As far as I'm concerned,Fallout 3 never happened. *spoilers*

Sorry, I'm still reading page two but this deserves it
This was to give an emotional finish to the game where you had a morality choice.
Click to expand...

I let that expressionless "lyons" woman go. Its only a shallow npc anyway! If Fawkes could go Nobody would die. A real emotional ending would be if any person depended on you(ie you have a wife) and Lyons has been your adventure companion, saved you from some stuff so you would be at least reluctant to sacrifice a friend. But no, she is only a bland boring npc. You also doesn't have any friendship or relationship at all except dogmeat and one or two companions.

my anecdote

there is a business suited guy at the science lab
zimmer: hello mister! please get our ultra-secret android!
*roams wasteland finding lots of holotapes*
no clue
finally asks megaton doctor
doctor whatsoever : that guy on the broken bow knows the super secret android
*goes to broken bow*
what the **** there is no way in except very hard door
leaves quest alone
**some time later**
there is still this quest to do, ill search online
[spoiler:9f87417f8c]THERE IS A SUBMERSE DOOR, BUT YOU CANT SEE IT FROM THE SURFACE NOR FROM THE COAST[/spoiler:9f87417f8c]
guy in the bow: i hate doctor li for no apparent reason!!! here is the evidence
android/harkness: oh yeah now i know i was an android but im human too have my gun kill zimmer
i kill zimmer while he is going to his room, blood and guts are soaking the hallways and no one seems to care
after a while bryan wilkins passes over what was zimmers torso and abdomen while i stare in disbelief
 
For the question about replay value. I can't really say anything about that since I haven't beaten it yet. But I'm performing the game right now as saint as I can.

But at the moment I start replaying and I'm seeing trough some old quests. When i get to the vampires next time, I'm going to tell Vance to remove his coat. (I really want his coat)

And I probably end up forcing it off him. I also like sheriffs coat :)

I had a point here... ah yes. After I've played the shit trough I know what I get from being goodie-2-shoes, I can actually safely be the asshole that I am and get what I want! And for the 3rd play I will buthcer everything.

I really hope Fallout 3 won't end up like Fallout 2. I tried to be very... very homicidal, but in the end game started crashing. I lost interest for that game, for a long time :(
 
Danilh said:
Sorry, I'm still reading page two but this deserves it
This was to give an emotional finish to the game where you had a morality choice.
Click to expand...

I let that expressionless "lyons" woman go. Its only a shallow npc anyway! If Fawkes could go Nobody would die. A real emotional ending would be if any person depended on you(ie you have a wife) and Lyons has been your adventure companion, saved you from some stuff so you would be at least reluctant to sacrifice a friend. But no, she is only a bland boring npc. You also doesn't have any friendship or relationship at all except dogmeat and one or two companions.

my anecdote

there is a business suited guy at the science lab
zimmer: hello mister! please get our ultra-secret android!
*roams wasteland finding lots of holotapes*
no clue
finally asks megaton doctor
doctor whatsoever : that guy on the broken bow knows the super secret android
*goes to broken bow*
what the **** there is no way in except very hard door
leaves quest alone
**some time later**
there is still this quest to do, ill search online
[spoiler:fa4f90ffbd]THERE IS A SUBMERSE DOOR, BUT YOU CANT SEE IT FROM THE SURFACE NOR FROM THE COAST[/spoiler:fa4f90ffbd]
guy in the bow: i hate doctor li for no apparent reason!!! here is the evidence
android/harkness: oh yeah now i know i was an android but im human too have my gun kill zimmer
i kill zimmer while he is going to his room, blood and guts are soaking the hallways and no one seems to care
after a while bryan wilkins passes over what was zimmers torso and abdomen while i stare in disbelief
Click to expand...
There are no repercussions for killing Zimmer because Harkness expicitly states that he'll let it go this one time, if you do that favor for him. However, if you kill Zimmer under any other circumstances Harkness will be all over your ass.

There are actually quite a few ways to pull off that quest. Why limit yourself to one like that?
 
Shattering Fast said:
Danilh said:
Sorry, I'm still reading page two but this deserves it
This was to give an emotional finish to the game where you had a morality choice.
Click to expand...

