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TorontoReign
Guest
This will be the one I don't buy until it's less than $30 USED if at all. I think Roshambo had it right. Jebus Christ.
Bethesda has uploaded raw videos from E3
- Thread starter Kilus
- Start date
Hardboiled Android
Vault Fossil
I think you guys are making a o big a deal about skills being folded into perks.
Exactly. Some people just want to bitch about every little thing Bethesda does. Sure Bethesda sucks balls at writing and they have so many problems with their games but sometimes it feels like people just want to bitch for the sake of bitching.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
I think you don't even understand how awful the change is..... they turned Fallout into Borderlands....
Cistern Logic
Assistant to Dr. Mobius
Anything that over simplifies or removes RPG elements like getting rid of skills makes it more of an action game and less appealing in my estimation. It's not complaining just to hear myself complain. Perhaps it's just two schools of thought. I just happen to be old school. 
Hardboiled Android
Vault Fossil
No. They have turned it into a blunter version of the system that's already there.
Well in Mad Max they have all sorts of crazy over the top looking vehicles and raiders so I'm fine with the raiders wearing shit that doesn't really make sense. They're supposed to be insane anyway.
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TorontoReign
Guest
New Vegas had a great deal of reconstruction and no one minded. So did Fallout 2 for that matter. NMA isn't one massive entity that thinks the same. Fallout 4 has been further casualized like Skyrim. People arguing against that should really read the fine print. We have an admin that is a Fallout 3 fanboy ffs. What more do you want? Everyone approving of something they don't like?
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I never said NMA was a hive mind. I'm just directing it towards a few people who nitpick endlessly over things. I'm not a fan of the casualization of Fallout either.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
No, they have completely cut off an entire system and reworked the Perks one into one that isw completely simplified and casualized. Hwo is it "a blunter version"? They completely hacked off THE MAIN SYSTEM to build your character....
And then they went ahead and made the Special system a completely superficial and barebones system that makes more than half of the stats DUMP STATS while making the others just completely shallow in their effects.
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TorontoReign
Guest
I agree some do nitpick certain things a bit, but most of the complaints are valid.
Yep that's exactly what I meant. I agree witha lot of the complaints for this game but sometimes it just seems like some people want to tear apart every little thing just cause its Bethesda.
Because, as it turns out, Bethesda is implementing these terrible choices.
Actually I could care less if they are skills or perks. The bigger issue is that Bethesda shows again that they either ignore Fallouts roots or simply can't understand it. Fallout had its roots in the PnP games. The skills, at least how they have been designed in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, had a clear reason to be there. Now of course if you play Fallout 3 you might ask your self, what the fuck are they even there for? And rightfully so. Because the game doesn't offer you much to do with it, outside of reaching the 25/50/75/100 checks in hacking little computers, lock picking little boxes and planting grenades in peoples pants.
But in Fallout 1/2 they opened you different paths, and I am not just talking about hacking computers. Science for example was used a lot in dialogues, same with inteligence, spech and a few other skills. Hell there was even the one or other use for the Doctor skill. In Dialogues! Imagine that!
Fallout 3 scraped all of that completely and now with the dialogue wheel and removing of skills in favour of perks F4 is closer to a shooter than a roleplaying game. And I am pretty sure that most of those perks will be either for combat or crafting your sim-apocalypse town in minecraft style. That's what Fallout really needs! More visual fluff. Not writting or omg! Roleplaying. Imagine that! ROLEPLAYING! Like real roleplaying! In an RPG! Atrocius! Just like my english!
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sunlessdaysrise
First time out of the vault
Wow I just joined this and I've been a long time Fallout fan since the "original" wasteland but i am really suprised how anti fallout and Bethesda people are. I mean I'm really excited for it. I could care less how things are described if the city is nitpicked I want to know how life functions in the wasteland. I don't need it to be scientifically accurate "ooooo the bombs blew up close to the city shouldn't it be more destroyed." "OOOO there is the glowing sea obviously that was stolen from the Glow." I absolutely love fallout lore and the world. But there are literally aliens and exploding cows as well as the holy hand grenade of Antioch. I think we forget that this shit is a game. One that has an established world that is goofy as hell. there is no accurate science involved. I am just grateful there are fallout games still being made as it is my favorite game series. So I just have to say I am really surprised by how nit picky people are about fallout 4. Hell at least it isn't Fallout BOS that was an abomination that should be burned. Fallout 3-NV-Fallout 4 are not nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Makes me sad : (.
