Aliens Colonial Marines - saddest shit ever?

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
My friend (and, I saw, other people in other forums) think that the xenomorphs in Aliens are "too careless", "they don't care for their self preservation", "they throw themselves to the enemy", "they don't employ any particular hunting tactics" and so on, always with the stated implication that the xenomorph in alien wasn't any of that.

Which, as I said, it wasn't. It's the slasher format of the movie (and maybe faulty memory?) that makes him look that way. He was certainly intelligent, but in that movie he act exactly the same way the xenomorphs do in Aliens.
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Yeah ... thats because ... you konw they are movie MONSTERS. Why is it such a surprise if they act rather as monster then some typical enemy. After all we have no clue about how they think and reason anyway.

The fact that they killed the marines very quickly well shows me that they have enough inteligence or that they cut the power, they cut the power man! How they cut the power, they are animals!. I mean we never seen how many of the creatures got really killed in the end. How they divide their force and resources. I dont think the movie shows enough to tell us here what level of inteligence they have, if they are capable of military tactics, if they are not better then ants, or if they are even capable of abstraction.

I mean we should not forget that in Aliens it is the first time the creatures actually deal with an military force of professional soldiers, the first Humans they meet have been colonists of which probably only a handfull had even arms and any military traing, if at all. They had never to deal with something like Centry guns before and probably no heavy weaponry. But I do agree they take a lot of casualties and never seem to consider if something is worth the trouble or not. So yes, as far as "human" tactics and military decisions go, they are quite ... brute almost dumb. They are however rather animalistic in their behaviour. But this also make sthem somewhat dangerous. They dont have some kind of moral or feelings, not in the traditional sense. They can lose 5 or 500 and they will still try to achieve their goals no matter the cost. An enemy you can not demoralize. You dont reason with them or do any diplomacy, there is no capitulation if they get to you youre food, that's why Ripley said "Nuke em from orbit, the only way to be sure". Would have been a pretty boring movie that way though - and how Avatar should have actually ended.

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
He was definitively sleeping. Ripley becomes aware of his presence because he "drops" his hand in the open and moves around a little. Ripley lets out a scream and flees in the closet while the xenomorphs placidly returns to the fetal position and doesn't move again until she blows air/steam in his face.
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How do you know? Its not like you could see its eyes closed ...

Also, as said, we do NOT know enough about its behaviour or inteligence to really tell how capable it is as far as the first movie goes. The only thing that is sure (and that is what the Android told) that it is extremly violent and hostile. And that it has probably no feelings or emotions.

You know the original idea for the end in the script was that Ripley would be killed and the last scene would be the vesel releasing an distress signal as soon it got in range of other ships.

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Wether he entered the pod out of sheer luck or because he undrstood the situation is an interesting question though.
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That would be indeed quite an coinsidence. As said. We have NO clue what level of inteligence the xenomorph has. It definitely is not human like which has not to mean much anyway. It is just speculation, but I would guess it was there on purpose knowing the ship will blow up.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I mean we should not forget that in Aliens it is the first time the creatures actually deal with an military force of professional soldiers, the first Humans they meet have been colonists of which probably only a handfull had even arms and any military traing, if at all. They had never to deal with something like Centry guns before and probably no heavy weaponry. But I do agree they take a lot of casualties and never seem to consider if something is worth the trouble or not. So yes, as far as "human" tactics and military decisions go, they are quite ... brute almost dumb.
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Not exactly. As I understand, their group behavior has more inertia (which is no surprise, by the definition of group behavior), but they do adapt. Taking casualties in the process of adaptation is not an issue for such species - it's just a feedback, those soldiers are expendable anyway.

So, my bet, in the case of being put against predators, xenos would take heavy casualties at first, but then they would adapt, changed tactics and predators would find their asses outnumbered and heavily kicked (in the most surprising way). All marines in Aliens were dead by the end of the movie, after all.
 
AnPyrrhic victory though isnt the best kind of strategy.

As said, I do agree that in human sense as far as tactics go they do lack something on the analytical side, far seeing planing as far as attacks go. But they definitely can and do adapt to their enemy.

