Sicknessoverload
Still Mildly Glowing
There's notes explaining they attack caravans for the provisions they hold.
Anyone noticed Legion supporters usually spell Caesar wrong?
- Thread starter Sicknessoverload
- Start date
Still Mildly Glowing
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
They can attack patrols outside of Hidden Valley, and i have seen it happening.
Sicknessoverload
Still Mildly Glowing
I haven't and I've never heard anyone else mention it. I even looked on the wiki and didn't see anything.
Morgan_
Duckerz
And so I should support a tyrannical, militant, child enslaving occupier since it is on the rise? Would you have said the same to the French in WW2 Arthur? You do not even know if the Legion will last and there is more evidence to point to it not lasting. just like every empire every.
Supporting insanity just because it is on the rise is a bad way to go, I think.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
It is strange that you are standing up for the Powder Gangers yet the Legion is a bridge too far. The Powder Gangers are faction full of anarchists and psychopaths that enjoy making the lives of those around them miserable. With the Legion there was a method to their madness and that was to strike fear and doubt into the minds of their enemies. Make them weak and more likely to desert the army.
Meyers and Lem are an exception to this rule. Meyers was a lawman that got a little too overzealous and just wanted to serve his time and then go on with his life. He wasn't really a Powder Ganger and had nothing to do with them. Lem on the other hand was a petty thief who got caught up in the moment and when the dust cleared realized that he made a mistake and wanted to turn himself over to the NCR and serve out his time. The rest of the Powder Gangers are not like that though. Many, such as Scrambler, are murderers and rapists who even bragged about killing kids. This is why I view the Powder Gangers as "Chaotic Evil". They are selfish psychopaths that only care about themselves and want to make the lives of those they come across miserable. While the Legion I would argue that they are evil but they commit evil actions not for selfish reasons but for the betterment of the wasteland.
Look, he is under 18. I am trying my best to be as gentle as I can with him and not my usual aggressive psycho self. We all were dense when we were that age.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Powder_Gangers
Also, no notes whatsoever saying they keep the contents of the caravans. They attack caravans to cut off the supply that goes to New Vegas.
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
Just jumped into the thread is that man really defending the Powder Gangsters
Sicknessoverload
Still Mildly Glowing
Because, just like real life, not all convicts are rapists and child molesters. They're wrong, but this started because they said that they're mindless raiders and if you read the notes you realize this isn't true. A raider will attack you on sight, a Powder Ganger will only attack you if you have something they want.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Well you encouraged him but sticking up for him when it came to the Legion. Who's fault is that, hmm?
Funny given that my female bounty hunter character is always attacked on sight by those fuckers. Remember how they also wanted you to kill off the town that saved you and helped you recover? Totally not evil...
Sicknessoverload
Still Mildly Glowing
"Not many patrols out here lately, which means not as much loot. Our crew is thinking of making a move soon. Follow the tracks up north; head towards the Strip
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
No one said they're mindless raiders, you said they weren't this.
Which is wrong. They absolutely are psychotic, bloodthirsty raiders. Not mindless, but they are still this.
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
Oh yeah, they're definitely not mindless or anything like The Fiends. The Vault 19 Gangers are evidence of that enough. That group are outlaws but not total animals.
The ones around the NCRCF are still scum. Just because they don't shoot you on sight doesn't mean shit. I imagine cartels don't just open fire on sight, but that doesn't mean they're not human trash.
Morgan_
Duckerz
PG's don't attack you until you make a choice between the town and them.
Sicknessoverload
Still Mildly Glowing
Yes exactly, that's the point I've been trying to make.
Reading Polybius, the actual Romans started out like the Legion. So given knowledge of history, yes, I know the Legion will likely last, and yes, I will continue to support “insanity”, as you put it.
EDIT: this thread blew up while I was making dinner. Go live your lives, you weirdos.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Which is exclusive to you and not anyone else. A specific situation is not an indication of their character, there's ton of evidence of them attacking people regardless if they want something.
Sicknessoverload
Still Mildly Glowing
Can't believe I had to defend the fucking Powder Gangers lol
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
Dude what this is the most lively NMA has been all year
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
I haven't made a Legion argument in the longest time so my alignments on NV factions might very well have shifted over the years but from what I remember I look at it from a point of view of history in the making, of what will happen over the course of long time. NCR is burning out fast. House doesn't care about anything else but his city. Enclave wanted (past tense) to erase everyone just so they could do a do over as if that'd work out great which I'd argue is far worse as it is planecital(?) genodice. WCBOS are ideologs that are stagnating has been since around Fallout 2. MWBOS we don't know anything about at this point. And East Coast got fuck all in terms of major groups that can actually accomplish anything (I'd only accept FO3 as canon if I absolutely had to, but I'd honestly write it off as well as non canon trash).
The point about the Legion is that they don't follow in the footsteps of old. The idea of using the old world again, brushing off the dust and putting our heads together to work as a unified goal to rebuild the world could have worked. But then decades passed and things rotted and rusted away. We're going back to the stone age and someone needs to do the dirty deeds of old civilization if there's to be any civilization at all. We can see smaller nationstates set up and then fail, over and over again but what happens when there's no Mr Houses's around anymore? What happens when any BOS can't support themselves because they can't manufacture the things they need to upkeep their way of life? What happens when any place like NCR falls apart and turns into a western frontier again? How is industry supposed to flourish? How is trade?
