America proves itself to belong to the 3rd World. Again.

[Professor Danger!]

Which is schizophrenic. Dog fights are illegal, but profiting off of selling videos of it is? How fucked up is that?

It is fucked up.

Kinda like prostitution is (mostly) illegal yet pornography is legal.

 

[CloudlessDruid]

I know I have shown this before here haha, but its because I get astounded by how this matter is recurrent here. Americans always think of themselves of "citizens of the most fair and democratic of the world, where freedom of speech is totally put in exercise"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

Kinda like prostitution is (mostly) illegal yet pornography is legal.

Yeah. Prostitution should be legal, then this paradox would end.

 

[Professor Danger!]

I know I have shown this before here haha, but its because I get astounded by how this matter is recurrent here. Americans always think of themselves of "citizens of the most fair and democratic of the world, where freedom of speech is totally put in exercise"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

I also the love this reoccurring theme of Anti-American sentiment. It actually appears in the title of the *thread* this time. Which is kinda funny. How about you get animal abuse down to zero percent in your country, before you start bitching about others, as if your country is so much better (in general, that was all directed at you, RH).

 

[Tagaziel]

Are you a vegan?

I'm a vegetarian whever possible, yes.

Bill of Rights anyone?

Legislation. Compilation of several constitutional amendments.

The First Amendment is in the Bill of Rights. That's not legislation. You know, for a guy who repeatedly stated healthcare was a human right, you don't seem to care for his right to Free Speech.

Yes, it is. Bill of Rights is just a piece of legislation like any other. Sure, it's high level and concers the foundations of the state, but it's not some holy text.

Really, the problem here is the perception that the Founding Fathers were instruments of God, sent to enact the holiest of holy texts, the Constitution of the United States.

From a technical standpoint, that's rather amusing. You have a country running on a blueprint that's nearing its 240th anniversary. That doesn't mean it's that good, it means that there's an unhealthy cult of the Constitution.

Which, funnily enough, is very similiar to how the Qu'ran is treated by islamic fundamentalists.

It's true that racism and things like this are horrible. They're done by cruel and barbarous people. However, the U.S. cannot do anything to stop it legally. The same thing that blocks the U.S. from censoring things like that incident with Reuters also prevents it from outlawing hate speech.

Yes it can do something. All it takes is revising the Constitution, which is long overdue. A lot has happened in the 19th and 20th centuries and the Constitution doesn't reflect this - it is still a document written for thirteen colonies with no standing armies and banded together with very flimsy strings.

Hardly appropriate for the world's dominant superpower.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Which is schizophrenic. Dog fights are illegal, but profiting off of selling videos of it is? How fucked up is that?

It is fucked up.

Kinda like prostitution is (mostly) illegal yet pornography is legal.

Do we have really always to search for excuses and incidents that prove how fucked up certain situations are ?

Point is that making profit or animal torture is a sick thing. Anyone that cant agree with that is a questionable character in my eyes. As simple as that.

Porn and Prostitution are a borderline situation. But again here you have at least human beeings which voluntary choose their jobs if we are talking about the "simple" prostitution and pornography hands down its a shady buisness but if legal it is a buisness notheless where people have at least the chance to get their rights. Torture of animals is a sign of sadism. And I cant see how anyone would want people to make profit out of that since it has nothing to do with free spech anymore. I mean no one would feel the need to defend people selling snuff movies for example in the name of free spech. Animals cant speak for themself and thus need protection. Just like children, or mentaly handicaped people for example which cant speak for themself as well and thus cant assert their rights from alone.

 

[Professor Danger!]

Are you a vegan?

I'm a vegetarian whever possible, yes.

Bill of Rights anyone?

Legislation. Compilation of several constitutional amendments.

The First Amendment is in the Bill of Rights. That's not legislation. You know, for a guy who repeatedly stated healthcare was a human right, you don't seem to care for his right to Free Speech.

Yes, it is. Bill of Rights is just a piece of legislation like any other. Sure, it's high level and concers the foundations of the state, but it's not some holy text.

Really, the problem here is the perception that the Founding Fathers were instruments of God, sent to enact the holiest of holy texts, the Constitution of the United States.

From a technical standpoint, that's rather amusing. You have a country running on a blueprint that's nearing its 240th anniversary. That doesn't mean it's that good, it means that there's an unhealthy cult of the Constitution.

Which, funnily enough, is very similiar to how the Qu'ran is treated by islamic fundamentalists.

It's true that racism and things like this are horrible. They're done by cruel and barbarous people. However, the U.S. cannot do anything to stop it legally. The same thing that blocks the U.S. from censoring things like that incident with Reuters also prevents it from outlawing hate speech.