I let that expressionless "lyons" woman go. Its only a shallow npc anyway! If Fawkes could go Nobody would die. A real emotional ending would be if any person depended on you(ie you have a wife) and Lyons has been your adventure companion, saved you from some stuff so you would be at least reluctant to sacrifice a friend. But no, she is only a bland boring npc. You also doesn't have any friendship or relationship at all except dogmeat and one or two companions.

my anecdote

there is a business suited guy at the science lab
zimmer: hello mister! please get our ultra-secret android!
*roams wasteland finding lots of holotapes*
no clue
finally asks megaton doctor
doctor whatsoever : that guy on the broken bow knows the super secret android
*goes to broken bow*
what the **** there is no way in except very hard door
leaves quest alone
**some time later**
there is still this quest to do, ill search online
[spoiler:113f89d9d3]THERE IS A SUBMERSE DOOR, BUT YOU CANT SEE IT FROM THE SURFACE NOR FROM THE COAST[/spoiler:113f89d9d3]
guy in the bow: i hate doctor li for no apparent reason!!! here is the evidence
android/harkness: oh yeah now i know i was an android but im human too have my gun kill zimmer
i kill zimmer while he is going to his room, blood and guts are soaking the hallways and no one seems to care
after a while bryan wilkins passes over what was zimmers torso and abdomen while i stare in disbelief
Click to expand...
There are no repercussions for killing Zimmer because Harkness expicitly states that he'll let it go this one time, if you do that favor for him. However, if you kill Zimmer under any other circumstances Harkness will be all over your ass.

There are actually quite a few ways to pull off that quest. Why limit yourself to one like that?
Click to expand...
Because all the quest endings are stupid, at least that way you get a nice plasma rifle. That's an example of a quest where the only karma you get is from your conscience. Don't think robots have the same rights as humans, no matter what and feel that Zimmer rightfully owns the robots, send him back. That's justifiable view point. If anything, killing Zimmer should net you negative Karma cause all the guy wanted was his bloody robot back, but it doesn't because you can tell just from looking at Zimmer that he has to be a bad guy. All you had to do was send him off. Hell, Harkness could tell him to get the fuck off the boat cause he was causing "problems".
 
M-26-7 said:
Shattering Fast said:
Danilh said:
Sorry, I'm still reading page two but this deserves it
This was to give an emotional finish to the game where you had a morality choice.
Click to expand...

I let that expressionless "lyons" woman go. Its only a shallow npc anyway! If Fawkes could go Nobody would die. A real emotional ending would be if any person depended on you(ie you have a wife) and Lyons has been your adventure companion, saved you from some stuff so you would be at least reluctant to sacrifice a friend. But no, she is only a bland boring npc. You also doesn't have any friendship or relationship at all except dogmeat and one or two companions.

my anecdote

there is a business suited guy at the science lab
zimmer: hello mister! please get our ultra-secret android!
*roams wasteland finding lots of holotapes*
no clue
finally asks megaton doctor
doctor whatsoever : that guy on the broken bow knows the super secret android
*goes to broken bow*
what the **** there is no way in except very hard door
leaves quest alone
**some time later**
there is still this quest to do, ill search online
[spoiler:e22fb8a98a]THERE IS A SUBMERSE DOOR, BUT YOU CANT SEE IT FROM THE SURFACE NOR FROM THE COAST[/spoiler:e22fb8a98a]
guy in the bow: i hate doctor li for no apparent reason!!! here is the evidence
android/harkness: oh yeah now i know i was an android but im human too have my gun kill zimmer
i kill zimmer while he is going to his room, blood and guts are soaking the hallways and no one seems to care
after a while bryan wilkins passes over what was zimmers torso and abdomen while i stare in disbelief
Click to expand...
There are no repercussions for killing Zimmer because Harkness expicitly states that he'll let it go this one time, if you do that favor for him. However, if you kill Zimmer under any other circumstances Harkness will be all over your ass.

There are actually quite a few ways to pull off that quest. Why limit yourself to one like that?
Click to expand...
Because all the quest endings are stupid, at least that way you get a nice plasma rifle. That's an example of a quest where the only karma you get is from your conscience. Don't think robots have the same rights as humans, no matter what and feel that Zimmer rightfully owns the robots, send him back. That's justifiable view point. If anything, killing Zimmer should net you negative Karma cause all the guy wanted was his bloody robot back, but it doesn't because you can tell just from looking at Zimmer that he has to be a bad guy. All you had to do was send him off. Hell, Harkness could tell him to get the fuck off the boat cause he was causing "problems".
Click to expand...
Before you told Harkness of his true nature, he didn't have a clue that Zimmer was any sort of danger. Afterwards, it would be far too risky to confront the man combing the entire wasteland for you if the confrontation didn't end with one of the parties dead. I don't know - I just feel more empathy towards fictional androids than you do. It's a Bladerunner thing.

