Bethesda's Lore Recons

I didn't say HE did it for credibility, I said that you can shit talk others because it ruins credibility.
If you weren't implying that he didn't did it becuase of his credability then the entire comment was meaningless as it had nothing to do with Tim Cain and what he said.

We call what you just did moving goalposts.

It does connect because I said it that many people don't say bad things of something to be polite or to retain credibility. Isn't it what most Beth fanboys want? So no one says anything bad to Bethesda?

We call it being zealously loyal.
 
Isn't it what most Beth fanboys want? So no one says anything bad to Bethesda?
See, I could respond to this by disparaging Obsidian, Black Isle, and Interplay "fanboys", but I'm not willing to sink that low just to make up an argument against someone I dislike.

You should feel ashamed you went there.
 
Isn't it what most Beth fanboys want? So no one says anything bad to Bethesda?
See, I could respond to this by disparaging Obsidian, Black Isle, and Interplay "fanboys", but I'm not willing to sink that low just to make up an argument against someone I dislike.

You should feel ashamed you went there.

I don't mind if you do.

Why? But seriously Bethesda fanboys want that. I've been in Bethesda dominated forums and looked around. It's kind of everywhere, and their response to criticism is really overwhelming in mainly just saying that it's a game and that it's Bethesda. Some of them which I like actually argue really well and in a nice manner, I have no problem with them but the others...

What do you even like? Do you like Fallout 4 and Bethesda games or just dislike this 'ignorance'.
 
Do you like Fallout 4 and Bethesda games or just dislike this 'ignorance'.
I like Fallout 1, 2, Tactics, 3, NV, and 4, and all of Bethesda and Obsidian's for all different reasons.

All of them have big flaws, and all of them should have those flaws talked about.

However, I don't like how both sides tend to literally make shit up about each other's games, that could be easily disproved in seconds, simply to cause drama. I also don't like the massive historical revisionism that goes on about the "intent" of the games.
 
Thank you for derailing the thread, Someguy37. We really appreciate your contribution to the NMA forums.

Back on topic, so what's the explanation for the T-60? Loading screens told me that they were used extensively in Anchorage, so have they been retconned into replacing the T-51b?
 
Thank you for derailing the thread, Someguy37. We really appreciate your contribution to the NMA forums.

Back on topic, so what's the explanation for the T-60? Loading screens told me that they were used extensively in Anchorage, so have they been retconned into replacing the T-51b?

I think the T-60 armour is mainly a way for Bethesda to justify their own design having better stats than the T-51. I wouldn't mind another late pre-war power armour design, but it doesn't make sense for it to be obviously derived (in design) from the T-45 instead of the T-51. Why go back a step in design? It's just to justify their own original design to be the "signature" armour of Fallout 4, which obviously had to be better than the T-51 if they made the T-51 as ubiquitous as the other variants to justify the BoS using it instead of the T-51.
And even that could have made sense: Just let the T-60 be a BoS improvement/variant of the T-45. They've been around long enough and have enough resources to be able to at least improve the old PA design (and since the East Coast BoS used the T-45 it would have made sense for them to base their new armour on that one). But no, Bethesda wanted their signature PA to be in the pre-war sequence (which was heavily featured in the early footages), so it had to be a pre-war design...
 
I find it strange that they already had a new PA variant in the form of Hellfire that they decided not to use in favour of unnecessarily retconning a new set in.
 
According to the Fallout wiki, the T-60 apparently entered service at the very end of Anchorage or sometime shortly after. I don't see the reason for it honestly. Hell a loading screen says the T-51b was the pinnacle of Power Armor that the military had. I honestly thought the T-60 was an upgraded version of the T-45 that the Brotherhood developed in the 10 years since FO3, but it's pre-war for reasons.
 
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I find it strange that they already had a new PA variant in the form of Hellfire that they decided not to use in favour of unnecessarily retconning a new set in.

I'm certainly happy that they scrapped the terrible new Enclave armours.
And while it is nice that the old-style Enclave armour is in the game, it's weird that it's a) there and b) not named as what it is. Maybe it's a preparation for DLC...
 
I find it strange that they already had a new PA variant in the form of Hellfire that they decided not to use in favour of unnecessarily retconning a new set in.

I'm certainly happy that they scrapped the terrible new Enclave armours.
And while it is nice that the old-style Enclave armour is in the game, it's weird that it's a) there and b) not named as what it is. Maybe it's a preparation for DLC...

Preparation? Like what? Shoehorning the Enclave in again?
 
A revision of Hellfire in this new Power Armor system would have been fine, but overall I feel the same.

I think Enclave in a DLC in a limited form wouldn't be horrible. Hellfire could return as X-02.
 
I find it strange that they already had a new PA variant in the form of Hellfire that they decided not to use in favour of unnecessarily retconning a new set in.

I'm certainly happy that they scrapped the terrible new Enclave armours.
And while it is nice that the old-style Enclave armour is in the game, it's weird that it's a) there and b) not named as what it is. Maybe it's a preparation for DLC...

Preparation? Like what? Shoehorning the Enclave in again?
I'm thinking in a very minor fashion, as in, you just find some records and ruins. Y'know, just a little side mission for the BoS to find out where the X01 PA came from, maybe.

A revision of Hellfire in this new Power Armor system would have been fine, but overall I feel the same.

