America proves itself to belong to the 3rd World. Again.

[Professor Danger!]

we point out the american problems here right now cause that is what the thread is adressing it. If someone will open a topic about Spain and how their farmers kill (they hang them) old female dogs. Then we will discuss how wrong that is.

Again. What others do or dont do is no excuse.

It kind of is when people point out that America is awful and whatnot. Then someone posts a link to show that shit is happening pretty much in a bunch of other countries. But it's still okay for people from those countries to come on and knock America, even though they're pretty much committing the atrocities as well.

I guess that must be my "stupid" American-ness bothering me. Oh wait, I have to stop posting on here so I can abuse animals, like people think of America apparently.

If I say no, then you'll call me a hypocrite and use that to deem all my points invalid.

However, the problem with your reasoning is that you're equating killing animals for nourishment with making animals kill and mail each other for nothing more than idle enjoyment. Which is pretty fucked up.

Ask again, this time taking this problem into account.

That shouldn't matter though. The animals don't get to say, "I'd like to live. Please don't kill me and eat me." We just do it.So if you want animal rights, then you should have all of it. Not just when it's convenient.

Especially since you can apparently get nourishment with out killing animals. So which is it? Animal rights only when convenient?

 

[Crni Vuk]

It kind of is when people point out that America is awful and whatnot. Then someone posts a link to show that shit is happening pretty much in a bunch of other countries. But it's still okay for people from those countries to come on and knock America, even though they're pretty much committing the atrocities as well.

I guess that must be my "stupid" American-ness bothering me. Oh wait, I have to stop posting on here so I can abuse animals, like people think of America apparently.

What the hell ? I have no clue from where you get this kind of ideas. Please take your time to read posts by people here carfully. No one said other countries are better/worse. Neither I or tagaziel said America would be bad. Again we are just discussing the topic of this tread. If it is some issue for you ... well no one can help you with that.

 

[Darek]

I linked that article just to prove that other countries are just as demented. Though, American slaughter industry are amongst the worst in the world. But then again, Ireland are abusing greyhounds and other animals so they are no better.

That link is just bullshit.
Just because there is no own law against sex with animals does not make it legal in Sweden. It's handled under animal cruelty laws.
And I'm sure it's the same in many other countries as well.

 

[Professor Danger!]

It kind of is when people point out that America is awful and whatnot. Then someone posts a link to show that shit is happening pretty much in a bunch of other countries. But it's still okay for people from those countries to come on and knock America, even though they're pretty much committing the atrocities as well.

I guess that must be my "stupid" American-ness bothering me. Oh wait, I have to stop posting on here so I can abuse animals, like people think of America apparently.

What the hell ? I have no clue from where you get this kind of ideas. Please take your time to read posts by people here carfully. No one said other countries are better/worse. Neither I or tagaziel said America would be bad. Again we are just discussing the topic of this tread. If it is some issue for you ... well no one can help you with that.

So just ignore equating America as a third world country in the thread's title then? Except for that, i'm not refering to Tagaziel or you. Maybe you should read back, there have been "insulting" comments directed at America and whatnot.

I'm not completely crazy.

PS: Everyone should keep it up though. I really like reading these sort of discussions, even when I eventually give up because I suck at it. And no one's opinions really change.

 

[Crni Vuk]

if you have a problem with it then I suggest you take it up to the moderators. I agree that some comments here regarding the US arent that great. Sure. But as said. Thats what we hve moderators in here usualy ...

 

[Professor Danger!]

It kind of is when people point out that America is awful and whatnot. Then someone posts a link to show that shit is happening pretty much in a bunch of other countries. But it's still okay for people from those countries to come on and knock America, even though they're pretty much committing the atrocities as well.

I guess that must be my "stupid" American-ness bothering me. Oh wait, I have to stop posting on here so I can abuse animals, like people think of America apparently.

What the hell ? I have no clue from where you get this kind of ideas. Please take your time to read posts by people here carfully. No one said other countries are better/worse. Neither I or tagaziel said America would be bad. Again we are just discussing the topic of this tread. If it is some issue for you ... well no one can help you with that.