Though xenomorph behaviour is rather predictable, they do everything only for breeding and that. They do not seem to have any other goals.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Yeah ... thats because ... you konw they are movie MONSTERS. Why is it such a surprise if they act rather as monster then some typical enemy. After all we have no clue about how they think and reason anyway.
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I think you don't understand what I'm saying. It's not how they act the problem, but that for some people they act differently between movies.

The fact that they killed the marines very quickly well shows me that they have enough inteligence or that they cut the power
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I agree with the latter, but the former? Come on, marines were scared shitless, outnumbered, mostly underpowered (pulse rifles were off in that battle), couldn't see an enemy they knew nothing about which also had incredible physical abilites. You don't need incredible intelligence to win in a battle like that. :P

How do you know? Its not like you could see its eyes closed ...
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-If it was hiding it left its hand dangling for no reason
-Moved the head directly towards Ripley (which screamed) with no reaction
-While Ripley scrambled to hide it returned calmy in the fetal position, complete with calm regular breathing

If that's not sleeping I don't know what it is...

You know the original idea for the end in the script was that Ripley would be killed and the last scene would be the vesel releasing an distress signal as soon it got in range of other ships.
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With the Alien using Ripley's voice, apparently. Luckily they scrapped it (if it was true).

That would be indeed quite an coinsidence.
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It depends. Was the pod nearby the place where Parker and Lambert were killed?
 
Combat looks like Mass Effect 1 combat, wich was very wonky. But anything is better than a run and gun scripted shooter.
 
A lot of you are (rightfully) upset at the final product that is A:CM. Maybe I can shed some light as to how it got the way it is.

This isn't because GBX didn't care, mind you. At a certain point, they couldn't risk changing ANYTHING that might cause them to fail certification or break some other system. And so, the product you see is what you get.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ... poor Gearbox! It all wasnt their fault! Evil evil companies they used to make the game for them did it! And YES! They do care! So much that it took them 6 years to make a game because it was always pushed to the side for other projects. Poor you are gearbox.

Eat dirt damnit for fucking up one of my favourite franchises.


Beyond gameplay, the story has been raised as an issue several times. I can't really comment without feeling bad beyond saying that the script was approved by 20th Century FOX, and that the rush to throw a playable product together came at the cost of the story. Campaign does a pretty bad job of explaining a lot of the questions raised at the start of the game, and so hopefully there will be DLC to flesh that out a bit better.

L o L

I am so glad I have not bought that PoS. Seriously. The games bad! BUT There is DLCS! OMG! You buy a car which is barrely working, but they will give some radio out that you can buy. That might fix something for you. Really. At this point Gearbox has NO right to ask or deamnd for anything. They want to change something? They want to REALLY do something for the fans? Well how about making the game how it looked back in the trailer? So delivering what you promised. of course for free. I think then we might start to talk about DLCs.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I am so glad I have not bought that PoS. Seriously. The games bad! BUT There is DLCS! OMG! You buy a car which is barrely working, but they will give some radio out that you can buy. That might fix something for you. Really. At this point Gearbox has NO right to ask or deamnd for anything. They want to change something? They want to REALLY do something for the fans? Well how about making the game how it looked back in the trailer? So delivering what you promised. of course for free. I think then we might start to talk about DLCs.
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Fxxing DLC :evil:
 
A:CM is the game that will put this franchise on ice for another decade. After AvP2's terrible Primal Hunt expansion and a handful of garbage Xbox games there was nothing for almost ten years. The AvP3 "reboot" by Rebellion, a couple cheap handhelds, and now A:CM is the final nail in this generation's coffin.

I will be absolutely shocked if Creative Assembly's unannounced Dead Space clone isn't quietly shitcanned by Sega.

It's interesting how much the AvP/Aliens game franchise parallels Fallout. Imagine if everything ended at FOBOS and NMA closed down forever. That's what happened to the AvP community in 2002. It became fragmented and unfocused for years. AvP3 was supposed to be like the New Vegas for old fans but ended up like another FOT. Then A:CM happens and it's FOBOS part 2. It's like the bizarro Fallout.
 
