Bethesda's Lore Recons

[Hardboiled Android]

So now Ghouls are zombies or what the fuck? The kid was in a fridge for over two hundred years. I thought they needed to eat but I assumed I remembered incorrectly. That is one for the books I guess.

And his ghoul parents who have stuck to the exact same house for centuries... also, who says ghouls don't age?

 

[Hassknecht]

I found this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/34933/?
It does the trick relatively well.
Now the only problem is that they don't have the speed on their side so they are piss easy...
Does anyone know of a mod that adds radiation to their attacks?
Oh and I'm definitely creating a mod that alters their name from "Feral Ghouls" into "Mindless One" or "Crazy" or something.

Well, ghouls used to be piss easy in Fallout 1 and 2, so I guess it's historically correct

 

[Someguy37]

And his ghoul parents who have stuck to the exact same house for centuries...

Actually, they say they originally wandered around for some time before moving back into their old house.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

I am, because it conflicts with already established lore.

At this point it should be obvious that we can't discuss canon without accepting that FO3 overwrites the first two games. If we want to take potshots at Beth's shoddy writing we should point and laugh at incosistancies within FO3 and FO4. Not that it's that hard. Biometric seals anyone?

I literally just went and talked to him and he's a soldier that just recently turned into a ghoul so obviously he is traumatized by this event and he's freaking out and speculating wildly. Sure, 'he' says that the radiation will turn him feral. But REPCONN kinda, yknow, contradicts that when the ghouls are down on the lethally irradiated launch room for however long you decide to take completing the quest and Bright tells us that he plans to take his flock to some place that is even worse off when it comes to radiation and if you launch them then the ending slide for Novac has them coming back and helping with the evacuation of the citizens.

REPCONN contradicts the soldier or the soldier contradicts REPCONN?

So a soldier is freaking out because he just turned into a ghoul? And 'he' is supposed to be a reliable source of information?

Are the two things mutually exclusive? There was also Dr. Barrows in FO3 saying that radiation turns ghouls into ferals.

So okay, let's try to be fair here. Obviously Vault 34 and Searchlight happened. That's canon, we can't avoid that. But what are the circumstances for them turning into ghouls? Like... Let's put it like this, what if the brain burns out 'before' the transformation into a ghoul is complete and so by the time it 'is' complete they're already lost? That means that radiation doesn't turn ghouls crazy. It means that a certain amount of radiation during a certain amount of time during the process of ghoulification 'may' turn someone crazy.

This creates other questions, though. Like, why there's the assumption that ghouls will turn feral if ghouls actually don't turn feral? Why all the survivors of Camp Searchlight bar one went crazy? Why the 200 years old ghouls when they talk of ghoulification never mention this?

Would make one hell of a lot more sense than radiation turning ghouls cray cray.

Why? The problem I have with this explanation are the contradictions with FO1-2 and things like REPCONN. The idea that excessive radiation absorption ends up damaging their brains and mutating their bodies isn't bad as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Someguy37]

so I'd say there are other reason for why they turn crazy.

There is

Examination of the Post-Necrotic Human


In my seven dozen years studying the ghoul anatomy, I discover more and more evidence to support my theory on the nature of the not-radiological human, or "ghoul" as they are commonly called.

In summary: I theorize that our unnaturally long lifespan is due to a mutation within the autonomic nervous system of certain individuals following exposure to specific combinations of ionizing radiation with wavelengths below 10 picometers. This mutation, it seems, disrupts the normal process of decay in the neurotransmitters along the spinal cord.

Specifically, the transmitters effected are those responsible for cardiac and respiratory function in a healthy human. According to my studies, these transmitters are continually regenerated after mutation, carrying sufficient oxygen to sustain the life of the subject while being insufficient to retain skin elasticity and avoid necrosis, the result of which is the corpse-like appearance of post-mutation humans. It should be noted that exposure to radiation typically result in sickness followed by death and the x-factor that will lead to mutation upon exposure in lieu of the typical outcome remains unknown to this researcher.

In the coming months, I will be assembling my findings on this subject into a full study.