Yes it can do something. All it takes is revising the Constitution, which is long overdue. A lot has happened in the 19th and 20th centuries and the Constitution doesn't reflect this - it is still a document written for thirteen colonies with no standing armies and banded together with very flimsy strings.

Hardly appropriate for the world's dominant superpower.

1.) Okay. So are you angry at people when they eat shit like chicken, steak, or food that comes from animals that humans kill?

2.) So are you an anarchist? You sound like you're pretty against all laws then. Or is it just American law?

Also, Good job comparing American citizens to Islamic fundamentalists. Because people following basic laws (which i'm sure aren't even the most original laws, so get rid of them everywhere, right? Or is it just America again?) is the same as people who use violence and fear to promote their religion.

 

[Dragula]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoosexuality_and_the_law#National_laws

 

[CloudlessDruid]

I also the love this reoccurring theme of Anti-American sentiment. It actually appears in the title of the *thread* this time. Which is kinda funny. How about you get animal abuse down to zero percent in your country, before you start bitching about others, as if your country is so much better (in general, that was all directed at you, RH).

at least our citizens have full knowledge our country isn't the best country of the world, and most of us really don't claim that.

And at least my country has been doing some pretty awesome improvements in all aspects, after your country basically manipulated and sucked most of latin american countries for decades. On the other hand, you country is economically broken, and now you guys are accepting laws that any civilized people would be ashamed of seeing in theirs country. And yet you come to here to defend it haha.

 

[Professor Danger!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoosexuality_and_the_law#National_laws

Fun. I hope no one on here is knocking America from a country that apparently allows people to fuck animals.

Of course, i'm sure no one on here will knock those countries when there's good 'ol America Sucks! argument fun going on.

at least our citizens have full knowledge our country isn't the best country of the world, and most of us really don't claim that.

Are you still here? Where are your stats and documentation to support your ignorant claim that no one in American understands what is happening in America. But keeping making statements equivalent to "America is stuuuupid". That get's people to listen to you.

 

[Dragula]

It's legal in the US also.

"3 states had laws against zoosexuality that were declared unconstitutional by state courts and subsequently removed: Arkansas, Montana and North Carolina[37]. Because of this, these are the only states where zoosexuality could be considered legal."

 

[Crni Vuk]

2.) So are you an anarchist? You sound like you're pretty against all laws then. Or is it just American law?

read Tagurzels posts carefully please. He is far away from beeing an anarchist.

I know I have shown this before here haha, but its because I get astounded by how this matter is recurrent here. Americans always think of themselves of "citizens of the most fair and democratic of the world, where freedom of speech is totally put in exercise"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

Kinda like prostitution is (mostly) illegal yet pornography is legal.

Yeah. Prostitution should be legal, then this paradox would end.

I know what you want to say about that. But you would be surprised how many times it occured in european nations as well.

Ever heard about Gaullism ? The Protests of 1968 (regrading Gemany) where even a student got killed and the police officer got away with it.

 

[OakTable]

You sort of danced around that issue merrily by ignoring my counterpoint to your argument (that you preach healthcare as a right but ignore free speech as a right even though universal healthcare is also "legislation") and instead stating that America's constitution is outdated and should be rewritten even though it is perfectly fine and has worked for 240 years.

 

[Professor Danger!]

It's legal in the US also.

"3 states had laws against zoosexuality that were declared unconstitutional by state courts and subsequently removed: Arkansas, Montana and North Carolina[37]. Because of this, these are the only states where zoosexuality could be considered legal."

Well good. Then how about we add those three states to that nice list of full countries that allow animal sexual abuse, instead of all the blanket statements about how America as a whole is abusing animals and just a good 'ol shithole. Especially when i'm sure all the other countries that are represented in this thread are pretty much on the same level.

Seriously, what the fuck is all up with this holier-than-thou bullshit. Seriously, i'm an American and I completely understand that my country is a shithole and has a lot of problems. But I also like certain aspects of it, just like other people love/hate their own countries. Until someone shows me that their country is a wonderful Utopia, I can't even take this bullshit seriously.

 

[Dragula]

I linked that article just to prove that other countries are just as demented. Though, American slaughter industry are amongst the worst in the world. But then again, Ireland are abusing greyhounds and other animals so they are no better.

 

[CloudlessDruid]

I am not saying that no one in America understand what is happening in America, I am just saying this law is stupid, because as you can see, every non-american here thinks the same, and I'm stating that, as even you are here to prove, americans don't understand their country has flaws, and whanever someone appoint a flaw in America, American gets pissed, because they apparently can't deal with reality.