Well the fun part is that quite a lot of those developers say "we are true fans to the franchise!" but ... I somehow have my doubts about that statement. At least in some cases.
 
I am really not sure if an "Alien" RPG would have worked anyway ... without making it like Mass effect in the end.
 
It would have depended how the story was structured. Sure the aliens themselves would have been the immediate threat but with a little finesse and subtlety, Obsidian could have easily hidden a golden ending which required you to go off the beaten path, collect evidence and gear and then burn the corporate bastards with the evidence while staging your own death to give the corporate enforcers and other irritated parties (like bought politicos, sector generals, judges and such) the skip; ending with you riding to the sunset on your stolen (reported destroyed) ship with your loot (off the books bank accounts of this and that dirty corporate execs) and fake/alt identities; it could have been an epic story.
 
cronicler said:
It would have depended how the story was structured. Sure the aliens themselves would have been the immediate threat but with a little finesse and subtlety, Obsidian could have easily hidden a golden ending which required you to go off the beaten path, collect evidence and gear and then burn the corporate bastards with the evidence while staging your own death to give the corporate enforcers and other irritated parties (like bought politicos, sector generals, judges and such) the skip; ending with you riding to the sunset on your stolen (reported destroyed) ship with your loot (off the books bank accounts of this and that dirty corporate execs) and fake/alt identities; it could have been an epic story.
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According to Anthony Davis on the Codex it would have been all about perma-death and how to deal with the facehugged companions. Either put them in stasis, kill them, or keep them around until they inevitably birth another monstrosity.

I don't think the footage looked good at all, but it was pre-alpha and full of placeholder stuff, likely the math was still to be finalized etc. Would it have lived to its potential? I don't know, it's a wacky idea and Obsidian has never done shooting and action well. As it's canceled we'll never know.
 
WorstUsernameEver said:
According to Anthony Davis on the Codex it would have been all about perma-death and how to deal with the facehugged companions. Either put them in stasis, kill them, or keep them around until they inevitably birth another monstrosity.

I don't think the footage looked good at all, but it was pre-alpha and full of placeholder stuff, likely the math was still to be finalized etc. Would it have lived to its potential? I don't know, it's a wacky idea and Obsidian has never done shooting and action well. As it's canceled we'll never know.
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Yea, the combat gameplay has always been Obsidian's weak point but based on their combat work on AP, I think they could have produced an acceptable battle portion.

Add some other human (huggable) factions alongside your gang of misfits to poach characters from (Corp Security (+Corp Management), Corp Research, Corp Workers, Marine Security, Federal Investigators) and keep the aliens low key in the beginning to late midgame and then ramp it up to 7 or 8 scripted set piece battles vs hordes in a manner similar to how V:tM story played out.


Recon -> Corp espionage, Cover ups, and other more mundane time fillers -> Aliens start appearing/deeper corporate gambits -> Aliens nom nom on most of the humans and start hunting the survivors -> Stay alive, neutralize the traitor(s), extract and sterilize the place
 
That whole story about companions is giving me bad flashbacks of The Thing game.

I'd rather see something like Incubation in the Aliens universe.
 
yeah I disliked that part about The Thing. hey! Companion! *Testing it if hes some alien creature in disguise* nope! he is clear. 5 min. he is transforming. AWESOME!

As said. I have my doubts that an RPG would work in the Alien franchise. Not saying its impossible. But seriously. Not in this day. Not with this gaming industry.
 
I don't think Obsidian would really ruin the game's story. It's, well, Obsidian.

The footage is a bit wonky, but you have to take into account it's likely alpha or even pre-alpha, so it's a given that it will be sketchy and will lack proper voice acting and developed gameplay.

Alpha Protocol wasn't bad in the gameplay department, it just didn't explain that the game relies primarily on the character skill to determine accuracy with firearms, rather than player accuracy. Plus, it's a great RPG when it comes to C&C.
 
Tagaziel said:
The footage is a bit wonky, but you have to take into account it's likely alpha or even pre-alpha, so it's a given that it will be sketchy and will lack proper voice acting and developed gameplay.
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Pre-alpha apparently (got the link from C2B on the Obsidian forums, btw, and yeah, it's a post on the 'Dex).
 
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