Neurology of Luminous Necrotic Post-Humans


The brain structure of a Luminous Necrotic Post-Human (colloquially referred to as a "Glowing One") indicates that the regenerative ability of the neurological systems that affords typical Necrotic Post-Humans their longevity, does not extend into the higher reasoning functions of the brain itself. (This subject is further covered in report on the dissection of Feral Necrotic Post-Humans)

The distinctive luminescence that is the trademark of the Glowing One can be best attributed to an unusual amount of radioactive chemicals that building up in the bloodstream and muscle tissue of a typical Ghoul. Upon the transformation into a Feral Ghoul, the neurological systems of the body cease filtering these particles from the blood and tissue, instead causing them to build a distinctive bioluminescence that is distinctive of the "Glowing Ones".

Their social structure seems to be different from that of the Feral Ghoul. They actively seek out others of both their strain and those afflicted with Ferocious Post-Necrotic Dystrophy, particularly those who may have been injured. Studies on the nature of their healing effects on other ghouls continues with no conclusive results as of yet.

Study Of Ferocious Post-Necrotic Dystrophy


The brain structure of a Feral Necrotic Post-Human indicates that the regenerative ability of the neurological systems that affords typical Necrotic Post-Humans their longevity does not extend into the higher reasoning functions of the brain itself. This is a condition that I refer to as Ferocious Post-Necrotic Dystrophy.

As the reasoning and high order thinking portions of the brain deteriorate, the Post-Human subject becomes increasingly hostile, giving into a carnal need to feed as opposed to the capacity for thinking that reasoning that a typical Necrotic Post-Human retains. It remains unclear exactly what precipitates this change in biology and psychology, but anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that non-social ghouls, or those in isolation, are more prone to the condition.

The last one is the most important one.

 

[Mr Fish]

Isn't that from Underworld in Fallout 3?

Oh and I just figured out how to give radiation to ghoul attacks, I put 30rad/3sec on them, gonna go through the ferals tomorrow and rename them into something other than feral and then apply this effect to all of them except. It ought to make my ghoul encounters more interesting.


[edit]

I just looked it up, yes, it is from Underworld. If so then I don't consider it canon. Anything Bethesda spewed out can fuck off. It ain't canon to me. Even if they pulled off some amazing lore in Fallout 4 that is hidden in a corner and would perfectly explain something we've been scratching our heads over I would still have to consider it non-canon.

 

[Someguy37]

Isn't that from Underworld in Fallout 3?

Yes.

The point was that it was never radiation that made ghouls turn feral, it was their minds decaying due to their mutation not being enough to keep their brains intact.

Radiation may speed up this process in the ghouls that have lost the ability to keep higher brain functions, which is why people say radiation = ghouls going feral faster, but the actual condition isn't caused by radiation, which is why non-ferals can stay in highly irradiated places for so long without going feral.

 

[Mr Fish]

Right, it's from FO3 though, so it ain't canon to me.

 

[Someguy37]

But this whole conversation was about why ghouls are the way they are in Fallout 3 and NV, and about the myth that radiation = feral ghouls, which was started in Fallout 3.

Now your not even making sense anymore.

 

[Mr Fish]

My position has always been that they do 'not' turn feral or crazy from radiation. I'm new to this whole not considering Fallout 3 canon thing so I'm gonna slip up every once in a while as the lore is kinda muddled. It'll take time for me to adjust myself to make clearer points from my position.

So to recap, I said that ghouls do not turn "feral" (crazy) from radiation. Askorti said that according to Bethesda, they do. I said that I don't consider Bethesda's games to be canon. I also said that I don't consider the "feralization" to be canon either. Stanislao Moulinsky said that FNV treats FO3 as canon and referenced the soldier mentioning turning feral from radiation and asked if I was going to ignore that. I explained why I do not consider him a viable source of information and gave an example for way some people may turn cray cray during the ghoulification process (which is complete and total speculation on my part). You then brought up something from Fallout 3 that also said that ghouls probably do not turn feral from radiation but that it is from some other reason. I again stated my position that I do not consider Fallout 3 to be canon even if it confirms that radiation do not turn them cray cray.

Maybe I've gone off the deep end and I'm unable to see the flaws in my position here but when did I stop making sense exactly?

