Am I in the minority when I say I'm not bothered by Super Mutants in Fallout 3?

[Canagan]

Speaking on immersion in games, the best example of immersion into Fo1 I've had was when on one of my characters I went map clearing (as I usually do in when I have all my gear and skills kitted out) and I happened upon a world map region that, from the map, was just the ruins of some city. It wasn't a main location, like a settlement or anything, but just a big patch of arid and dead concrete wasteland. I went in from the world map to look around a bit, and what was there was literally nothing more than blasted and charred bricks and roads of the old world, half-covered in the dusty winds from beyond.

All that I saw there was my character, the dilapidated walls and forgotten roads of the bygone generation, and in that moment I knew I (my character) was truly alone in the wasteland. No bones, no raiders or tribals, no small town of farmers or even a passing caravan on their way to the Hub; nothing at all but the howling of the wind and the musical score droning on.

That feeling gave me more of a chill than anything, and was a good experience. So i agree, I call bulls*** on 2d not having immersion.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Fallout had it so that the location map matched whatever terrain was indicated on the overland map; a sad thing that Fallout 2 for some dumb reason lost this feature.

 

[PaxVenire]

Super Mutants on the East bother me a lot because they as well as FEV as a whole were very cool and unique for the original two games, given and intriguing and fleshed out backstory and frankly the explanation for them being on the East Coast is hamfisted at best and are stripped of their all their nuance in favor of something that could’ve been a whole new enemy type. I still think DC Super Mutants could’ve been replaced by those hillbillies in Point Lookout, they are also cannibalistic retards who are for some reason super tough to kill, even tougher than the F3 Supers, and way scarier of an enemy type to come across. The Point Lookout mutant people are more scary to me than Super Mutants in game. What bothers me most about Super Mutants in the Bethesda games is now that we have them on the East and West Coast, it leaves little to no imagination that the entire middle of America won’t have them. Same with the Brotherhood, if they are already trekking to the East Coast 26 years after the bombs fell for fuckall reason then it leaves little to no imagination of that the entirety of middle America won’t have them. If they make Fallout Chicago: there will be BOS and FEV. If they make Fallout Texas: there will be BOS and FEV. If they make Fallout New York or Mexico or Montana or Kansas: there will be BOS and FEV. It’s very annoying to me.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Super Mutants on the East bother me a lot because they as well as FEV as a whole were very cool and unique for the original two games...

 

[xxdemonxspawnnxx]

This is one of the reasons some fallout fans think fallout 1 has mediocre storyline. And this is the reason I hate fallout 3 so much, despite 3 have many great side quests, they reused too much of fallout 1 that there is nothing left for fallout 1 to stand unique. Even fo2 had spoilers about mutant threat in fo1. But 3 just went to the extent of completely depriving fallout 1 of it's substance.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

If they make Fallout Chicago: there will be BOS and FEV. If they make Fallout Texas: there will be BOS and FEV.

It’s funny you mention that because there are fallout games set in Chicago and Texas and they feature the BOS. Of course, we don’t like to talk about the Texas one

 

[Gizmojunk]

I didn't even know that it was set in Texas.

 

[Clowncarcrash]

I don’t mind the super mutants at all. It was a brand new installment in the franchise, you gotta have most of the iconic bits of the franchise. Like caps being the worst offender, but you’re gonna get millions of people exposed to Fallout (pun intended), so it makes sense to reintroduce everyone to whats possible in the franchise. I totally get people who think its creatively bankrupt, but I still think its fine.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Except Bethesda —re-introduced— products that have neither the gameplay, the atmosphere, nor even the proper settings of the original series... and they cherry picked isolated factions, items, and events from both that were not meant to be commonplace, or reused on a national scale.

They bank on Fallout's reputation, while delivering none of it in their new products. And they screwed up Harold.

 

[Clowncarcrash]

No, but that was never going to be the case. They took the toys and idea they liked and put it somewhere else to have their take on it. Regardless, their audience never saw the stuff that piqued their interest in the original games so it made sense to introduce the new people to those ideas.

