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UniversalWolf said:
Crni Vuk said:
Did the soldiers in Avatar really serve nothing more then generic grunts?
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Except for the one who betrayed the evil humans (Michelle Rodriguez), yes. That's one of the things that surprised me the most. There isn't even a sense of "common man" sympathy with the marines. They're all just as bloodthirsty and evil as the psychopathic leaders. In Aliens the marines were tools of the evil corporation. In Avatar the marines start out working for the evil corporation, but they quickly decide it would be more fun to exterminate the subhuman blue elves.
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God knows I loved the Marines in Aliens. Everyone of them, there was really NO marine I dissliked, even the Lieutenant Gorman. Its awesome to see them all change trough the movie it happens rarely that I really "care" about movie characters but it was really sad to see most of them die. I am asking my self what happend with Cameron since then ... would have expected eventualy here a bit more in Avatar. But it seems the characters are all really more or less flatt.

UniversalWolf said:
Idea for sequel: Aliens vs. Avatar! :D
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DONT GIVE THEM FUCKING IDEAS! :shock: Seriously Aliens vs Predator 1 and 2 did already enough damage ... I am a huge Alien fan and all I can say is. Let the franchise finally rest. It was suposed to end already after Alien 3.


*Edit
by the way why didnt the marines got the idea to eventualy use nuclear weapons against those wanabe elves ? Since they have soooo great and advanced technology good enough to even transfer the mind of a human in some creature how comes no one ever got the idea to simply make a wasteland out of that elfes world ? :mrgreen:
 
They had a sattelite. They should've rigged the thing to have nukes on it.
"Sir, the Na'Vi are massing around the Tree of Souls."
"Nuke the fucking thing when the sattellite orbits it. Now where's my coffee?"

I could've made a better film. Actually had the humans be conflicted about what they were doing and the Savages a little less pure then they seemed. Of course I'm just a damn fool from Indiana. What do I know about filming stuff? You should obviously have a dumb message that you already got jammed into you as a child in it.

And why the fuck are all these other great directors embracing this turd?
 
It sucking fucked. More goddamn style over substance, no compelling story anywhere to be found. Just more "big bad evil corporation" bull.
 
PastaMasta said:
It sucking fucked. More goddamn style over substance, no compelling story anywhere to be found. Just more "big bad evil corporation" bull.
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I cannot disagree with you. On the other hand, I thought it had some redeeming qualities.



OakTable said:
They had a sattelite. They should've rigged the thing to have nukes on it.
"Sir, the Na'Vi are massing around the Tree of Souls."
"Nuke the fucking thing when the sattellite orbits it. Now where's my coffee?"
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Oh man, if we're going to get into cracking apart the silly logic of the movie...Avatar is not science fiction. It's fantasy, pure and simple.

What do you think would have happened after the end of the movie? I say seven years later a human armada about ten times the size of the first one would show up and conquer Pandorum once and for all.
 
UniversalWolf said:
What do you think would have happened after the end of the movie? I say seven years later a human armada about ten times the size of the first one would show up and conquer Pandorum once and for all.
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And finally worth watching it!
 
UniversalWolf said:
What do you think would have happened after the end of the movie? I say seven years later a human armada about ten times the size of the first one would show up and conquer Pandorum once and for all.
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Of course you do remember what happened at the end of the movie[spoiler:f3a98b16b3]their god decided to intervene and utterly raped the human force, I don't know what a larger force could have achieved. The only way of securing the area would be nuclear (unless they've developed a cleaner mass destruction) and that has it's own problems.[/spoiler:f3a98b16b3]

Also, was anyone else reminded of District 9?
 
I think some tie-in book said the RDA guys couldn't bring heavy 22nd century weaponry because the unobtainium (ugh) messes with the stuff and because Earth's governments didn't want them to destroy everything. If they did bring the good stuff, nothing could have stopped them.
 
Meh. I, like many others here though "James Cameron action movie, what could go wrong right?"

When the hell did Cameron jump onboard the hippie bandwagon, totally evil/good deal??