So just ignore equating America as a third world country in the thread's title then? Except for that, i'm not refering to Tagaziel or you. Maybe you should read back, there have been "insulting" comments directed at America and whatnot.

I'm not completely crazy.

PS: Everyone should keep it up though. I really like reading these sort of discussions, even when I eventually give up because I suck at it. And no one's opinions really change.

That link is just bullshit.
Just because there is no own law against sex with animals does not make it legal in Sweden. It's handled under animal cruelty laws.
And I'm sure it's the same in many other countries as well.

However, some of those countries could also be lax in certain areas of animal cruelty law, like people are complaining about this latest issue in America.

if you have a problem with it then I suggest you take it up to the moderators. I agree that some comments here regarding the US arent that great. Sure. But as said. Thats what we hve moderators in here usualy ...

Well, I don't really have a problem with it, like that. But it should be pointed out when people are just agreeing with it. Calling America stupid isn't really a good argument. But when people sort of follow that sentimentality, it should be pointed out.

 

[CloudlessDruid]

Hey professor, sorry if you felt insulted, I didn't meant to insult you, I was more angry at the position Americans take when they want to defend the first amendment. Whatever, it was not directed to you. Hope you can understand that my words as "fuck the first amendment" didn't meant "fuck what you are talking, I don't care a bit"

 

[Professor Danger!]

Hey professor, sorry if you felt insulted, I didn't meant to insult you, I was more angry at the position Americans take when they want to defend the first amendment. Whatever, it was not directed to you. Hope you can understand that my words as "fuck the first amendment" didn't meant "fuck what you are talking, I don't care a bit"

Don't worry. I wasn't feeling insulted personally. All this stuff makes for good threads. It sucks to post on a message board where everybody pretty much agrees with each other.

And personally, I'm looking at this from a certain perspective, where you kinda have a law and you have to uphold it. Once you start making concessions, then you kinda have to make concessions for everything and then the law doesn't really "work" anymore.

Except for that, I love animals and I think this is all pretty appalling. Well, except for when i'm hungry. I love to eat some of them too then. So in regards to the animals themselves, I pretty much agree with everyone here. In regards to politics and laws, not so much.

 

[Tagaziel]

That shouldn't matter though. The animals don't get to say, "I'd like to live. Please don't kill me and eat me." We just do it.So if you want animal rights, then you should have all of it. Not just when it's convenient.

Especially since you can apparently get nourishment with out killing animals. So which is it? Animal rights only when convenient?

Baby steps. Start with outlawing the most outrageous of forms of animal cruelty (and that includes profiting from it, i.e. distributions of recordings of dog fighting and other forms of animal cruelty), then slowly work the way up.

Vegetarianism is more of a question of social awareness, rather than law. You can't force people not to eat meat, that takes a change in the people's mentality first.

However, you can force people not to buy videos that base on animal cruelty by prosecuting the fuck out of people who produce and distribute it.

And personally, I'm looking at this from a certain perspective, where you kinda have a law and you have to uphold it. Once you start making concessions, then you kinda have to make concessions for everything and then the law doesn't really "work" anymore.

Ah, the slippery slope fallacy. You weren't responding to me, but I feel obligated to point out that this is the most heinously overused argument.

Concessions in liberties are made under specific circumstances and for good, tangible reasons (I'm sure the Holy Constitution already includes provisions for including those limits). They're not done arbitrarily or just for the heck of it. Most of the paranoid fear among the American populace comes from ignorance - for all that talk about liberty et al people know surprisingly little about the way their country works (and its all too common, sadly), making fallacious arguments like the slippery slope work.

Really, you had an example of limiting constitutional freedoms in your history - the prohibition. It didn't work, caused a surge in crime, got repealed. Problem solved.

 

[Loxley]

Yes, it was. If so, then modify the law or deem parts of it unconstitutional, instead of repealing it in its entirety and legalizing animal cruelty depictions.

