Bethesda's Lore Recons

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by arcticflocky, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Fowler

    Fowler Sedentary

    27
    Nov 21, 2015
    Since I'm not allowed to post links, just go look up "uses of gold". It isn't just used to "look pretty", but that is a major reason.
     
  2. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    The Golden Gate Bridge is shown intact in Kellog's memories despite it mostly being destroyed in FO2.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  3. Monco

    Monco The Duck of Death

    136
    Nov 4, 2015
    Electronics, protective plating on satellites and probes, and crowns (for your teeth that is), that's about all the uses I know of. That's why I said "until recently", because until about 100 years ago the only reason gold was useful was that it looked pretty.
     
  4. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Gon' need wedding rings for dem religious values tho.
    If you like it then you should've put a ring on it.
    Y'know.

    It's important, for... Reasons.

    [edit]

    Seriously though, so long as jewelry exist and society gives them a value gold will automatically be valuable. And it's not like everyone got nuked back to the stone-age or anything. Old world stuff is still around and people are gonna look at the old billboards and pictures and shit and put value on luxury items. Just like we always have. So gold does have an inherent worth to a person because we 'made it' have a worth. Unless the concept of jewelry dies out or changes, of course. But if the new rage became rhinestones then gold would still be vintage jewelry.

    Difference between gold and paper is that paper don't make for a good necklace.

    [edit2]

    Fuck, the point I'm trying to make is that nature changes and evolves. True, gold had no natural inherent worth before a certain point in time when we decided that now it does have worth, but because we decided that it does have worth it is in our current culture something that has a natural inherent worth. But a piece of paper is not something we think of in the same way. Because currency only has one reason to exist and that is to be used for transaction of goods. If it stops being a viable means to use for transactions then it stop being valuable. If it stops being valuable then we will look towards the next piece of paper or coin or mammoth tusk or whatever that is legal tender. But gold? It can't really stop being valuable. Even if we got an oversaturation of gold it'd still always have a value to it.

    And my reason is as simple as jewelry. There are other more important things. Sure. But that don't change the fact that jewelry will always glamorize it. And even if what other uses it has stops using gold as new technology comes along that makes it obsolete it simply won't happen to jewelry. Because it's so pretty.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  5. Fowler

    Fowler Sedentary

    27
    Nov 21, 2015
    Whoops, didn't read the whole post.
    The primary determinant of gold's value is its supply or scarcity, not its use, but you are very correct in what you said.
     
  6. KillerBee256

    KillerBee256 Still Mildly Glowing

    212
    Oct 31, 2008
    I don't remember the bridge being seen in fallout 2.
     
  7. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Golden_Gate
     
  8. KillerBee256

    KillerBee256 Still Mildly Glowing

    212
    Oct 31, 2008
    Ohhhhhhh I never realized that was the end of the bridge, that said perhaps only that area of road bed was messed up. The cable supports we see look in good shape.
     
  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    They were using the Bridge as a plataform launch so it's more than likely that a huge chunk of it is destroyed and propped up to align the Shuttle properly.
     
  10. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    What capital wasteland are you talking about?

    The one in Fallout 3 had established merchant caravans that were on such good terms with both the raiders and slavers that neither group bothered them, with a full circuit of almost every major city in the waste, with each of those cities noting that raiders dont bother them for a number of reasons. Its not really that lawless or chaotic.

    As for WHY they would use caps, for the same reason money was invented in the first place... barter systems don't work on the large scale, and they needed some form of money, and caps were readily available.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  11. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Money only works if there is a working economy on the region but as we can see most towns in FO3 don't produce anything of value. What exactly do these Merchants get from charging these towns in Bottlecaps? The Hub town they come from doesn't have farms either or even anything ot invest money into. A Barter system would actually work better with the set up of the Capital Wasteland. There is really no justification for their use of caps at all, there is nothing backing them and no unifying goverment determining their value. Also, they aren't bothered by Raiders? They actually get attacked often by any hostile if the player is on the same cell as them when going from one location to the other as there are also no safe trade routes of any kind.

