Bethesda dev speaks

[I_eat_supermutants]

Why is it everytime one of the Bethesda guys opens their mouth, doesn't matter who.
I get stomache aches.
Maybe it's Fallout in the hands of butchers.
TES=Hack and slash that was decorated like christmas.
F3?= Possibly a shootem up where everyone says fuck every other words and pee jokes.
Wait, we got one of those already.
Personally if he delves deeper into the combat, it may grow on him.
Had to get my friends into it that way.

 

[Bluto]

I am starting to think that even if Bethesda put out an precise duplicate of Fallout 2 including the bugs existing at launch, the majority of posters to this forum would plot to boil the developers in acid, then argue incessantly whether it should be hydrochloric, sulfuric, or the slow death of acetic.

The Gragster clearly and explicitly condidioned his remarks saying:

1. He could not and would not be able to give any information about game mechanics of the game in development.
2. That he was completely new to the game and had minimal playing experience with it.

He then proceed with PERSONAL opinions:

1. "We are not in the business of making games solely for other people. We do not make our decisions based of market research, trends, polls or other such nonsense;". To my recollection, this description fits Cain, Boyarsky and Anderson pretty accurately.
2. He felt that the fighting was unnecessarily slow. While I am a turned based fan, I too was not thrilled when fighting in the Hub or Reno waiting 15 minutes per turn while every fluffer, junkie, walker and dog in town fluffed, scored and juiced, walked five steps, and peed on someones leg.
3. He clearly states he felt there were flaws in Oblivion. I heartily agree, and feel that it was a big step backward from Morrowind. There were also flaws in every Fallout title. Not to the same degree in the first two in my opinion, but flaws none the less.

As for me, I will wait and see how the game plays before lighting the burners under the acid bath. There are things that I would like to see. I will be quite sad if the Pancor Jackhammer does not make a return appearance. But I am concerned that the asinine vitriol that lamely pretends to hide behind a tattered facade of "free unchecked speech, franchise loyalty and hard core fans" causes Bethesda to dismiss the input of the rest of the Fallout fanbase because "there is no pleasing you!".

 

[FeelTheRads]

Umm.. yeah. Ban pls.

 

[Sorrow]

I second that.

There are things that I would like to see. I will be quite sad if the Pancor Jackhammer does not make a return appearance.

 

[Sander]

Umm.. yeah. Ban pls.

Uhm, yeah, don't whine for bans.

Bluto: No one pretends to hide behind a facade of 'free unchecked speech, franchise loyalty and hard core fans', which would be ridiculous since we don't have free unchecked speech.

We do, however, have a strong feeling as to what does and what doesn't consitute a good Fallout game, and a very well-founded feeling at that. If you feel you can make an actual relevant point other than 'stop complaining', please come back.

PS: The Pancor Jackhammer certainly doesn't fall under that.

 

[Bluto]

Ziltoid:

Thank you for your civil response and plea.

I have followed this forum since its inception. I don't post, because until of late, I have found the input informative, thoughtful and entertaining. NMA kept me clear of BoS and Tactics, for which I am grateful. They have ceasesly lobbied for a true successor to the Fallout series, true to the style, gameplay,humor, grittiness and choices with conciquince. For that I am grateful as well.

My concerns are real. I have been waiting for someone to take up the challenge to make a true successor for 8 years. But if I was with Bethesda, and every comment I made was met with replies of "Bethesda Suxx!", "Bethesda is nothing but a bunch of fucking idiot whores!" and "My donkey's dick is stuck in Bethesda's ass" by a particular community, I belive I would find myself increasingly less open to real suggestions from same.

Bethesda will not implement every nuance demanded by NMA, DaC and Codex. But if these communities treat Bethesda with occasional respect, appreciation that they attemped to revive a failed francize we revere with resources they worked for, and acceptance that we may not get everything we want, but may get something new we can embrace with surprise, Bethesda may listen to our suggestions and be more open to work with us. I see Bethesda attempting this. I see Briosafreak trying this approach as well. I would hate to see NMA sidelined.

If you see my fondness for the Pancor as my only requirement for a successor, then maybe you might entertain the thought that I might have the capacity for other fondnessess as well. It could happen, even for an idiot like me.

Thank you for your vote for the Pancor, Sorrow!

 

[Sorrow]

If you see my fondness for the Pancor as my only requirement for a successor, then maybe you might entertain the thought that I might have the capacity for other fondnessess as well. It could happen, even for an idiot like me.

Thank you for your vote for the Pancor, Sorrow!

I think that it's misunderstanding . I was just approving the idea of person that posted before me because of another RL weapon that doesn't fit the canon and stylistics of Fallout.