And if they did that then it would be seen as the supreme court writing the law. It should be sent back. that way proper counsel can be consulted when the write a new suggestion to a law. In the meantime some people will make money on such movies but they will have to face a proper law when it is done.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

But smarmy, biased, knee-jerk reactions are so much more fun.

 

[TheGM]

OH IT IS ON NOW!

WAH WAH I HATE AMERICA!

I kid I kid thats how many people are coming off here.Hey I can play Ignorant stereotypes too?

*European says somethong about the constitution*

As a Ignorant Hilljack replying

Well there buddy what do ya know bout FREEDOM! 60 years ago you had Kings n' Shit while America brought freedom to you after winning world war 2!

at least our citizens have full knowledge our country isn't the best country of the world

As a Smart ass.

Thats because what isn't a beach resort is either a ghetto or jungle.

after your country basically manipulated and sucked most of latin american countries for decades.

As a Capitalist.

Global Food Chain buddy.*Counts millions*

"3 states had laws against zoosexuality that were declared unconstitutional by state courts and subsequently removed: Arkansas, Montana and North Carolina[37]. Because of this, these are the only states where zoosexuality could be considered legal."

As a northener.

Because that is the south and it is expected of them.

 

[Professor Danger!]

OH IT IS ON NOW!

WAH WAH I HATE AMERICA!

I kid I kid thats how many people are coming off here.Hey I can play Ignorant stereotypes too?

*European says somethong about the constitution*

As a Ignorant Hilljack replying

Well there buddy what do ya know bout FREEDOM! 60 years ago you had Kings n' Shit while America brought freedom to you after winning world war 2!

at least our citizens have full knowledge our country isn't the best country of the world

As a Smart ass.

Thats because what isn't a beach resort is either a ghetto or jungle.

after your country basically manipulated and sucked most of latin american countries for decades.

As a Capitalist.

Global Food Chain buddy.*Counts millions*

"3 states had laws against zoosexuality that were declared unconstitutional by state courts and subsequently removed: Arkansas, Montana and North Carolina[37]. Because of this, these are the only states where zoosexuality could be considered legal."

As a northener.

Because that is the south and it is expected of them.

This is probably the most important post so far. Especially the part about the Southerners.

 

[Dragula]

I love how the furry is the one going apeshit about dog fights. AFAIK in his world they are no different than boxing.

 

[Crni Vuk]

we point out the american problems here right now cause that is what the thread is adressing it. If someone will open a topic about Spain and how their farmers kill (they hang them) old female dogs. Then we will discuss how wrong that is.

Again. What others do or dont do is no excuse.

It kind of is when people point out that America is awful and whatnot. Then someone posts a link to show that shit is happening pretty much in a bunch of other countries. But it's still okay for people from those countries to come on and knock America, even though they're pretty much committing the atrocities as well.

No it isnt. What ever if we talk about American issues, German crimes or Soviet wars. The deeds of one is not the excuse for others.

It is very unprofessional to use that as base for some argument.

I love how the furry is the one going apeshit about dog fights. AFAIK in his world they are no different than boxing.

I am not a furry and I see it as wrong either. And the german gouvernement and quite a lot of democratic western nations as well. Or are dog fights allowed in sweden ? Not that I was aware about. But I mean I could be wrong. Anyway in Germany they are not allowed.

And no dog fighting is nothing like boxing ... the one is a torture of animals the other a sport for entertaiment.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

But I think it's kinda crappy when those Westboro Baptist people protest military funerals or when people burn American flags in some sort of protest.

What's wrong with burning American flags and why just American flags? Nationalism is a dangerous thing, America needs to learn that lesson since they clearly missed it in WWII.

Yes, it was. If so, then modify the law or deem parts of it unconstitutional, instead of repealing it in its entirety and legalizing animal cruelty depictions.

The courts can't rewrite legislation so they told legislators how to write the a new bill which will do what they want to do. Shit legislation is shit legislation, good intentions or no.

Second, really? The ability to preach hate freely is a distinguishing quality?