    There are more Raiders and Super mutants in the Capital Wasteland than there are any regular people so they are pretty much lawless by definition. Game Narration even describes it as "a cruel and inhospitable place."
     
  12. Monco

    Monco The Duck of Death

    136
    Nov 4, 2015
    That makes some sense I suppose, but the better question is how do these caravans survive at all, no place in the wasteland produces anything of value, not even food, so what exactly are these caravans trading? Why would the raiders leave the caravans alone? We never see raiders trading with caravans, so what possible benefit could there be to NOT raiding caravans. So bottlecaps are used as currency, because of caravans that seemingly have no reason to exist.

    Now if we were shown Megaton producing food and Rivet City producing bullets, guns, clothing, or anything of any value, then I could buy caravans trading and possibly establishing caps as a currency. As it is, it's obvious nobody at Bethesda put any thought into how the economy of the Capital Wasteland is supposed to work.
     
  13. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Ahem, I think you guys are forgetting about the one brahmin in Megaton.
     
  14. Monco

    Monco The Duck of Death

    136
    Nov 4, 2015
    And don't you remember those 5 (dead) brahmin in Arefu, I guess Arefu was the source of all food in the wasteland until the vampires killed off all their brahmin
     
  15. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    Actually they do.
    -Rivet city produces food such as carrots, potatoes, apples, and pears, which it trades for scrap metal to do repairs on the ship. It also gets a large amount of mirelurk meat from the mirelurks constantly trying to inhabit the lower levels of the ship.
    -Arefu, The Regulators, Canterburry Commons, and The Republic of Dave, have multiple Brahmin which provide them with milk, and meat. Larger towns such as Paradise Falls and Megaton have Brahmin also, though obviously not as much since they are compact cities, not large enough to sustain multiple Brahmin like the smaller towns out in the wilderness. There are even several small herds of wild brahmin in the wasteland to get food from.
    -There are a number of randomly encountered hunters from various towns in the game world, hunting mirelurks, yao guai, mole rats, and even feral dogs, for meat which they trade.
    -Scavengers from various towns can be found around the wasteland collecting everything from mutfruit to the old pre-war food.
    -The larger towns such as Megaton, Tenpenny Tower, and Rivet City, produce small amounts of clean water they can trade.

    The idea that they don't produce things is demonstrably false, and easily disprovable by anyone who has played the game.

    But even on top of that, due to the hostile nature of the wasteland, big cities like Megaton can simply trade safety for items. People will be willing to trade some ammo, guns, or food, to be able to stay inside Megaton's walls for X numbers of days.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  16. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    Megaton has ONE brahmin, Merchants don't stop on the Republic of Dave either, Rivet City is the only settlement that produces anything. Looting old food after 200 years is not sustainable at all and those hunters seem to live on their own, not really assoaciated with any settlements directly so they would have even less use for this "money" that has nothing to back it.
    Why wasn't Rivet City the trading Hub? they are literaly the only self sustaining city in the region. Not Canterburry commons who barely have Brahmin.
    None of the even seems to grasp the concept of farming.

    Also makes it all the more irrational for them to be paying in bottlecaps at all.

    Nobody in the capital Wasteland actually produces anything to sustain any form of economy to support a coin. Some towns barely even survive on their own and other only survive because the game is poorly written despite not even having any clean water sources nearby.

    If some towns would be trading "Safety" for goods then what is even a bottlecap even good for?

    A feudalist bartering system would make more sense for the set up of the Capital Wasteland.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  17. Someguy37

    Someguy37 Mildly Dipped

    592
    Nov 18, 2015
    -Did you read the whole post where I explained that?
    -Dave's wife said the merchants did stop there until only very recently when Dave told them to go away because they could live on their own.
    -Besides Arefu and the Regulators, and Canterburry Commons, which have a number of brahmin, and Megaton, Tenpenny Tower, and Rivet City which make clean water.
    -And the hunters in Skyrim never go back to town to sell their catch, and NPCs in Fallout 1 never go to sleep and just stand in one spot all day. Welcome to games. They exist to show people do go out an do these things, without messing up the game by having NPCs from the towns themselves do it, thus possibly breaking quest, or having the hunters go into town and possibly get glitched due to any number of faction related bugs. Games, RPGs especially, have been doing this since pre-Baldur's Gate.
    -It was.
    -Canterbury Commons wasn't the trade hub. Uncle Roe himself states he founded the city for no reason other then it was far away from everything, and explicitly states he has never really tried to bring the caravans together. The idea Canterbury Commons was the "Trade hub" was from the prima guide, which are infamous for making shit up.
    -they DO know how to farm, they simply cant because the soil and water are all irradiated, that is kind of a core aspect of the plot.