If you want to be a real bastard, you can double-cross both parties and net the Cybernetic Enchancement perk and Harkness's plasma rifle. You don't always have to pick the options laid forth for you in the game.
 
I could have finished the quest delivering the "android component" a random woman gives me to zimmer a lot earlier but i chose not to because i thought i was getting nothing if i done that.

What I'm complaining of is that nobody seemed to know that a shootout was happening about 3 feet of them, because even if the security was okay with it the people would be at least scared.
 
Will post some thoughts: Just recently got the game so I'm not that far yet but one (of many) thing(s) I have been thinking about so far which I hope isn't symptomatic of more of the same is this quest. [spoiler:89b0c075c7]The one where you can rescue the kid from the ants by slaying the ridiculously overpowered queen ant (seriously beth I unloaded all the ammo from every gun I had and still barely a dent in it? seriously?......ok let me try that again...ARE YOU SERIOUS?) Wow what an 'elegant' way to make something hard simply give it a shitload of health!! I had to finish it off with a sword just hacking like mad at its egg sack for 3 minutes, beyond ridiculous. REEKS of lazy game design.

Ok so to my main point you have the option to find the kid a new place to live which I accepted. Now the big question.......................Why don't I just take the kid with me to rivet city? Surely even if his relatives aren't there it's preferable to squatting in an abandoned town!! Yes? Now am I going to have to go all the way back if his relatives are there for him? (I'm not using that fast travel shit, breaks immersion/challenge for me) It would save me another dangerous trip to and fro if the kid would've just came along. Or maybe beth have a sensible plot twist coming my way which conveniently gets the kid to rivet city without me doubling back.[/spoiler:89b0c075c7]
 
Eh, Fallout 3's better than any Fallout game made since Fallout 2 in my eyes. I can't harp at Bethesda for following lore and messing up a little bit. After all, producers of Fallout 2 openly have admitted to several mistakes themselves~

One thing that probably isn't Bethesda's fault is the inability to kill children. Fallout 1 and 2's age, that was fine, but too many people outside the company care anymore. Sex and drugs are fine though, both are uncensored on most tv shows and movies played on tv. Showing you butchering a kid or shooting him repeatedly? The game wouldn't have been able to be produced that way. Even other countries have problems with the drugs. So invincible kids and the like? They're immortal because of probably your mom :)

Eden wasn't responsible for everyone trying to kill you again... he wanted diplomacy to begin with it seemed. The Enclave in Fallout 3 wasn't the on-sight KILL ALL Fallout 2 Enclave... Anyone listening to Autumn was, but Eden wanted to try diplomacy and propaganda moreover. And also, he's a ZAX. Intelligent, sure, but still prone to errors.

and the definite ending with you dying or having someone else die was Bethesda's attempt to make a definite ending that can end heroicly, cowardly, or dementedly. You either lead to many deaths, lead someone else to die for you, or kill yourself in the name of pure water that may lead to the DC are being a step ahead of other areas in restoration.

Some things didn't make sense though overall though, like being unable to talk to Lucy about the events of Arefu and the Family. Megaton's citizens not questioning you fiddling with their bomb doesn't make sense either, but I blame drugs and apathy on that one. A lot of them were practicing addicts and most didn't care whatever's going on as long as they felt safe. Heck, probably only the Sheriff and a select other few knew the bomb was live. It was probably second generation people in the town, afterall.
 
Not killing kids - We knew that was coming, media scrutiny is a lot higher these days.

Little Lamplight, however, was just a Dick Move on the part of Bethesda, taking into account invulnerable kids. I could've lived with the invulnerable kids were it not for that "town".
 
I still don't see why you couldn't just shoot at a kid. the screen would go black and then it would flashback with a message: "You have killed a child. You will forever be marked" or something like that. No dead body, no blood just a message and the knowledge of what you'd done.
 
Hm, how well was that taken in BioShock? I forget <_< that's how they had child killing set up, after all...
 
Hey, you should listen to the holotape in lamplight. They were on a feild trip before the great war and they were in the caves. The adults died/left and the students survived.