 

[Maphusio]

Fallout will be very different from Oblivion and it will be a game that I guarantee we will not release until we are happy with it. Will you like everything about it? No, of course not. Will you like anything about it? I have no way to guarantee that for you, but that’s ok, because as stated earlier, we are not in the business of making games solely for other people.</blockquote>Link: thread on BethSoft forum

So what's this guys point? If Bethsoft doesn't make games solely for other people, who are they making games for? His moderator ought to delete his message.

Chill... no moderator on that forum can remove a dev's post as they are just volunteers.


I don't think many of you understand this persons post. It's clear that he is NOT the person to believe when it comes to art direction and gameplay. He is involved in the project in such a small way in comparison to others.

What he said was not substantial evidence in either direction.

It was evidence that you should take into account and store for later. This is of but one piece to a much larger puzzle. Sorry, its not going to go together via one artists post.

Do keep those ears and eyes open and don't be afraid to poke around a little... You just may find a bit of information, that will be a bigger piece to the puzzle that we call, "What the hell is Bethesda doing to one of the greatest CRPG's in existence." ...Or so I would like to imagine.

 

[Bluto]

Well said Maphusio.

Sorrow, I assume you are refering to the part of the cannon that includes the HK P90c, H&K G11E, FN FAL, and Vindicator Minigun, all "real life" experimental and prototype weapons. Does this mean that the only weapons that fit your vision of the canon are the Ripper, Power Fist and energy weapons? If so, you may be happier playing Ratchet and Clank.

 

[PhredBean]

The FN Fal is justified as it was developed in the 50s. The others are not. I like having the Pancor in the game, but not as the pancor. Autoshotguns fit fine, but not the Pancor. The G11E, P90c, and Enfield did not belong either.

And what's with asking for bans? The guy is stating his opinion in a well written and organized manner. I'm all for people joining that can express their opinions without the damn newbish "omfg, i ahd to jooin u guys bcauz fallout is da shiizie!", even if I am going to disagree with him.

And his point about remaining civil and acting intelligently towards Bethesda rather than rushing at them mouths-afoam has been repeated by regulars and mods alike.

Anyway, I personally feel the dev's remarks aren't very inspiring, even before he made is idiotic comparison of the combat mechanics. Given Beth's PR track record and their record of making games, I doubt anything less than a demo would make me believe a word they say about their dedication to the series.

 

[TheWesDude]

i think this guy posted because he was sick of the negativity that was sprouting on the message boards about what people want and how far away it is from what they are doing.

he has to realize that if they arent doing something close to the original fallouts, people are not going to welcome them with open arms.

we know it wont be top-down or isomentric, thats too much to hope for from bethesda.

we know it wont be turn based no matter how much it needs to be, that would again be expecting too much from bethesda.

we know the text and descriptions will not be there because bethesda has never done a game as textually demanding as a fallout.

we know that they can get the graphics right and do high quality graphics because we have seen bethesda do so.

we do not know if they are going to use the same style of intro/music as the originals but they can if they so wish.

we do not know if they are going to have talking heads because they havent said anything. but most likely not because they have never done a game with them.

we do know that the interface will not be nearly as clean and easily accessable as the previous fallouts because again, they have never done a clean and easily accessable interface to date that i have used.

we do not know how they are going to handle the SPECIAL or the aimed shots portion because they have not said anything. this does not nesseccarily mean they will not do something as high quality as fallout, but my guess is they will chickenshit their way out by doing action bars like in NWN where you put the actions on a bar and use that. thats the only feasable way i can see to do it in a real-time environment.

the one thing that pisses me off about his statements was when he said the fallout combat system was slow. if he thinks that its slow, the only thing i can conceive is that he only played in the rat cave because when you get to higher levels and harder enemies, its a good thing that its turn-based to give you tactical options and time to plan out your actions.

 

[Maphusio]

The FN Fal is justified as it was developed in the 50s. The others are not. I like having the Pancor in the game, but not as the pancor. Autoshotguns fit fine, but not the Pancor. The G11E, P90c, and Enfield did not belong either.

It could be debated whether or not those weapons would not have eventually been created over the years following the end.

 

[Darwyn]

Man Am I glad at least one of the devs thinks the combat engine needs to change.

 

[Maphusio]

Man Am I glad at least one of the devs thinks the combat engine needs to change.

For the reasons he stated? If thats the case... Both of you need a reality check.

Let us know what you think needs to change and why... I'm curious.

 

[Darwyn]

Man Am I glad at least one of the devs thinks the combat engine needs to change.

For the reasons he stated? If thats the case... Both of you need a reality check.

Let us know what you think needs to change and why... I'm curious.

No, different reasons.


One of them being It's just not FUN.

 

[Maphusio]

Man Am I glad at least one of the devs thinks the combat engine needs to change.

For the reasons he stated? If thats the case... Both of you need a reality check.

Let us know what you think needs to change and why... I'm curious.

No, different reasons.


One of them being It's just not FUN.

I think he said it best, "To each his own"

You did not read my first post so let me repeat myself. This dev is a small man on the totem poll stating his views. He has NO say on the direction this product takes.