Enough with the national bashing. This discussing just came because this matter, as all the others, have Americans defending points which can't really be defended, since they are stupid.

know what you want to say about that. But you would be surprised how many times it occured in european nations as well.

Ever heard about Gaullism ? The Protests of 1968 (regrading Gemany) where even a student got killed and the police officer got away with it

yeah crni, I know that. But I really think that most of Europeans are quite aware of that, while most Americans aren't.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Or spain, Serbia etc. etc.

Doesnt mean it makes it a better situation. In kongo they have children killing and raping other villagers. Doesnt mean its the right thing to do. I know its a exagerated example, but just to make a point

 

[Professor Danger!]

I linked that article just to prove that other countries are just as demented. Though, American slaughter industry are amongst the worst in the world. But then again, Ireland are abusing greyhounds and other animals so they are no better.

Bingo. America is definitely not the only country here with problems. It's just that people point it out as if they are. Maybe people from other countries should work on stopping it there, before they start pointing fingers and throwing stones while the same stuff is going on there.

But I guess ignorance is bliss mixed with a little dissing other people who they are no better than makes some people feel better about themselves. *shrugs*

I am not saying that no one in America understand what is happening in America, I am just saying this law is stupid, because as you can see, every non-american here thinks the same, and I'm stating that, as even you are here to prove, americans don't understand their country has flaws, and whanever someone appoint a flaw in America, American gets pissed, because they apparently can't deal with reality.

Enough with the national bashing. This discussing just came because this matter, as all the others, have Americans defending points which can't really be defended, since they are stupid.

So calling Americans stupid is a great way to debate, eh? I think you lost every point you've made by resorting to petty name calling to try to get it across. How about fixing your system before you start bitching about others.

I bet you'd have a problem if I started listing every law in your country as "stupid".

 

[Crni Vuk]

we point out the american problems here right now cause that is what the thread is adressing it. If someone will open a topic about Spain and how their farmers kill (they hang them) old female dogs. Then we will discuss how wrong that is.

Again. What others do or dont do is no excuse.

 

[Tagaziel]

You sort of danced around that issue merrily by ignoring my counterpoint to your argument (that you preach healthcare as a right but ignore free speech as a right even though universal healthcare is also "legislation") and instead stating that America's constitution is outdated and should be rewritten even though it is perfectly fine and has worked for 240 years.

I've never denied that free speech is a right. I contest the notion that free speech is some kind of God-give inalienable right that overrides the rights of everyone else. It's a right like any other.

The only inalienable right is human dignity.

1.) Okay. So are you angry at people when they eat shit like chicken, steak, or food that comes from animals that humans kill?

If I say no, then you'll call me a hypocrite and use that to deem all my points invalid.

However, the problem with your reasoning is that you're equating killing animals for nourishment with making animals kill and mail each other for nothing more than idle enjoyment. Which is pretty fucked up.

Ask again, this time taking this problem into account.

2.) So are you an anarchist? You sound like you're pretty against all laws then. Or is it just American law?

Now you're trying to paint me as an obsessed anti-American. Really, basing your argumentation on ad hominems is a weak method of discussing.

I'm not an anarchist. I believe in fair, well written laws governing a well regulated country with citizens enjoying their liberties, willing to take full responsiblity for both their actions and their words.
A country with an enlightened, tolerant populace.

Socially, I'd like to see a society that isn't obsessed with anthropocentrism, but rather, recognizes itself as a part of nature and doesn't deny other animals the right to live and exist, taking only what is necessary. Yes, it's a dream, but it's something I believe in.

Now that we have the question of my political and sociological beliefs out of the way, I'm against bad laws and creating unhealthy cults of something that is meant to serve the people, not have people serve it..

Also, Good job comparing American citizens to Islamic fundamentalists. Because people following basic laws (which i'm sure aren't even the most original laws, so get rid of them everywhere, right? Or is it just America again?) is the same as people who use violence and fear to promote their religion.

Good job at not understanding the point.

The point is, America, over the last two centuries, has created an unhealthy cult of the Constitution, much like what fundamentalists have done to the Qu'ran. Instead of being reviewed and revised periodically (or reinterpreted, in case of Qu'ran), the document is an antiquated relic running the most powerful country in the world.

You replace parts in a car - why do you insist on keeping antiquated parts in an infinitely more complex machine, the state?

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Hasn't the white man done enough damage to Latin American culture, now you're going to impose your superior morality too so Angel and Jesus can't tape their cockfights anymore?