I mean seriously, so cheesy down to the "Oh I am going to be a good guy too so I am gonna emulate the elves to the point of wearing war paint and betraying my own race??"

So yeah, I agree this movie could have been so much more, maybe like part of the human military will do what it takes to keep their species alive "Alternatives like putting the elves to sleep or some shit", then move em off somewhere else". Or, human politicians who argue for a strong but non-genocidal solutions to problems.

But nooo, the entire human race is portrayed as greedy sons of bitches who choose genocide as the "right" solution everytime.

PS: Anyone want to guess why the elves also happen to pretty much a direct allegory to the native americans?
 
I have not watched a movie on the big screen in years.

I asked a teenager what he thought of Avatar. He said that he played the game first and then saw the movie; his conclusion is that the story of the game is better than the movie.
 
The entire human race was not portrayed, rather a group of corporate fucks with a military force attached. And I think their response to the locals made sense, considering the stuff they were looking for was thousands of times more valuable than oil (and we've seen what people are willing to do for that stuff). I'd say their response showed some restraint.
 
34thcell said:
The entire human race was not portrayed, rather a group of corporate fucks with a military force attached.
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Yeah but the majority of humans present were presented as ruthless fucks and the only exception were those who would typically not be dicks IE scientists, which were like what 4 out of how many?

Second, those humans that were "good", were practically going native. Like what, we can't have a human who is good and not go native to the point of becoming one of them??. Like I said even Michelle Rodriguez's character was painted up like the natives. That one other scientist guy stayed in the Navi body through the end of the movie.

From what I got out of the movie, you were either a human asshole or a human who is ashamed of his own race and ends up wanting to become like the aliens to the point of taking an avatar/going native.
 
Yes, but what reason is there for other good humans to be portrayed? They simply did what they were told to do, like people in real life most of the time, and a corporate fuck is a fuck, I don't need to bring up real life examples. I also think you're reading too much in a little face paint.
 
34thcell said:
Yes, but what reason is there for other good humans to be portrayed? They simply did what they were told to do, like people in real life most of the time, and a corporate fuck is a fuck, I don't need to bring up real life examples. I also think you're reading too much in a little face paint.
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The reason/need for good humans to be portrayed is to show both sides of the story instead of turning it into a love/hatefest in a sense. I mean isn't morally grey what made Fallout great? You get ten times more substance when you really encourage the audience to use their brain cells instead of continually feeding them simplified ideas to the point where everyone considers it the norm (Fallout butchered anyone??).

I mean how do we learn besides through objectivity and not always towing one single sides line hookline and sinker. This movie was just so one sided it wasn't funny.

Aliens: The aliens were just doing what the biological imperatives told them to do. Well, the humans want to live so they are also following biological imperatives. There is no one side that is demonized over the other.

Terminator: I don't even think the machines were ever demonized per say. Skynet was a result of flawed and lazy human thinking which fucked us over in the end. Once again it is a neutral ground where both sides can be seen as fighting for their own species survival.

The Abyss: We are lead to believe the alien intelligence is evil but in actuality all they did was observe and try to understand us. Once again there really isn't much demonizing to be had.

I would expect a propaganda film from the far left or the far right, defenitley not from Cameron though.
 
34thcell said:
Yes, but what reason is there for other good humans to be portrayed? They simply did what they were told to do, like people in real life most of the time...
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Simple answer. The humans in the movie don't behave intelligently. They behave evilly, because they're cardboard cut-out bad guys. The elves don't behave intelligently either, because they're cardboard cut-out good guys. It's bad storytelling that lacks any human insight.

Besides, the Colonel (or was it Major? I forget) didn't do what he was told. He found corporate policy too restraining, so he took over in order to massacre more beautiful, nature-loving elves.

34thcell said:
a corporate fuck is a fuck
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You and Cameron are going to get along splendidly! :mrgreen:

34thcell said:
Also, was anyone else reminded of District 9?
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District 9 and about two dozen other movies.
 
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