Let me simplify it and I don't mean it in a condescending way or anything I just mean that it may be easier to understand my position if I'm coming across as being all over the place:
Fallout 3 and 4 ain't canon to me.
New Vegas is.
New Vegas, sadly, has those pesky feral ghouls in it.
It also had a trooper that said rads+ghoul=feral.
I gave another reason for why they might turn feral.
I said that I do not consider rads+ghoul= feral to be canon as it contradicts things.
I don't think that "ferals" are canon either.
Ferals are still in FNV.
I'm modding them to not be feral anymore.
Fallout 1 trumps FNV to me.
Fallout 1 had something more similar to Romero zombies than FNV's 28 Days Later rage infected.
FNV's depiction of Mindless One's is wrong.
I'm correcting it for myself, it's up to others to correct it for themselves if they so choose.

I think that sums it up.

 

[Someguy37]

My position has always been that they do 'not' turn feral or crazy from radiation.

And I was supporting that by showing how even Fallout 3, the game people claim said radiation = feral ghouls, didn't do such a thing.

I was agreeing with you, and pointing out how it was never thing in the first place.

You considering it canon or not has nothing to do with other people's arguments using it as justification for the idea that "radiation = people going feral", nor does it have anything to do with other people's argument being wrong because Fallout 3 DIDN'T actually show that.

 

[Mr Fish]

I know that. But my point was that even if Bethesda's games said something that would be positive I'd have to write it off. I was never disagreeing with you.

Where exactly did it originate from in the first place? The whole "radiation turns ghouls feral" thing? Did FO3 fans just assume that's what it was en masse and then that was just accepted?

[edit]

Actually now even I feel like this isn't making much sense anymore so let's try to sum 'this' part up.

I was going off on a tangent based on the assumption that somewhere in Fallout 3 it said that ghoulradferal. (because it's a recurring thing that pops up and I haven't played FO3 for a while)
I said it was never canon, you posted that bit of info from Fallout 3 that confirmed that.
I still responded (in a very harsh way because I was angry at something else at the time) that even that wasn't canon.
What I meant by that was that it doesn't matter what FO3 says one way or the other I refuse to acknowledge it as a Fallout game.
So regardless of what that terminal entry had said my position would have been the same.

That's what I meant. Fuck, this is being confusing.

 

[Someguy37]

Where exactly did it originate from in the first place? The whole "radiation turns ghouls feral" thing? Did FO3 fans just assume that's what it was en masse and then that was just accepted?

Fallout 3, because some NPCs said it, and then some NPCs in NV said it also.

People just took it as if it was objective fact, instead of rumors and bullshit made up by racist/biased NPCs.

 

[Mr Fish]

Right then.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Look, I hate the new lore as much as the next NMAer, but stating that they're not canon lalalala can't hear you is frankly a bit... what's the word... petty and nonsensical. Yes it's stupid, yes it contradicts to the game, but we cannot ignore that Bethesda does own the IP, and that while the lore is shit it's still 'correct'. Why else do I ignore Fallout 4 and 3? So that 'correct' lore doesn't wack me in the face.

 

[Mr Fish]

I don't care. I'm tired of having to deal with Fallout 3's lore and from what it looks like Fallout 4's is even worse. It complicates more than it adds to the series. You don't wanna write them off then don't. But saying that Bethesda decides lore just cause they hold the IP doesn't make much sense to me. They lost that right when they pulled the whole Cabot thing. That was the final straw for me. Is it really gonna require something bigger than that for you two write them off? What will it take before you say enough is enough? You don't have to accept it as canon just cause they hold the license. If they're too incompetent to take care of the lore then we can simply all choose to agree to not care for it. It can ride its zany-train into madness. I don't see why any of you would want to hitch a ride on that fucking thing. If that's what you want to do then go ahead.

It's so easy for any of you to --figuratively most of the time but literally some of the time-- say fuck bethesda (for some, in a less crude fashion) but it's too difficult for you to draw the line and say that enough is enough? Fuck that. Enough is enough. Bethesda don't decide canon for me any longer and I don't get why you would allow them to decide it for you.