 

[Ugly Kid]

No, but that was never going to be the case. They took the toys and idea they liked and put it somewhere else to have their take on it. Regardless, their audience never saw the stuff that piqued their interest in the original games so it made sense to introduce the new people to those ideas.

They could've reintroduced those elements in a way that made sense though, like perhaps if the game just took place closer to California.

 

[Gizmojunk]

No, but that was never going to be the case.

Sure it was; Interplay [IE. Hervé] was just an unconscionable idiot for selling it to them. There were better [and more deserving] hands willing to work on the IP than Bethesda.

Spoiler

They took the toys and idea they liked and put it somewhere else to have their take on it.

That was mistake #1. They defaced a with impunity. This is not something laudable.

Spoiler

 

[Clowncarcrash]

They could've reintroduced those elements in a way that made sense though, like perhaps if the game just took place closer to California.

Oh for sure, it makes sense but I think its interesting to explore other places in Fallout, especially areas with such important significance to the fallout universe. Although the obvious problem with that is that its a stretch to push any of the West Coast storyline/characters further. That is a double edged sword though, as that means Bethesda has a tougher time making bad canon decisions with those storylines too. Like the above poster who objected to how Bethesda handled Harold.

Sure it was; Interplay [IE. Hervé] was just an unconscionable idiot for selling it to them. There were better [snd more deserving] hands willing to work on the IP than Bethesda.

Spoiler

Right but I think thats inevitable because Interplay was a bad business, and the meritorious and deserving hands didn't fork over the cash. Thats life.

 

[Morgan_]

Thank god they sold it to Bethesda. It set us in the path to getting New Vegas.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Thank god they sold it to Bethesda. It set us in the path to getting New Vegas.

Seriously? Obsidian was founded mostly by ex-Black Isle staff. See... even the guys who were not part of Obsidian reached out to Bethesda as possible consultants—and were ignored. Do you think that would have happened with Obsidian?

...

I think the West Coast would have been fine, it they had left the East Coast mostly unreferenced. Now it's understandable that they had just paid for all of these West Coast assets, and were going to use their money's worth out of the IP... but their target audience [sadly not Fallout fans] had no exposure to the West Coast, and so it was wasted pearls, when it could have been any kind of candy sprinkles at all.

The [mud] Mirelurks were not a bad idea. Supermutants were not impossible—but should have been rare. Enclave should have been rarer than supermutants, or not used at all, and FEV should have been —at MOST— a small sample in a containment cylinder; used by the few Supermutants for a desperate attempt to reproduce. Their whole community could have been like another Broken Hills commune.

Bethesda's Vault nonsense was just that. The use of Jet & bottle caps were absurd. DC was not the middle of a desert before the war; with water merchants after it, paying their lot with scrips of crimped tin; DC has currency exchanges, banks, and a US Mint... even Bus Tokens are better than caps.

It was all just 'Me Too' usage of the IP, for FO3 —"I'm a Fallout game too!"; back before the term was appropriated.

 

[Morgan_]

Seriously? Obsidian was founded mostly by ex-Black Isle staff. See... even the guys who were not part of Obsidian reached out to Bethesda as possible consultants—and were ignored. Do you think that would have happened with Obsidian?

Yes. We got NV due to the Beth Soft deal. As to what would have happened if that fell through is anyones guess. The Beth deal did bring us the Vegas gem so it wasn’t all bad. It is the Tao. See good in bad.

 

[Clowncarcrash]

Seriously? Obsidian was founded mostly by ex-Black Isle staff. See... even the guys who were not part of Obsidian reached out to Bethesda as possible consultants—and were ignored. Do you think that would have happened with Obsidian?


I think the West Coast would have been fine, it they had left the East Coast mostly unreferenced. Now it's understandable that they had just paid for all of these West Coast assets, and were going to use their money's worth out of the IP... but their target audience [sadly not Fallout fans] had no exposure to the West Coast, and so it was wasted pearls, when it could have been any kind of candy sprinkles at all.