Legion isn't a moral argument, it's a pragmatic argument. Morally Legion are absolutely disgusting by our modern standards. But most of history has been that disgusting. And like I said, we're going back to the stoneage. Someone has to form a civilization who's aim is not to rely on the old world, especially when that old world's written texts are being used as toilet paper. Something has to be created that will change the way people view society. And Legion is not a butterfly. It's a caterpillar. It's meant to grow into something new when the time calls for it, something that is meant to outlast Caesar. A replacement going forward. If the Legion splinters then a nationstate popping up knows how to survive because it isn't dependent on old world technology. For example, they mention how water is being shipped from Lake Mead to the west because the west is drying up. Whatever place in the west that need that water, if NCR collapses then will they be able to get that water? If not, then will they survive? Look at Broken Hills, what happened the moment its only way of making means for itself dried up? It turned into a ghost town.
Legion? They're taught how to rely on themselves. How to rely on nature around them. How to rely on old fashioned blood and sweat, be it legionnaire or packmule. Legion is carefully crafted to last past Caesar regardless of what happens. The others? Corruption, greed, stagnation or they're too small scale to ever work for the world as a whole. The biggest question I have is... What actually 'is' the Legion? They got priestesses that teach so women can have important roles over there. Chaining women down in stables to be breeders would be insanely unhealthy so there's no way that they're treated worse than pigs. According to Sawyer Legion is all slaves, everyone serving in the Legion is a slave. But... The people who live inside of Legion's territory are not slaves. They're not citizens either, but they're not slaves. There's towns in Legion lands and people go into their lands to trade because of how safe the roads are to travel so there is clearly a lot more to Legion's society that we do not see.
Fact of the matter is that sooner or later the world will reduce itself to nothing but concrete skeletons and unrecognizable rust, human history has taught us what humans are capable of and what sort of societies will be created. Legion? It at the very least its crafted by a learned man. Colorado Fucknugget Tribe on the other hand? Probably are going to start from scratch. Dark immoral shit will happen regardless of the outcome. But if we're going to restart civilization then I'd rather it be by a man with a vision where after he passes and it inevitably fractures the fractured pieces will keep those lessons and pass them on to their new tribes and nation states. Cause NCR was the best hope we got and from everything I've heard it is dying a slow death as it burns through whatever resources it can get its grubby mitts on.
But then again, I'm making an argument based on memories that are at the very least like 7 years old. And I remember how those old discussions used to go and I have no interest in wasting any more time than this. I'm surprised I even managed to type as much as I did.
Those were my old thoughts and arguments IIRC. They're not necessarily representative of how I feel now, just what I remember. And uh... I think the best faction fo the future of mankind is actually Reservation with hot sexy ghoul impreg society. Whoop whoop, skinless babes!
The point about the Legion is that they don't follow in the footsteps of old. The idea of using the old world again, brushing off the dust and putting our heads together to work as a unified goal to rebuild the world could have worked. But then decades passed and things rotted and rusted away. We're going back to the stone age and someone needs to do the dirty deeds of old civilization if there's to be any civilization at all. We can see smaller nationstates set up and then fail, over and over again but what happens when there's no Mr Houses's around anymore? What happens when any BOS can't support themselves because they can't manufacture the things they need to upkeep their way of life? What happens when any place like NCR falls apart and turns into a western frontier again? How is industry supposed to flourish? How is trade?
Legion isn't a moral argument, it's a pragmatic argument. Morally Legion are absolutely disgusting by our modern standards. But most of history has been that disgusting. And like I said, we're going back to the stoneage. Someone has to form a civilization who's aim is not to rely on the old world, especially when that old world's written texts are being used as toilet paper. Something has to be created that will change the way people view society. And Legion is not a butterfly. It's a caterpillar. It's meant to grow into something new when the time calls for it, something that is meant to outlast Caesar. A replacement going forward. If the Legion splinters then a nationstate popping up knows how to survive because it isn't dependent on old world technology. For example, they mention how water is being shipped from Lake Mead to the west because the west is drying up. Whatever place in the west that need that water, if NCR collapses then will they be able to get that water? If not, then will they survive? Look at Broken Hills, what happened the moment its only way of making means for itself dried up? It turned into a ghost town.
Legion? They're taught how to rely on themselves. How to rely on nature around them. How to rely on old fashioned blood and sweat, be it legionnaire or packmule. Legion is carefully crafted to last past Caesar regardless of what happens. The others? Corruption, greed, stagnation or they're too small scale to ever work for the world as a whole. The biggest question I have is... What actually 'is' the Legion? They got priestesses that teach so women can have important roles over there. Chaining women down in stables to be breeders would be insanely unhealthy so there's no way that they're treated worse than pigs. According to Sawyer Legion is all slaves, everyone serving in the Legion is a slave. But... The people who live inside of Legion's territory are not slaves. They're not citizens either, but they're not slaves. There's towns in Legion lands and people go into their lands to trade because of how safe the roads are to travel so there is clearly a lot more to Legion's society that we do not see.
Fact of the matter is that sooner or later the world will reduce itself to nothing but concrete skeletons and unrecognizable rust, human history has taught us what humans are capable of and what sort of societies will be created. Legion? It at the very least its crafted by a learned man. Colorado Fucknugget Tribe on the other hand? Probably are going to start from scratch. Dark immoral shit will happen regardless of the outcome. But if we're going to restart civilization then I'd rather it be by a man with a vision where after he passes and it inevitably fractures the fractured pieces will keep those lessons and pass them on to their new tribes and nation states. Cause NCR was the best hope we got and from everything I've heard it is dying a slow death as it burns through whatever resources it can get its grubby mitts on.
But then again, I'm making an argument based on memories that are at the very least like 7 years old. And I remember how those old discussions used to go and I have no interest in wasting any more time than this. I'm surprised I even managed to type as much as I did.
Those were my old thoughts and arguments IIRC. They're not necessarily representative of how I feel now, just what I remember. And uh... I think the best faction fo the future of mankind is actually Reservation with hot sexy ghoul impreg society. Whoop whoop, skinless babes!
Sicknessoverload
Still Mildly Glowing
Rejoice evermore!