Bethesda's Lore Recons

MercenarySnake said:
Irwin John Finster said:
Crni Vuk said:
You don't have to. All you have to do, is actually create the narrative. The player has not to take an active part in everything. For example, Dragon Age 1, as many issues as the game has, but the presentation is pretty good. The first few missions of the game start with a war going on, where thousands of troops are fighting each other right under you. And the game has a few of those situations where you see troops marching in to battle, or a siege going on while you sneak in to the town or what ever.

If you can't bend the engine to your narrative, than you have to bend the narrative to your engine. It can work. But it takes effort. Good writers. Good designers.
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Dragon Age: Origins definitely did a good job making it feel like a large, heavily populated battle within the constraints of the game engine. The final battle of New Vegas always bothered me because there were a total of probably 5 to 8 NPCs in this allegedly "epic battle of Hoover Dam," But the developers still did a bang up job working with it and making it play out well despite that constraint.

Gamebryo's most obvious flaw in my experience playing their games has been the sheer lack of NPCs in scenes which really call for a large population.
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Same thing with "cities" consisting of around 10 people with a few houses and a place for the Jarl.
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Part of the problem is that Bethesda as company insists on making everything open world, and as someone pointed out, the player has to be able to take action in everything. Like really everything. If people have routines to get to the toilet - why is there never a toilet in any of the Bethesda games anyway? The player has to be able to take action in that too. I never understood this approach anyway, because it seems immersion is very important to Bethesda, but their worlds never felt immersive to me.

I think a lot more could be achieved if you actually try something that is more similar to the Witcher 2 or no clue, Gothic 2 or something similar. With parts of the game that are open world, ready for exploration, while there are also parts that are closed of and only accessible trough the main quest eventually. They did that in Skyrim, a couple of times. Like the Thalmor Embassy, which I think was actually a better part of the Skyrim game, I even liked it! Why? Because it gave me finally the oportunity to actually role play a little. Even though, it is nothing like what you expect in a real role playing game, it was OK for Skyrims standards.

But of course, as long as their intention and goal is to design theme parks with the main focus on whack-a-mole gameplay, role playing elements will be always sacrificed for that. Doesn't matter if we're talking about Elder Scrolls or Fallout at this point ...
 
Crni Vuk said:
If people have routines to get to the toilet - why is there never a toilet in any of the Bethesda games anyway?
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Every major town in Fallout 3 had both a men and women's toilet areas.

And in TES... well... they use their friendly neighborhood bucket. They usually even have books to read and potions of endurance near them for those... difficult ones.
 
I drink out of toilets in Bethesda games for health. I hope that mechanic never goes away because its hilarious. Haven't tried to do it in Fallout 4 yet though.
 
Someguy37 said:
Crni Vuk said:
If people have routines to get to the toilet - why is there never a toilet in any of the Bethesda games anyway?
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Every major town in Fallout 3 had both a men and women's toilet areas.

And in TES... well... they use their friendly neighborhood bucket. They usually even have books to read and potions of endurance near them for those... difficult ones.
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True, I remember Fallout 3 had ... some. But usually never in the living areas of people. Like, not even in the vaults.
 
Why are the toilet lids falling off most of them and almost none of them have running water? How can they flush shit down the toilet? i would assume they would use outhouses but there aren't many of those in populated areas. I assume they shit in the woods when I am not looking.

Why do they leave skeletons in their living quarters? Why does Bethesda insist on putting unmovable skeletons in living areas with their fixed physics shit? They leave the skeleton unmovable so it won't fall over when they put it in stupid poses but it also leaves you with a skeleton in your bedroom unless you blow it up. This is why Bethesda games require 50 to 100 mods before your brain stops hurting.
 
TorontRayne said:
Why are the toilet lids falling off most of them and almost none of them have running water? How can they flush shit down the toilet? i would assume they would use outhouses but there aren't many of those in populated areas. I assume they shit in the woods when I am not looking.

Why do they leave skeletons in their living quarters? Why does Bethesda insist on putting unmovable skeletons in living areas with their fixed physics shit? They leave the skeleton unmovable so it won't fall over when they put it in stupid poses but it also leaves you with a skeleton in your bedroom unless you blow it up. This is why Bethesda games require 50 to 100 mods before your brain stops hurting.
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The skeletons are for the storytelling. Because you ain't gonna get that in the actual story.
 