I think Enclave in a DLC in a limited form wouldn't be horrible. Hellfire could return as X-02.

Mods will add those. Along with the Midwestern BoS PA, I guess.
 
It seems that the X01 PA is kinda a random item though, it's not like in New Vegas with the remenants. I guess, you need the right level to find it, and it seems locations sometimes "reset" and there will be new power armors for the players, which feels a bit strange honestly.

Well I guess that's what you get when you create a loot hung/grinding kind of game in a Fallout setting. Things become more generic than special.
 
It seems that the X01 PA is kinda a random item though, it's not like in New Vegas with the remenants. I guess, you need the right level to find it, and it seems locations sometimes "reset" and there will be new power armors for the players, which feels a bit strange honestly.

Well I guess that's what you get when you create a loot hung/grinding kind of game in a Fallout setting. Things become more generic than special.

Pretty much. You need to be at least level 30 to reliably spawn the X01. While the spawn loactions are fixed, the actual type of PA that spawns is tied to your level. But apparently there are a few locations that, if you have the right level, will always spawn the X01.
You kinda drown in PA, though, it's very un-rare. Got twelve now, my hangar is full. I'm the God Emperor of the Atom Cats. Can't bring myself to paint shark teeth on the X01, though, but those paintjobs look cool on the T-60. Especially the shark paintjob reminds me of the nose art on military planes, which is cool.
Speaking of cool, I like the headlamp on the X01. The eyepieces glow and function as headlamps, which is silly but somewhat cool looking anyway.
 
It's alright that you can find them somewhere, but just like you said ... it's common now. I mean you can literaly walk around and find crashed vertibirds in some locations ... and of course a power armor next to it.
 
It's alright that you can find them somewhere, but just like you said ... it's common now. I mean you can literaly walk around and find crashed vertibirds in some locations ... and of course a power armor next to it.

Yes, they're quite common. I wonder why so few "ordinary" people use power armour in the game. I mean, I've seen only one Gunner commander and one Raider in power armour, and of course the Atom Cats and the BoS. Power armour appears to be widely available (to the point where every Red Rocket station inexplicably has a power armour station), but only few use them. When I first heard about the Atom Cats I thought it would be a whole subculture of PA Hot Rodders, but no, it's just the Atom Cats. Which is kinda funny, because Zeke totally believes that they're the next big thing even though nobody gives a shit about their post-apocalyptic interpretation of a subculture that's been out of date for 300 years.
Another wasted opportunity, really. Which is kind of a running theme in Fallout 4, really. Quite a few good ideas, but half-arsed in execution.
A bit off-topic here, but anyway, let's take a look at the companion Cait, for example, because I just did her quest.
You find her in the Combat Zone, which is a huge fighting arena, like The Thorn or the arena in The Pitt. You hear about it and get the quest to check it out. So you might think, hey, fighting arena, perfect opportunity to earn some caps, eh? Especially since it was shown in the pre-release footage. Nope, the inhabitants are raiders and immediately hostile, gotta slaughter them all. Cait is a pitfighter there and immediately becomes your companion.
Wasted opportunity right there, the whole Combat Zone is nothing but a huge setup to get that companion. It could have been a nice location on its own, but no, all raiders are hostile, all the time. Meh.
Right, now Cait approves of lockpicking, doing chems and being an asshole in general. Do that enough and she'll talk to you about her past. Her backstory is a bit cliché, but good enough. Basically, she was sold by her parents into slavery when she was 18, because, dunno, slavers don't take people under 18? Over the next five years she stole enough caps to buy her freedom and went back to kill her parents. She develops a psycho-addiction and fights in the Combat Zone until the Sole Survivor comes along to murder the crap out of everyone.
When she likes you enough she tells the player about her addiction, which isn't curable by ordinary means. But, thanks to plot magic, there's a vault that was filled with junkies and a special device that can magically cure any addiction. So you bring her there (the vault is filled with Gunners, of course), get three different easy speech checks to convince her to get her addiction removed (all result in the same) and boom, it's over. She changes a bit after the quest (does not approve of chems anymore), but that's about it.
So much wasted potential right there. You have no real options, everything results in the same outcome.
No morally grey choices to convince her to keep her psycho addiction, no reconciliation with her past, no different options to help her, nothing.
Just a sob-story and a kill-quest. Wasted potential.
 
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Maybe a mod could change that eventually? Should really not be difficult to change all the raiders to NPCs, and making even a "location" out of it, if the GECK/Creation Kit is released.

But now that you mention it, it really feels like the raider-location in Fallout 3, you know the one with the Behemoth in a cage. THe first time I got there, I thought to my self, hey! This would make an AWESOME raider-town. But nooooo ... of course it's just there ... so you can get a Behemoth to kill. Could have been so awesome. Another wasted oportunity.
 
Yep apparently Cait has never heard of Addictol...the really common item which was made specifically for this game to make it easier to cure chem addictions. Nice.
 
Yeah, the abundance of Power Armor is one of the reasons that I'm in a love/hate relationship with Fallout 4's PA system. On one hand, I love how PA is an actual war machine now instead of just a suit. It's the bridge between a tank and infantry. It feels weighty, powerful and the designs are great. On the other hand, the fusion cells don't make a massive amount of sense with the lore and the over-abundance of PA makes it fee less special and amazing to find/have.
 
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