Fast forward and you get the current Fallout 3 time, the kids are there and fine, beacuse of the cave fungus.
 
It still doesn't make much sense, where do the new kids come from?
It is two hundreds years after the War after all.
 
Kids are still there because of the Big Town/Little Lamplight combination. Adults in Little Lamplight are sent to Big Town. Considering the nature of people, Big Townians have kids despite the fact that it's a harsh wasteland area. They send their kids to Little Lamplight and the cycle continues.

Or you could read it even more immorally and the pre-exiled Little Lamplight brats could have kids before leaving. After all I don't think post-apocalyptic condoms exist.

I'd question why the Super Mutants didn't kill them all though. I can only imagine it's because kids are either too small of a meal to them or just simply too small to make more Super Mutants out of.
 
With the "defenses" between Little Lamplight and Murder Pass being nothing more than a joke, I'm surprised Little Lamplight ins't full of pint-sized Super Mutants. No, really. Why some kids that live in caves SOMEHOW can hold back the killing wave of bloodthirsty Super Mutants that even the Brotherhood of Steel can't?
 
Well I can think of a few things here...

1.) Super mutants are interested in adults alone for both meals and creating more muties. It could stand to reason that the Super Mutants are just simply uninterested in the kids because they're either barely a meal (They have to be scrawny kids with their diet of fungi, after all) or probably don't mix well with the FEV process ( It's never shown what that experiment results in - probably a dead kid more then a midget Mutant)

2.) They're kids. Super Mutants go hunting for them, kids figure out how to hide without any problems. Mutants get frustrated and leave, figuring it isn't worth it. Then-on the just don't consider it worth hunting for little tiny kids.

3.) Super Mutants are dumb. Maybe they're in-general duped into thinking that they cannot kill the kids for some reason.

However, I do think it's a dumb design decision though - mainly because Vault 87 apparently has a built-in backdoor to a facility meant to lock up and protect from the world outside in it's glorious nuclearness.
 
Trithne said:
Not killing kids - We knew that was coming, media scrutiny is a lot higher these days.

Little Lamplight, however, was just a Dick Move on the part of Bethesda, taking into account invulnerable kids. I could've lived with the invulnerable kids were it not for that "town".
Click to expand...
Thats pretty ironic isnt it ?

When you think about it Fallout 1/2 never set so much emphasis around children or that you could kill them. Actualy their aprearance was even relatively small and they had no big impact on your game, you did not even had many quests specialy designed around children except the one or two times eventualy but still nothing all to heavy. They happend somewhat just to be around sometimes. Nothing more nothing less. Just as like any other NPC or character.

NOw it seems that cause you cant kill children in Bethesdas Fallout you have them present in many ways, so that it literaly can scream in your face 'look, this is a game for a MATURE audience. There are children. And other bad things with them in the wasteland'

I still cant understand why they have made this paneske lost boys child town ...
 
Why would the people of Big Town send their kids back to Little Lamplight?

After realizing the lie of Big Town I don't think they would feel compelled to do so, plus there would be the risk that the kids they send back tell the others what Big Town is really like, which could lead to a faction that doesn't want to leave the caves when they reach the age of sixteen.

Plus wouldn't parents love and care about their children, I sure as hell am not sending my son or daughter to a place that has an atmosphere similar to Lord of the Flies, where the strongest kid rules the pack.
 
There can be lots of explanations, nemetoad.

But you will never explain how these kids survived so long, when you have super mutants searching the wasteland for human flesh or new candidates for the FEV (or what ever that new FEV is called) experiment. And kids' flesh is probably tastier than an adult human flesh.

Also, you have slavers and bandits scavenging around, and none of them noticed a cave full of children...
 
Slaughter Manslaught said:
With the "defenses" between Little Lamplight and Murder Pass being nothing more than a joke, I'm surprised Little Lamplight ins't full of pint-sized Super Mutants. No, really. Why some kids that live in caves SOMEHOW can hold back the killing wave of bloodthirsty Super Mutants that even the Brotherhood of Steel can't?
Click to expand...
Well the shitty "power" armor that bethesda gave the BOS sure isn't helping things... I don't know I haven't been to little lamplight yet to scope it out though I'm sure beth covered all the bases as far as logic goes....cause ya know they are so excellent at doing that... :roll:
 
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