If it's just speech and doesn't violate any other laws (like threatening or harassing people), then it's fine.

You sort of danced around that issue merrily by ignoring my counterpoint to your argument (that you preach healthcare as a right but ignore free speech as a right even though universal healthcare is also "legislation") and instead stating that America's constitution is outdated and should be rewritten even though it is perfectly fine and has worked for 240 years.

No, it's been updated 17 times because there were problems that weren't addressed. I also think that people lose sight of the goal of the first amendment, it's intended to allow people to speak out against the government and to practice (or not practice) any religion.

Bingo. America is definitely not the only country here with problems. It's just that people point it out as if they are. Maybe people from other countries should work on stopping it there, before they start pointing fingers and throwing stones while the same stuff is going on there.

But I guess ignorance is bliss mixed with a little dissing other people who they are no better than makes some people feel better about themselves. *shrugs*

The US has a nationalism problem and I flinch every time I hear a politician call the US the best nation in the world, it's fucking stupid and fucking scary. "Sieg heil!"

Are you still here? Where are your stats and documentation to support your ignorant claim that no one in American understands what is happening in America. But keeping making statements equivalent to "America is stuuuupid". That get's people to listen to you.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-23-2009/jason-jones--behind-the-veil---ayatollah-you-so

As a northener.

Because that is the south and it is expected of them.

Montana isn't part of the south.

I am not a furry and I see it as wrong either. And the german gouvernement and quite a lot of democratic western nations as well. Or are dog fights allowed in sweden ? Not that I was aware about. But I mean I could be wrong. Anyway in Germany they are not allowed.

And no dog fighting is nothing like boxing ... the one is a torture of animals the other a sport for entertaiment.

Dog (and other animal) fighting is illegal in the US too, it's just that distribution of videos of dog fighting is legal. So basically it's illegal to actually fight dogs in the US but you can sell tapes of dog fights from other countries without concern of prosecution. That said, keep in mind that a new bill is in the works that will stop it without being ridiculously broad.

 

[OakTable]

^"Lol all nationalists are Nazis. Being proud of your country is bad. Be like Europe, and bitch about America constantly!"

 

[Crni Vuk]

I am not a furry and I see it as wrong either. And the german gouvernement and quite a lot of democratic western nations as well. Or are dog fights allowed in sweden ? Not that I was aware about. But I mean I could be wrong. Anyway in Germany they are not allowed.

And no dog fighting is nothing like boxing ... the one is a torture of animals the other a sport for entertaiment.

Dog (and other animal) fighting is illegal in the US too, it's just that distribution of videos of dog fighting is legal. So basically it's illegal to actually fight dogs in the US but you can sell tapes of dog fights from other countries without concern of prosecution. That said, keep in mind that a new bill is in the works that will stop it without being ridiculously broad.

Letz hope they will

 

[Professor Danger!]

^"Lol all nationalists are Nazis. Being proud of your country is bad. Be like Europe, and bitch about America constantly!"

This.

There is a gigantic difference between Nationalism and extreme Nationalism. One is good, the other not so good. It's great to have pride in your country, to go out and do things like vote and help out in whatever way you can think of. Kinda helps the country run a little better for everyone. Even if it's slight, it's not bad.

That's not that same as Nazism, fascism, or ultra-nationalism. Why don't people understand that?

 

[Sander]

This.

There is a gigantic difference between Nationalism and extreme Nationalism. One is good, the other not so good. It's great to have pride in your country, to go out and do things like vote and help out in whatever way you can think of. Kinda helps the country run a little better for everyone. Even if it's slight, it's not bad.

Why? Why is nationalism a good thing, exactly? Why is it a good thing to believe your country is inherently better than other countries? Why is it a good thing to be able to use the statement 'you don't love this country' as a valid argument?

You don't need to be a nationalist to be interested in voting and helping out your society.

That's not that same as Nazism, fascism, or ultra-nationalism. Why don't people understand that?

Because one can lead to the other and the USA is a lot more passionate and overt about its nationalism and militarism than most Western-European countries.