Anyway i'm glad i've finally come to join the No mutants Allowed Community I have always wanted to just never got around to it. So I know i'm sure i'll get some flak for my opinion but whatever fallout in all of it's incarnations is wonderful by me. (except BOS I pretend it isn't real)
EDIT: I also want to mention anyone who says that fallout 4 is not a roleplaying game I want you to really think about this for a moment. You create a person who plays a role that is not you or your life. That is what roleplaying is. No matter what mechanics are used in a game it is still considered roleplaying. Statistics are not always needed. There are tons of games I've played that have zero skills or perks or even ability scores that I still consider to function as a roleplaying game. Adventure games being a strong front runner in that department. I'm done ranting now continue your onslaught on fallout 4.
Anyway i'm glad i've finally come to join the No mutants Allowed Community I have always wanted to just never got around to it. So I know i'm sure i'll get some flak for my opinion but whatever fallout in all of it's incarnations is wonderful by me. (except BOS I pretend it isn't real)
EDIT: I also want to mention anyone who says that fallout 4 is not a roleplaying game I want you to really think about this for a moment. You create a person who plays a role that is not you or your life. That is what roleplaying is. No matter what mechanics are used in a game it is still considered roleplaying. Statistics are not always needed. There are tons of games I've played that have zero skills or perks or even ability scores that I still consider to function as a roleplaying game. Adventure games being a strong front runner in that department. I'm done ranting now continue your onslaught on fallout 4.
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whirlingdervish
Brahmin Cavalry Commander
Trying to pidgeon-hole valid concerns about the game by calling them some sort of "hate" or "onslaught" that has no reason or purpose isn't going to win you points around here.
If you can't see why people don't like some of the changes enough to talk about them, try reading more instead of calling their concerns "nitpicking" or "anti bethesda". You will probably find that they have a solid reason behind their concern and not just an irrational hate of one of many game developers.
If interplay did any of the same things (and they did) we would shit all over them too (and we did). It's not a bethesda thing, or even a latter day bethesda thing. It's more about the seemingly poor choices themselves.
enjoy your stay.
If you can't see why people don't like some of the changes enough to talk about them, try reading more instead of calling their concerns "nitpicking" or "anti bethesda". You will probably find that they have a solid reason behind their concern and not just an irrational hate of one of many game developers.
If interplay did any of the same things (and they did) we would shit all over them too (and we did). It's not a bethesda thing, or even a latter day bethesda thing. It's more about the seemingly poor choices themselves.
enjoy your stay.
Anti Fallout? If one doesn't piss honey over what Bethsoft is doing? 
That's quite an extreme way to put it.... In that case, I guess I'm anti Fallout extremist of the highest order. Haha. No really, Beth make nice action games and funparks... But they totally suck at making decent RPGs. And in my opinion they have royally butchered Fallout series and there's no end to the BS apparently.
It all looks like that we're gonna get FO3 on steroids and not in the good way. Of course people here are "anti bethsoft" and "anti fallout". That's what happens when you present new flashy eye candy sims shooter in a safe sandbox type Fallout to old school RPG crowd. The biggest mystery for me is the fact that why didn't bethesda guys look at what made New Vegas so good, grab the good stuff and run with it... I mean they seem to have some really cool features coming up, but its everything except a good role playing game. Most probably 99% of the writing, characters and dialog is going to suck, all red flags and signs are up that this is the case.
Dammit. I wasn't supposed to say anything about any FO4 related stuff, I don't have much nice things to say about it.... Oh well.
That's quite an extreme way to put it.... In that case, I guess I'm anti Fallout extremist of the highest order. Haha. No really, Beth make nice action games and funparks... But they totally suck at making decent RPGs. And in my opinion they have royally butchered Fallout series and there's no end to the BS apparently. It all looks like that we're gonna get FO3 on steroids and not in the good way. Of course people here are "anti bethsoft" and "anti fallout". That's what happens when you present new flashy eye candy sims shooter in a safe sandbox type Fallout to old school RPG crowd. The biggest mystery for me is the fact that why didn't bethesda guys look at what made New Vegas so good, grab the good stuff and run with it... I mean they seem to have some really cool features coming up, but its everything except a good role playing game. Most probably 99% of the writing, characters and dialog is going to suck, all red flags and signs are up that this is the case.
Dammit. I wasn't supposed to say anything about any FO4 related stuff, I don't have much nice things to say about it.... Oh well.
Right. And if temperature is the only critera for you, everything that is frozen can be called icrecream. But I am not sure if everyone will share that evaluation ...
Well, you create/play a kind of character in almost every game. Be it from strategy games where you are most of the time just called the Commander or General or in games like GTA where you have to assume the role of a criminal. If you really see the playing of a character or character creation as only token than Doom, Quake, the Sims and Half-Life are RPGs too. Mechanics matter my friend. That is the harsh truth that many Beth fans simply don't want to accept - not that I am calling you a Beth fan I am just saying this in general, not that I only blame them for it. The term RPG has been wattered down so much over the years that it has become meaningless. That's why we talk today about the Action RPGs which could theoretically be all games you play today and the PnP RPGs or CRPGs. Games like Torment or Fallout 1 which have been normal RPGs in the past when it was still a niche in gaming are considered hardcore today and many publishers avoid it like the plaque if it can't be sold as action RPG as they see their playbase as to dumb to figure something out and enjoy content that is god forbid deeper and more complex than Call of Duty or Halo so they concentrate on the lowest possible denominator. Not that I have a problem with CoD or Halo, I enjoy such games. I just don't an RPG on the level of CoD.