The skeletons need to be placed in logical positions but that is too much to ask for. It almost feels like Full Metal Jacket in that one scene where the grunt was sitting next to the dead Vietnamese soldier.
 
Crni Vuk said:
...With parts of the game that are open world, ready for exploration, while there are also parts that are closed of and only accessible trough the main quest eventually...
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Though if they did that enough I bet you'd have a lot of people on the other end of the spectrum clamoring on about how Bethesda is making too many choices for them and forcing too many things on their characters.
 
Crni Vuk said:
True, I remember Fallout 3 had ... some. But usually never in the living areas of people. Like, not even in the vaults.
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You mean like.... inside their personal homes? Its a post nuclear shithole, not everyone gets personal bathrooms.

Megaton, Rivet City, and Tenpenny Tower had some personal residences with their own restrooms, but each town had a communal restroom areas for both men/woman.
 
Someguy37 said:
Crni Vuk said:
True, I remember Fallout 3 had ... some. But usually never in the living areas of people. Like, not even in the vaults.
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You mean like.... inside their personal homes? Its a post nuclear shithole, not everyone gets personal bathrooms.

Megaton, Rivet City, and Tenpenny Tower had some personal residences with their own restrooms, but each town had a communal restroom areas for both men/woman.
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Not personal bathrooms but there should be at least one functional bathroom or outhouse per town.
 
Why do we watch movies and play games, to escape.

I use the restroom when nature calls. We all have reponsibilities whether it be cleaning the house, laundry, dishes, etc.

Its boring shit work but it needs to be done.

Beth doesn't understand I don't need to do the above in a fucking game.

I assume my characters shits and pisses, I don't need to see it. I assume characters have boring days too. Not every fucking day is played out in a book, movie or tv show.

There is a reason why the focus is on days when unusual and dangerous shit happens and the protagonist has to do something about it.
 
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DarkCorp said:
Why do we watch movies and play games, to escape.

I use the restroom when nature calls. We all have reponsibilities whether it be cleaning the house, laundry, dishes, etc.

Its boring shit work but it needs to be done.

Beth doesn't understand I don't need to do the above in a fucking game.

I assume my characters shits and pisses, I don't need to see it. I assume characters have boring days too. Not every fucking day is played out in a book, movie or tv show.

There is a reason why the focus is on days when unusual and dangerous shit happens and the protagonist has to do something about it.
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If I am reading this correctly I'm not sure I can agree. Bethesda caught a lot of flak for not having farms outside of Megaton, because it didn't help build a believable universe. Not having toilets would probably bother the same people. In other words, it's good that they are there because they help build a coherent setting. Unless I read your post wrong in which case I apologize.

The Shandification of Fallout video on YouTube makes a great argument for why these little things matter. Because the little sidetracks are the first things cut from a movie, and video games should not try to emulate movies. Otherwise New Vegas would not have been such a success. New Vegas was a "Shandified" universe as the video narrator explains. I recommend it.
 
The most annoying retcons are:

Fallout 3:
- JET EVERYWHERE. This pissed me off since Myron invented Jet. How in the world did Jet ended up everywhere in unopened containers? Also The Mordinos are the main Jet traffickers and nobody mentions them, yet Jet is common as hell
- How the BoS is depicted (I think this is why they had to come out with the DLC for the 'Outcasts')
- Vault 87: Kind-of retcon since I think FEV was being developed prior the war, so this might be possible