    I am constantly amazed by how little you seem to know about the games you are talking about.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  18. SaucyLad

    SaucyLad Stuck in a Fridge

    142
    Nov 20, 2015

    That is not necessarily a retcon for a few reasons:
    1. Kellogg's memories happen 20~30 years before Fallout 2. Assuming the bridge did sustain damage there's time for it to happen.
    2. The Golden Gate bridge in Fallout 2 is actually in pretty good condition. So is San Francisco for that matter.

    Further, you can't even see much of that bridge in Fallout 2. Or even in Kellogg's memories. How exactly do you come to that conclusion?

    Not necessarily propped. One side of the bridge has something of a slope at the end:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Golden_Gate_Bridge_Front_Traffic.jpeg
     
  19. Monco

    Monco The Duck of Death

    136
    Nov 4, 2015
    All the brahmin in Arefu are now dead (and no one there seems to care), there is three whole brahmin at Canterburry, I travelled to the regulators and didn't see a single brahmin

    That kind of invalidates the whole plot of your daddy making a water purifier doesn't it, if Megaton and Rivet city can make a purifier out of scrap why can't anyone else in the wasteland

    Let's ignore the fact that makes no logical sense for a second, and that suddenly people can grow stuff again in FO4, but Mutfruit grows in the wasteland doesn't it? Is there any reason they can't grow that. Ignoring that, why can't Rivet City's hydroponic gardens be recreated and set up around the wasteland?

    Now for sake of argument, let's say that the small number of brahmin and the few hunters could feed entire towns, what is everybody else in town doing? Why aren't they hunting or ranching? How can people even spare the resources to distill alcohol, pay hookers, or buy junk from Moira when they're essentially still hunter-gatherers
     
  20. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    -Megaton doesn't have clean water, all the water you get around the city is irradiated, Tenpenny similarlly doesn't produce anything, and no Caravan stops there either

    -Fallout 1 wasn't a simulation type of game in 3D, so no idea how the game not having "sleeping animations" for random NPCs si comparable to the other game not even bothering with building a coherent world. You are seriously grasping for straws here dude. Skyrim is also kind of a crappy game so why are you using it to defend FO3?


    -"Canterbury Commons is the end of the Capital Wasteland's established merchant caravan route." Fallout 3 Loading Screen.

    Uncle Roe Dialogue:

    "Ah, new in town? Welcome to Canterbury Commons, home of traders, home of caravaners, and most of all, home of excellent bargains!"

    "Hah! Damn near everything, I suspect! I founded the place myself, and I'm the reason this place stays fat and happy. {Bursting with pride}"

    Why do the traders come here?> Because I asked them to, I suspect. I grew up in these trade caravans; known most of them my whole life.
    "I founded this place with my sister Daisy, back in the day. Perfect stop along the caravan circuit."
    "Most of the caravans that come through, their fondest desire is to spend a few days off the road and to get a full stomach."

    All the Caravans report to Uncle Roe. So their main center of operations is Canterbury Commons..... which produces nothing except Caravans apparentl.

    -If they can't farm then how do they survive for 200 years? Same with dirnkign irradiated water everyday (altho this is an entirely different discussion but one that still undermines everything else). Also apparently most Wastelanders don'teven know how to farm or get food if the topics you research for Moira and the random encounters wit hreaders of the survival guide are anythign to go by. Hell you said in a previous point that they produce clean water. Do you evencheck what you write?

    I am constantly amazed how you can just flip flop so constantly on your arguments and how much you are willing to make up to defend FO3 and 4.