Will 'anything' be the final straw for you? And if there is a final straw, then why can't Fallout 4 be it? Does it really have to turn into FBOS 2 before you decide that it's gone too far? Cause it's off the rails bananaz already, man.

I have a far better outlook on fallout's lore now when I don't have to acknowledge anything Bethesda added. It's easier on the heart and mind.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I don't care. I'm tired of having to deal with Fallout 3's lore and from what it looks like Fallout 4's is even worse. It complicates more than it adds to the series. You don't wanna write them off then don't. But saying that Bethesda decides lore just cause they hold the IP doesn't make much sense to me. They lost that right when they pulled the whole Cabot thing. That was the final straw for me. Is it really gonna require something bigger than that for you two write them off? What will it take before you say enough is enough? You don't have to accept it as canon just cause they hold the license. If they're too incompetent to take care of the lore then we can simply all choose to agree to not care for it. It can ride its zany-train into madness. I don't see why any of you would want to hitch a ride on that fucking thing. If that's what you want to do then go ahead.

It's so easy for any of you to --figuratively most of the time but literally some of the time-- say fuck bethesda (for some, in a less crude fashion) but it's too difficult for you to draw the line and say that enough is enough? Fuck that. Enough is enough. Bethesda don't decide canon for me any longer and I don't get why you would allow them to decide it for you.

Will 'anything' be the final straw for you? And if there is a final straw, then why can't Fallout 4 be it? Does it really have to turn into FBOS 2 before you decide that it's gone too far? Cause it's off the rails bananaz already, man.

I have a far better outlook on fallout's lore now when I don't have to acknowledge anything Bethesda added. It's easier on the heart and mind.

I meant that acknowledging the lore as stupid is fine, but saying 'lalaalala doesn't exist and it's wrong' is petty.

I just ignore the games and done, I'm happy and don't need to worry about it!

 

[Mr Fish]

Uh-huh.

 

[Someguy37]

I personally don't really care about the goofy shit like Cabot. Fallout, to me, was always heavily based on the frankly RETARDED 1950's scifi b-movies tropes like the giant ants from THEM!, and aliens invading earth and stuff.

Fallout has, IMO, been at its worst when it tires to take itself seriously, because nothing about its setting is really that serious. Even going back to Fallout 1/2, The Master and The Enclave were such mustache twirling, saturday morning cartoon, evil villains I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the Legion of doom alongside Lex Luthor and Skeletor.
-The BoS are a backwards tech-cult using a ranking system of medieval knights.
-We got crazy organization like the hubologists, the bright followers, the children of the atom.
-Major factions do dumb things like wear football/baseball gear for armor, and base themselves around things like the roman empire in some giant cosplay LARP empire.

These movies the series were almost never consistent, nor did they ever really make sense, it was just goofy fun, and as the long as the games remain that way... I don't really see the problem. I think most people take things like canon and lore way to seriously, its just a game.

If I wanted some serious apocalyptic future I would play Warhammer or something.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I personally don't really care about the goofy shit like Cabot. Fallout, to me, was always heavily based on the frankly RETARDED 1950's scifi b-movies tropes like the giant ants from THEM!, and aliens invading earth and stuff.

Fallout has, IMO, been at its worst when it tires to take itself seriously, because nothing about its setting is really that serious. Even going back to Fallout 1/2, The Master and The Enclave were such mustache twirling, saturday morning cartoon, evil villains I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the Legion of doom alongside Lex Luthor and Skeletor.
-The BoS are a backwards tech-cult using a ranking system of medieval knights.
-We got crazy organization like the hubologists, the bright followers, the children of the atom.
-Major factions do dumb things like wear football/baseball gear for armor, and base themselves around things like the roman empire in some giant cosplay LARP empire.

These movies the series were almost never consistent, nor did they ever really make sense, it was just goofy fun, and as the long as the games remain that way... I don't really see the problem. I think most people take things like canon and lore way to seriously, its just a game.

If I wanted some serious apocalyptic future I would play Warhammer or something.

Ever played Fallout 1? No I don't think so, or you haven't played it in ages because I fail to see a lot of goofy and funny shit in Fallout 1. Fallout 2 yes, Fallout New Vegas a bit. And Fallout 3/4? Very much so.