The [mud] Mirelurks were not a bad idea. Supermutants were not impossible—but should have been rare. Enclave should have been rarer than supermutants, or not used at all, and FEV should have been —at MOST— a small sample in a containment cylinder; used by the few Supermutants for a desperate attempt to reproduce. Their whole community could have been like another Broken Hills commune.

Bethesda's Vault nonsense was just that. The use of Jet & bottle caps were absurd. DC was not the middle of a desert before the war; with water merchants after it, paying their lot with scrips of crimped tin; DC has currency exchanges, banks, and a US Mint... even Bus Tokens are better than caps.

It was all just 'Me Too' usage of the IP, for FO3 —"I'm a Fallout game too!"; back before the term was appropriated.

Right, so those elements served a purpose to get those new fans to engage with series Fallout stuff. They took it east coast because Bethesda is on the East Coast. I think the East Coast vs West Coast divide makes Fallout as a series quite interesting.

And as I said, I think the change of venue benefitted you. If you didn't like what they did with Harold you probably wouldnt have liked what they'd have done to the West Coast.

 

[SquidWard]

Yes. We got NV due to the Beth Soft deal. As to what would have happened if that fell through is anyones guess. The Beth deal did bring us the Vegas gem so it wasn’t all bad. It is the Tao. See good in bad.

The problem with this is, we could have a better Fallout 3 that led to a following up 4 which would have been New Vegas but it would have been different. Cain did bid on getting Fallout back. If that happened and Troika never failed, it could have been much better. It could have also been bad. We’ll never know. I prefer to say, “at least we got New Vegas out of it all” rather than New Vegas would not have happened if it was not for Bethesda. It was a consolation prize in a way, one that new and old fans could tolerate or even enjoy.

I still firmly believe the major theme of letting go of the past was a meta comment to the old fans that this is the closest thing to a last hurrah we’ll ever get and it’s time to say goodbye.

 

[Clowncarcrash]

The problem with this is, we could have a better Fallout 3 that led to a following up 4 which would have been New Vegas but it would have been different. Cain did bid on getting Fallout back. If that happened and Troika never failed, it could have been much better. It could have also been bad. We’ll never know. I prefer to say, “at least we got New Vegas out of it all” rather than New Vegas would not have happened if it was not for Bethesda. It was a consolation prize in a way, one that new and old fans could tolerate or even enjoy.

I still firmly believe the major theme of letting go of the past was a meta comment to the old fans that this is the closest thing to a last hurrah we’ll ever get and it’s time to say goodbye.

Well regardless, I think a silver lining you could also push forward, is that certainly without Bethesda, I think a lot of people would think it'd be impossible to make a good Fallout game as the FPS-RPG hybrid the Bethesda titles are. Which led to Outer Worlds. I hope that franchise will one day be a worthy spiritual successor.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Right, so those elements served a purpose to get those new fans to engage with series Fallout stuff.

Except that they didn't... There is nothing but dubious use of nouns from Fallout in Bethesda's FO3. They used the name, but stripped out the [paramount] gameplay, and changed the setting from a 50's assumed future to a future obsessed with the 50's; quite a huge difference in both the remnant setting, and the mentality of the population.

A big deal too, is that the NPCs elect to live in squalor—200+ years later; unlike the Fallout NPCs the FO3 NPCs are not respectable, and do themselves diminish the already mistaken setting Bethesda has opted for.

Enclave & Brotherhood of Steel do not mean the same thing, and share elevated importance—and one of them was factionally dead in Fallout 2; the other was halfway there.
The mutants got the worst treatment all.

They sold on a famous name, but completely changed the product in a way that strips out the meaning and expectation of the brand name.

Like selling mint flavored herring free surströmming, or even strawberry flavored hazel nut bread spread as Vegemite. Both have a reputation that would not be fulfilled in these later products though they bear the names; just like FO3&4.

Spoiler

So... the —new fans— are fans of an unrelated product that is simply abusing the name for disingenuous use of the reputation; for sake of sales. Kids tend to prefer candy to broccoli. It's like offering broccoli made from candy marzipan... It's tastes great, but has only the similar appearance, and none of the taste (or nutrients) of the original.
It can't even be consumed like the original.