With that said Bethesda is creating the THIRD installment to a series. Not a different game and genre.

To further repeat what others including myself have stated both here and on Beth's forums... If Bethesda wants to create a sequel to the Fallout series then do so. If Bethesda wants to create their own PA game then by all means do so... But DO NOT create a different game than the established Fallout series and plaster the name "Fallout 3" on the product in question.

Would you buy Starcraft 3 the MMORPG?

Would you buy Diablo3 the space adventure RTS set on the planet Vulcan with the ultra cool plot line that the planet is really P-382X6 where SG1 encounters the Furlings??!?

I'd hope not. I'd hope you would purchase and enjoy another installment of the game in question that lives up to it's predecessor(s).

Edit: I comprehended your first statement... It wasn't that clear

 

[Sander]

Well said Maphusio.

Sorrow, I assume you are refering to the part of the cannon that includes the HK P90c, H&K G11E, FN FAL, and Vindicator Minigun, all "real life" experimental and prototype weapons. Does this mean that the only weapons that fit your vision of the canon are the Ripper, Power Fist and energy weapons? If so, you may be happier playing Ratchet and Clank.

Er, no. If you think the Pancor fits '50s sci-fi, then you need a reality check. The stylings of the Pancor are so far from the stylings of Fallout it isn't even funny. The same goes for the P90 and G11E.

Darwyn: Nice. Have you ever thought further than 'it's not fun' to, perhaps, 'it's essential for a Fallout game'? Because, you know, *it is*.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Uhm, yeah, don't whine for bans.

And what's with asking for bans?

What's with people getting so uptight about it?
It was merely a "teh funnay".
At least I thought so, since I laughed myself over it.

Yeah, I love you too, Sander. <3


Plus, I don't think I was so wrong about this guy, even if his spelling is better than the average newbie, he still decides he knows better and posts attempts at sarcasm like this without educating himself on the Fallout setting:

Sorrow, I assume you are refering to the part of the cannon that includes the HK P90c, H&K G11E, FN FAL, and Vindicator Minigun, all "real life" experimental and prototype weapons. Does this mean that the only weapons that fit your vision of the canon are the Ripper, Power Fist and energy weapons? If so, you may be happier playing Ratchet and Clank.

 

[SuAside]

I am starting to think that even if Bethesda put out an precise duplicate of Fallout 2 including the bugs existing at launch, the majority of posters to this forum would plot to boil the developers in acid, then argue incessantly whether it should be hydrochloric, sulfuric, or the slow death of acetic.

nice idea, but no.

at this moment, i think most of us would take a bugridden game without much whining, as long as it is true to the original.

1. "We are not in the business of making games solely for other people. We do not make our decisions based of market research, trends, polls or other such nonsense;". To my recollection, this description fits Cain, Boyarsky and Anderson pretty accurately.

except they didn't make a habbit of raping franchises. something Bethsoft seems to be very adept at.

2. He felt that the fighting was unnecessarily slow. While I am a turned based fan, I too was not thrilled when fighting in the Hub or Reno waiting 15 minutes per turn while every fluffer, junkie, walker and dog in town fluffed, scored and juiced, walked five steps, and peed on someones leg.

15min? wow, you little dramawhore...

but either way, if that would've been the price of a game like fallout, i think most of us would've gladly lived with that.

Umm.. yeah. Ban pls.

i think you've been around long enough to know that users can't simply request bans. there are procedures and rules for such a thing. at most you can pm a moderator with a request, but they'll never comply because there is simply no reason to ban this guy.

 

[God is Dog backwards]

Here's what I wrote in reply to that thread:

Ok.

The combat in Fallout was slow. It was very annoying when you faced 100 rats who all wanted to run away from you.

First off, you could speed it up in the oiptions menu, if you are new to Fallout you probably wouldn't have done that.

Secondly, just because it is turn based, doesn't mean it HAS to be slow. I'm not asking for the combat system to remain static since 1998. No one is, I think. We're asking for it to be kept turn based.

See, for instance, Throne of Elemental Evil for a much updated combat system that remains turn based, but has lots of tweaks and things that make it play a LOT faster. It just retains the thing about turn based we want - combat based solely on tactics rather than reflex, in keeping with a large part of what made Fallout great -the whole 'playing a board game' thing (the viewpoint is a big part of this as well), but removes annoyances like lots of enemies who don't particularly want to attack you (or even do). It reduces player 'downtime' whilst keeping it turn based.

TB combat is much more like a puzzle than a reflex thing that RT combat is. It's like a mini game of chess each time the combat starts, where you sit back and outwit and consider your options. People who want hardKORE Diablo or Oblivion action won't like that. My response? Screw 'em. Fallout wasn't meant to appeal to you, and keep the hell out of my game. 99.9% of the gaming market is designed for that sort of person - let's keep this 0.1% for us, eh?

Please?