expenditure of courtly life as is seen in the capital city. They prefer immaculate uniforms and stark standards hanging from the ceiling of their austere cliff-fortresses; to this day, they become a little perplexed[annot 7] when they must visit the grandly decorated assault of color that is the Emperor's Palace.

By contrast, the Eastern people of Cyrodiil relish in garish costumes, bizarre tapestries, tattoos, brandings, and elaborate ceremony. Closer to the wellspring of civilization, they are more given to philosophy and the evolution of ancient traditions. The Nibenese find the numinous in everything around them, and their different cults are too numerous to mention (the most famous are the Cult of the Ancestor-Moth, the Cult of Heroes, the Cult of Tiber Septim, and the Cult of Emperor Zero). To the Colovians, the ancestor worship and esoteric customs of the East can often be bizarre. Akaviri dragon-motifs are found in all quarters, from the high minaret bridges of the Imperial City to the paper hako skiffs that villagers use to wing their dead down the rivers. Thousands of workers ply the rice fields after the floodings, or clear the foliage of the surrounding jungle in the alternate seasons. Above them are the merchant-nobility, the temple priests and cult leaders, and the age-old aristocracy of the battlemages..

Refayj's famous declaration, "There is but one city in the Imperial Province,--" may strike the citizens of the Colovian west as mildly insulting, until perhaps they hear the rest of the remark, which continues, "--but one city in Tamriel, but one city in the World; that, my brothers, is the city of the Cyrodiils." From the shore it is hard to tell what is city and what is Palace, for it all rises from the islands of the lake towards the sky in a stretch of gold. Whole neighborhoods rest on the jeweled bridges that connect the islands together. Gondolas and river-ships sail along the watery avenues of its flooded lower dwellings. Moth-priests walk by in a cloud of ancestors; House Guards hold exceptionally long daikatanas crossed at intersections, adorned with ribbons and dragon-flags; and the newly arrived Western legionnaires sweat in the humid air. The river mouth is tainted red from the tinmi soil of the shore, and river dragons rust their hides in its waters. Across the lake the Imperial City continues, merging into the villages of the southern red river and ruins left from the Interregnum.

The Emperor's Palace is a crown of sun rays, surrounded by his magical gardens. One garden path is known as Green Emperor Road-here, topiaries of the heads of past Emperors have been shaped by sorcery and can speak. When one must advise Tiber Septim, birds are drawn to the hedgery head, using their songs as its voice and moving its branches for the needed expressions.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_First_Edition:_Cyrodiil

Except it really wouldn't have been though. Instead of NPcs playing generic farming animations on the farms we got in-game, it would be those same NPCs doing those same generic farming animations on farms of rice.

If it meant playing a different setting from a generic medieval fantasy setting, I would be happy with it. Heck, I'd be a lot kinder to Oblivion if that was the case (and I don't really hate Oblivion, I just think it has a lot of wasted potential).

Whatever baseless conspiracy helps you sleep better at night I guess.

How witty of you going for the baseless conspiracy remark, I am free to speculate why Bethesda choose to not make the jungle setting and express my speculation even if it is not true. It makes you look more like a shill if anything for being this defensive over Bethesda's decision to not make the jungle Cyrodiil.

 

[Greed]

snip

At this point I really don't know what you want anymore.

You keep asking me to show you how they do it, I did, and you just keep saying that doesn't count, and for me to show you.

Like, what do you want specifically? Because I am honestly confused.

How do I show a book in action? its a book, you just find it in the game world and read it.

Not really. The buildings have to be altered to suit the climate (not as many medieval castles but possibly more Oriental styled buildings) and outfits would differ with the climate in mind. A lot of general NPC behaviour would have to be altered to suit such a setting and climate.

Again, that would just be making different models/textures instead of the models.textures they did make. It wouldn't have been more work, it would have been different work.

To render all they described here as non-canon is a real shame

You are aware Bethesda has said since the get go that the pocket guide is, and was always, 100% bullshit written by Imperial shills?

Like, you don't really think that obviously self aggrandizing bullshit is true? Do you really believe the Pocket Guide when it says that Altmer kill 9 out of 10 of their children in the name of genetic purity?