With skills in a game like Fallout 1 you are not supposed to actually play a role but to create a character and play the game with the skills you chose and guiding him trough the world making decisions based on the qualities of said character. Playing a dimplomath is different to a warrior. Playing a paladin is different to a druid, priest, mage or monk. And this is usually reflected by the choice in the skills - and some games can even go as far as to remove your class when you actually don't behave like as it is expected from the class, becoming something like a fallen Paladin for example. The reason for this is, because you're supposed to play the achetypes in contrast to a game where you might have to assume one single character, like Gerald in the Witcher. I am not saying that a game where you play a single character like Gerald of Rivia or Adam Jenson can't work as RPG. But they do not offer you any chance to really stray away from that role, hence why it is totally fine for a game like Witcher 3 to not let the player kill civilians/inocent people because that would be simply totally out of Geralds role, an RPG like Fallout 1 though would work on a different design idea allowing you to play a child killing psychopath. But of course to those that that don't like RPGs this might be eventually over their head. For them it's all just the same, playing the Masterchief in Halo or the Marine in Doom is also "Roleplaying" ... so who cares if F3/F4 is moving rather in that direction than Fallout 1/2. For them beeing shuned by some questgivers for playing a psychopath is an error and where they question why they can't be both. Killer of Megaton and saviour of the wasteland.
RPGs like Fallout 1 gave you a wide field to explore with characters and character creation. That is where mechanics matter a lot.
I say that Fallout 4 if it follows the footsteps of Fallout 3 is not a real RPG for me, call it an adventure game, a hiking simulator a gore simulator or whack-a-raider or what ever. But from what I have seen I am not convinced that it's an RPG, it just borrows some characterstics from RPGs. But that's it. And many games do this even. Like Warcraft 3 where you have some heroes. Or Blizzard heroes of the storm with skills and level ups. But no one would get really the idea to call those strategy games RPGs. So I am not sure why I should call F3/F4 anything else than shooters. But that's my opinion.
Except that even you're calling them ADVENTURE games and not ROLE PLAYING games. I could call a motorcycle a car because in my opinion both have wheels, but that still does not make it true.
And that is what Bethesda is doing here in my opinion. They take a car (Fallout 1) and remove 2 of the wheels and selling it as motorcycle (Fallout 3, Fallout 4).
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Makenshi
Ahoy, ye salty dogs!
Man don't you dare to compare my motherfucking Borderlands with any Bethesda shit, ok?
whirlingdervish
Brahmin Cavalry Commander
after watching the combat video I am really not excited about this title.
some highlights:
1: Rockit Launcher + Teddy Bear = still in the game why?
2: Throwing smoke to get a pickup from your Vertibird Mount.
lulz Vertibird mount armor DLC incoming.
3: No sign of DT at all. Not even a hint that they realized how stupid only having DR is. No busted shields in this entire video.
4: retarded cranked laser nonsense. apparently nobody realizes how much energy it takes to actually make a laser do damage. there was a reason they were powered by NUCLEAR FUSION before, and it wasn't a worldwide shortage of cranks. Someone forgot to tell them that Fallout wasn't steampunk.
5: Close range fatman combat again.
6: pedobear outfit ingame? wot?
7: Flying power armor. because it has to fly to be cool.
8: Giant animated limping vault boy icon to indicate that you have a broken leg. Just in case you couldn't figure that out when all of the gunplay consists of running away spamming behind you at the enemies.
some highlights:
1: Rockit Launcher + Teddy Bear = still in the game why?
2: Throwing smoke to get a pickup from your Vertibird Mount.
lulz Vertibird mount armor DLC incoming.
3: No sign of DT at all. Not even a hint that they realized how stupid only having DR is. No busted shields in this entire video.
4: retarded cranked laser nonsense. apparently nobody realizes how much energy it takes to actually make a laser do damage. there was a reason they were powered by NUCLEAR FUSION before, and it wasn't a worldwide shortage of cranks. Someone forgot to tell them that Fallout wasn't steampunk.
5: Close range fatman combat again.
6: pedobear outfit ingame? wot?
7: Flying power armor. because it has to fly to be cool.
8: Giant animated limping vault boy icon to indicate that you have a broken leg. Just in case you couldn't figure that out when all of the gunplay consists of running away spamming behind you at the enemies.
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