Fallout 4 ***WARNING - MIGHT CONTAIN SPOILERS***
- Enclave existing prior the war. This was hinted in the articles found in terminals at the Boston Bugle buildings. The President being at the Poseidon Oil Rig 6 months prior the war AND the fact the Oil Rig was NOT nuked, especially if it was common knowledge the President was at the oil rig beforehand publicly (This is SORT-OF a retcon since it is quite possible -and makes perfect sense- that The Enclave very well existed prior the Great War)
- Again, JET EVERYWHERE. If anything I was hoping that in Fallout 4 Raiders or other gangs would have created their own chems sort of like what Myron did in creating Jet. I was expecting a gang that consisted of top chemists as the leaders and obtaining their funds by selling special chems only available through that gang.
- The pre-war Vertibirds is sort of a retcon to me, but again, I am one to believe that The Enclave existed WAY before the war (Sans the Bildeberg Group in real life) and their plan was to take over the world after the Nuclear Holocaust
- The fucking ugly pipe pistols. In previous Fallout games conventional firearms are dime-a-dozen and supplies kept growing as more military caches were discovered post-war. These garbage weapons are useless in Fallout 4, they look horrible and it is a poor excuse to not including real life look-alike weapons for fear of lawsuits by gun manufacturers.
- The lack of variety of pre-war weapons other than the 10mm, shotgun, assault rifle, combat rifle and double-barreled shotgun. The weapon system should have been based on frame type (for pistols) and receiver type (by caliber) for rifles. Fallout 4 lacks some of the classic weapons of the series: 14mm pistol (my fav in Fallout/Fallout 2), 12.4mm pistol or assault rifle, .50 Dessert Eagle, .44 Desert Eagle, 10mm Machine Gun, 5.56mm Pistol, 9mm handgun (1911 type), .32 revolver and .223 pistol.
- No RATS???? THERE ARE NO RATS IN BOSTON! WTF BETHESDA??? and NO, Molerats are NOT an evolution of rats, they are moles exposed to FEV+Radiation. Also no feral cats. If dogs made it cats should have made it too. I think that was a stupid thing in the Fallout Bible to state cats went extinct. Maybe all the cats and dogs from The Shi went extinct but unlikely everywhere else.
- The fact people call mutated bears Yao Guiai when in fact it was named by the tribals of Utah. If anything, they should just be called Mutated Bear or Hill Beast or something. Also, Deathclaws shouldn't have expanded all the way to the Commonwealth. IIRC the Deathclaw experiment was conducted in one of the Vaults before the war and not until the Vault was breached Deathclaws went in the wild of the California Wasteland.
- Although a retcon in itself, I am glad Mirelurks are now depicted less humanoid and more FEV-Evolved crustacean. I hated how Mirelurks looked human. That was shit in F3/FNV. And those Mirelurk Queens! they retconed that right.
- No chinese weapons
- No Power Fist (at least the version we came to know in F1/2)
- Pre-feral ghouls look like fucking burn victims, not the horrible ghouls we came to know. Harold was horrible to look at, in comparison, Hancock looks like a Colonial Freddy Kruger. Also Ghoulettes have hair... wtf, again, looks like burn victims wearing wigs (perfectly blond and perfect hair on a female ghoul? lol).
- For some reason Feral Ghouls do not look scary at all... they all look like Oro from SFIII
- The ghoul scream that was so terrifying in F3 and FNV has changed to some burps and squishy sounds. LAME.
- Although a good retcon, no more Reaper Ghouls (or ghouls that launch 'radioactive projectiles'). I like that one. Overpowered in F3 and just another ghoul type in FNV
- Radscorpions. They now bury themselves in the ground and do a surprise attack. LAME. They should be fast and have a very resistant carapace, but burying themselves and magically appearing behind you? Fucking stupid.
- CAPS EVERYWHERE.
- Pipe pistols (and Jet) on pre-war locked safes. That was stupid.

Thats all I can think of right know but I know there are a few others not as annoying or significant.
 
I don't know the exact time frame of all the Fallout games but I can easily believe that if Myron developed a highly addictive drug, particularly a stimulant drug, it would easily spread across the whole Wasteland United States. Drugs know no boundaries and will spread FAST, faster than weapons and other supplies. So the fact that there is jet in D.C. and Boston doesn't seem that bad.
 
How could it spread into the past tho?

I don't like how the Mole Rats keep getting smaller. They were huge, almost the size of a Bear in the first 2 games. Then Fallout 3 made the Pig rats the new Mole rats (they took this idea from FOBOS, funnily enough), they were at least the size of a Pitbull, now they are super small and scrawny....

Also, has anyone actually found any Yao Guai in Fallout 4? They were on the trailer but I haven't found a single one at all. I found Yao Guai Meat on a some raiders but I haven't actually fought any Yao Guais....
 
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