If it meant playing a different setting from a generic medieval fantasy setting, I would be happy with it.

So now you want a generic Asian MMO setting?

It makes you look more like a shill if anything for being this defensive over Bethesda's decision to not make the jungle Cyrodiil.

I'm not even being defensive. I'm just trying to point out why they changed it.

What is with you people and your breakneck dash to label anyone who doesn't just go "everything Bethesda does 24/7 365 is terrible" a shill?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Well
1. Whats the point of power armor in DT if leather armor + chems and perks can match it as well? Its possible to achieve the same thing in NV.

2. The DR cap in Fallout 3 is 85%. The single suit of T-51b power armor in the game will only get you to 60, and even with the 1 rank of toughness(which adds + 10), and Barkskin(which adds +5) you will still wont reach the DR cap. And that is disregarding the fact no merchant can repair the suit to 100%, meaning you can never have it at max DR. The only way to reach max DR in Fallout 3 without power armor is to just spam Med-X(+25) all the time(and that requires massive hording, spamming the use of it, and seeking chem addition cures if you haven't taken the perk), or by exploiting Nerd Rage(+50). both of which are playstyles that require a lot of micromanaging.

3. Your point about Geckos only shows another flaw in your reasoning. If PA is supposed to be so great, how are Geckos damaging your at all? Even with critical hits, a Gecko just has small teeth, and some claws, and should be doing no damage to your PA. You went from "PA should be able to deflect all this damage because logic!" to "PA should allow you to be damaged by things it logically shouldn't if game magic is involved"

All you have really shown is that Fallout 1/2 had poor internal consistency(mechanics wise), and that Fallout 3 and later games needed to limit how much of a chem you could take in a certain amount of time to prevent things like Med-X spam, as well as introducing a timer on things like Nerd Rage that only let it activate once every X seconds.

1: Uhm you can't reach power armour levels of DT with leather armour and such? You can get DR from chems, and a little more DT, but nowhere near enough. And who's to stop you from using those chems and perks WITH power armour?

Did you ever actually fucking use power armour to tank anything? Leather armour won't save your skin from a deathclaw, but at least power armour can allow you to take a couple more hits.

2: First off, I reached the cap of DR with the winterised power armour, and combat armour, via getting all the perks I could to buff my tankiness (Cyborg, pit warrior, etc).

So its obvious you never played the fucking game, just looked at the wiki.

Come back when you speak the truth.

3: Its a gecko which ate fucking radiation, or breathes fire.

Make this clear. BREATHING...FIRE.

And who's to say they don't get a lucky hit in? A good hit to the head can cause a concussion, or a good hit to the joints could cause pain and suffering.

Critical hits are an issue with burstfire guns in fallout 1-2, but single hit crits are fine.

In NV/3, medX isn't even that powerful, nor is nerd rage.

Because DR is lazy as shit, it resulted in the player tanking 90 hits from a deathclaw in FO3, while even the mightiest warriors can only take maybe 10 from deathclaws in FONV.

You can maybe tank some more if you take medX and other DR drugs, but that's excluding such buffs, which by default, FO3 lacks, due to it using DR as normal armour.

 

[CerberusGate]

Again, that would just be making different models/textures instead of the models.textures they did make. It wouldn't have been more work, it would have been different work.

Dodging the point, I see. It would be different work (and not a lot of change in effort) but a good kind of different.

You are aware Bethesda has said since the get go that the pocket guide is, and was always, 100% bullshit written by Imperial shills?

Like, you don't really think that obviously self aggrandizing bullshit is true? Do you really believe the Pocket Guide when it says that Altmer kill 9 out of 10 of their children in the name of genetic purity?

This was written when Bethesda wanted to make their setting distinct from generic medieval fantasy settings. They succeeded with Morrowind. So if they did make the contents of pocket guide true, it would have made the setting even more fascinating.

So now you want a generic Asian MMO setting?

With Bethesda's triple-A funding and production levels, yes.

It would be good to see and explore an Asian-esque setting.

What is with you people and your breakneck dash to label anyone who doesn't just go "everything Bethesda does 24/7 365 is terrible" a shill?

I don't call everyone who does not hate Bethesda as Bethesda shills. Just you.

Some people here are alright with Bethesda and despite the mocking they get, they are alright in discussions and can balance their love with critical though. Phipps is alright with Bethesda but can call them out if they do have faults while not needing to be excessively defensive and for all of my flack at Bethesda if they do change their anti-consumer ways and produce games at Morrowind's level (or better), I am still open to accepting them.

Your behaviour on the forums and in discussions (dismissing points that oppose you, nitpicking on other games to support your points instead of relying on the merits of your points, making up outright baseless lies that you refuse to acknowledge as false even when your dishonesty is disproven etc) makes you deserving of the title 'shil'.

 

[Greed]

Dodging the point, I see. It would be different work (and not a lot of change in effort) but a good kind of different

This was written when Bethesda wanted to make their setting distinct from generic medieval fantasy settings. They succeeded with Morrowind. So if they did make the pocket guide true, it would have made the setting even more fascinating.

With Bethesda's triple-A funding and production levels, yes.

Your behaviour on the forums and in discussions (dismissing points that oppose you, nitpicking on other games to support your points instead of relying on the merits of your points, making up outright baseless lies that you refuse to acknowledge as false even when your dishonesty is disproven etc) makes you deserving of the title 'shil'.

The original point you made was that it would require more work, I pointed out how it wouldn't. that's not doging the point, that's you moving goalposts... again.

No, Bethesda never had any desire for some ultra distinct setting for every region in TES. Morrowind isn't even that fantastic itself. Telvanni are just reskinned druids. Redoran are a reskinned paladin order, and the Hlalau are just reskinned merchant guild. Nothing about Morrowind is any different then any other fantasy game besides the superficial design of things, such as mushroom treehouses instead of normal treehouses for its druids.

Isn't this the same Bethesda people frequently slam for poor graphics, stiff animations, and repetitive dungeons? Why would you want that?

I honestly want to know what you are talking about.

 

[CerberusGate]

Spoiler

The original point you made was that it would require more work, I pointed out how it wouldn't. that's not doging the point, that's you moving goalposts... again.

Alright, I managed to replicate your behavior to a startling degree of accuracy. Couldn't care less

No, Bethesda never had any desire for some ultra distinct setting for every region in TES. Morrowind isn't even that fantastic itself. Telvanni are just reskinned druids. Redoran are a reskinned paladin order, and the Hlalau are just reskinned merchant guild. Nothing about Morrowind is any different then any other fantasy game besides the superficial design of things, such as mushroom treehouses instead of normal treehouses for its druids.

Isn't this the same Bethesda people frequently slam for poor graphics, stiff animations, and repetitive dungeons? Why would you want that?

I'd rather have a setting that felts alien and encouraged exploration to understand it, that has depth and norms that don't fall under usual expectations. I want the detail Bethesda had in Morrowind that I feel is lacking in Oblivion and Skyrim. I want the kind of effort they put into Morrowind again.

With retrospect, you could pick up the cliches in Morrowind but it does not change the fact that the setting's unique visuals and depth of the setting was present. The game could go into detail into the laws, politics, practices, customs and traditions of the people since Bethesda even admitted in an interview that they went all out in Morrowind. The fact you would put down Morrowind so that you can make Oblivion and Skyrim look good in comparison is just sad. Let Skyrim and Oblivion stand on their own merits.

I honestly want to know what you are talking about.

The fact you can ask me this even when you come across as a Bethesda shil gives me the impression you are one of those people who started with Skyrim and can only look at the older games with eye-rolling irony and I couldn't care less if you are one of those older gamers who started with older TES games (in fact, that makes this even worse for you)...

I'm done talking to you on this. Go make your own spam thread about your 'points'.

From this latest bit of Greed troll-baiting, I can advise people in this thread to use the ignore button on Greed and let it rot in its own echo chamber of misconceptions and falsehoods.

 

[BigGuyCIA]

Because it didn't make sense.

Cyrodiil being a jungle stems from TES1: Arena, in which the Imperial City was the ONLY city in Cyrodiil, and it was surrounded by endless jungle.

Obviously, the entire idea that the center of a massive continent spanning empire would be a city located in the middle of hundreds of miles of jungle doesn't make a lick of sense, so in Daggerfall, Redugard(which had the first edition of the pocket guide), and Morrowind, they added more and more cities and villages to Cyrodiil in the lore.

By the time they got to Oblivion they realized that it being a jungle, when it not only has this massive capital city, as well as numerous other large cities and villages, all of which would have logically cut down most of the trees around them for lumber, just didn't add up anymore. So they changed it into something that did.

They then added the lore about Tiber Septim using CHIM + The Thu'um to alter Cyrodiil as a lore reason for the change.

So it makes more sense that Tiber Septim essentially terraformed the place into a basin?

The decision to make it less jungly and more open was due to technology and developmental issues - of that I'm almost certain of. 2006 hardware would have melted with Bethesda's gamebryo engine trying to render all of that jungle. Additionally, Microsoft fucked up back in 2005 when they were on the cusp of launching the 360. Bethesda didn't really get the chance to optimize the game on the 360 until 6 months out to launch. So, they came up with the ham-fisted lore explanation.

Either way, the races of TES are a product of their own homeland - they are adapted to the environment. It would have been infinitely more interesting to see a dense jungle pocketed with city-states. The Imperial citizens would have been naturally adapted to that sort of environment. Remember, we're talking about a universe where Vivec managed duality and became half-female, half-male. It's well within the boundaries of Morrowind's internal lore consistency.

What is with you people and your breakneck dash to label anyone who doesn't just go "everything Bethesda does 24/7 365 is terrible" a shill?

You're really asking that question on a forum that absolutely despises Bethesda for turning a beloved franchise into a hiking/looting simulator?

 

[Greed]

The fact you can ask me this even when you come across as a Bethesda shil gives me the impression you are one of those people who started with Skyrim and can only look at the older games with eye-rolling irony and I couldn't care less if you are one of those older gamers who started with older TES games (in fact, that makes this even worse for you)...

Actually, I started with Daggerfall. Morrowind is still my favorite TES game(though, not for its gameplay), tied with Skyrim. I really just don't get what you are talking about.

With retrospect, you could pick up the cliches in Morrowind but it does not change the fact that the setting's unique visuals and depth of the setting was present. The game could go into detail into the laws, politics, practices, customs and traditions of the people since Bethesda even admitted in an interview that they went all out in Morrowind. The fact you would put down Morrowind so that you can make Oblivion and Skyrim look good in comparison is just sad. Let Skyrim and Oblivion stand on their own merits..

Where are you getting the idea that I am putting Morrowind down to make the other games look better?

I am putting Morrowind down because, as a game, its honestly pretty bad.

I'd rather have a setting that felts alien and encouraged exploration to understand it, that has depth and norms that don't fall under usual expectations. I want the detail Bethesda had in Morrowind that I feel is lacking in Oblivion and Skyrim. I want the kind of effort they put into Morrowind again.

But Morrowind DID dall under usuall expectations
-The Telvani were typical hermit mages, who hated interact with people, and usually just locked themselves away i ntheir tree houses
-The Redorn were a typical knightly class, who were based around the ideals of honor
-The Hlaalu were typical merhcants, scheme behind the backs of everyone to get the best deals
-All the natives were typical natives who hated everyone who was an outsider because outsider

 

[CerberusGate]

The decision to make it less jungly and more open was due to technology and developmental issues - of that I'm almost certain of. 2006 hardware would have melted with Bethesda's gamebryo engine trying to render all of that jungle. Additionally, Microsoft fucked up back in 2005 when they were on the cusp of launching the 360. Bethesda didn't really get the chance to optimize the game on the 360 until 6 months out to launch. So, they came up with the ham-fisted lore explanation.

I have the feeling that was why they retconned the jungle setting out of Oblivion (but then again, all I can really do is speculate). Tech back in 2006 would have suffered trying to render jungles of that density and size though tech nowadays probably can.

You're really asking that question on a forum that absolutely despises Bethesda for turning a beloved franchise into a hiking/looting simulator?

Like I said, ignore Greed there. It seems content on being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian even if it results in making up falsehoods at times.

I don't even feel like replying to it even if it changes its tone due to how defensive it gets over opposing points.