Bioshock Collection - Would you kindly talk about these games?

[Walpknut]

Only played Bioshock Infinite. It was absolute schlock with bad gameplay that somehow deluded itself into think it was art.
You mostly go around shooting caricatures while generic White dude exchanges shoddily written dialogue with the blandest Disney Princess every conceived. The Sci fi is flimsy and throws out it's own rules whenever it's convenient, the religious criticism is highschool freshman level, the racism is mostly a tool for shock and for Levine to show that he totally isn't racist, villains literary get one scene before getting axed so characterization is also shit and the plot just expects you to accept too much idiocy and bad narrative without thinking too much while also trying to wow you with how smart it is.

The DLC is even worse, trying to make some closed circle, Star Wars prequel shit and ends up so retarded you have to wonder if it wasn't written out of spite.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Bioshock 1 was a watered down system shock, except it's featured under the sea with a dull antagonist instead of a rogue AI. I got bored by the time I reached Fort Frolic as you basically use the same tactics over and over, in short it gets stale. Also choice and consequence amounts to save little girls or shove your arm down their throat and kill them for an ending cutscene at the end of the game. The final boss looks like one of those little award statues that they hand out at the oscars and was boring to fight.
Bioshock 2 had a forgettable story but the gameplay was more fun than the first game in my opinion, the Minerva DLC was fun too.
Bioshock Infinite was a humongous turd with no redeeming qualities. You have the Disney princess in the tower you have to save from the beast and slaughtering almost everything that moves in one of the most boring FPS experiences I've ever had. The girl didn't even have much of a personality besides being bubbly and kind of course I can't remember everything about this game since it's so forgettable.

Spoiler

You also have the antagonist who's retarded enough to make himself sterile and a protagonist who is a stupid drunk that trades his kid but then somehow grows a heart at the last second. This causes her to lose part of her finger which somehow allows her to have magical tear opening powers some fucking how.

The gunplay is boring with only two weapon choices at a time because the developers were afraid to make a fun challenging game with balance so they instead forced a console limit to only two weapon choices at a time which is stupid and decline. The enemies can be annoying bullet sponges too if you play on the hardest difficulty and not much enemy variation either.
In the end it's a mediocre FPS with a story that not even the creators themselves including Ken Levine could understand which caused Bioshock Infinite fanatics to attempt to guess what the ending was about.
Oh as for the DLC, the first part was nice to be back underwater after being in a boring generic city floating in the sky but it was still the same boring gameplay. Part two was supposed to be a tribute to thief but the AI was too stupid for stealth and basically either seen you immediately or had old man vision. I never got more than part way through as I was dying of boredom from shitty gameplay.

 

[Vergil]

I agree with @Vergil.

Need to do that more often.

 

[Walpknut]

The dialogue in Infinite is written with the commonly sopread notion that "Scarcasm = Wit". Any asswipe can be sarcastic. It takes very little effort.

Another thing I find hilarious is that Bioshlock Infinite Todd Howards at you on the loading screens "Not all situations have to result in combat" yet there aren't any sneaking mechanics and places will outright close off all door until you kill every enemy.

Click to shoot a missile, Hold and release to create an explosive trap. Quick, what "Vigor" did I describe?
Answer: Every single one.

 

[CaptJ]

It was absolute schlock with bad gameplay that somehow deluded itself into think it was art.

Roger Ebert main argument against video games being art is interaction because it gets in the way of expression.
http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-never-be-art

Wikipedia believes "Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration, and from art, which is more concerned with the expression of ideas...Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction." But we could play all day with definitions, and find exceptions to every one. For example, I tend to think of art as usually the creation of one artist. Yet a cathedral is the work of many, and is it not art? One could think of it as countless individual works of art unified by a common purpose. Is not a tribal dance an artwork, yet the collaboration of a community? Yes, but it reflects the work of individual choreographers. Everybody didn't start dancing all at once.

One obvious difference between art and games is that you can win a game. It has rules, points, objectives, and an outcome. Santiago might cite a immersive game without points or rules, but I would say then it ceases to be a game and becomes a representation of a story, a novel, a play, dance, a film. Those are things you cannot win; you can only experience them.

I don't think that true. However, Levine likes taking more and more freedom from the player because having to deal people interpreting things differently what he intended is hard enough for him.

 

[CT Phipps]

Need to do that more often.

I really don't.

 

[Walpknut]

Is that for real?

 

[MercenarySnake]

If Bioshock Infinite is considered art than Fallout 4 must be a masterpiece. Haha "art", what a joke.

 

[Walpknut]

Like Matthewmatosis said, they are too obsssessed with justifying their existence, they need to evangelize shit as fast as possible. Because that's how the other mediums got recognized as art right? Extremely low standards.

 

[CT Phipps]

I'm going to say that art is fundamentally any particular work which actually has an opinion to convey about a subject in the quote-unquote real world. As such, Bioshock is very much "art" because of the whole takedown of Objectivism and ideas of things like Libertarianism and lack of government regulation. Bioshock 2 actually qualities as art because it discusses the idea of altruism and communism to the point the individual doesn't matter is also stupid because it means anything can be done to anyone as long as it is the quote-unquote greater good..

Ironically, Bioshock: Infinite does NOT qualify as art because it's points regarding the concept of its variety of topics are muddled and indistinct. It's certainly a pretty game but while it PRESENTS American exceptionalism, quantum physics, and full-circle revolutions--it doesn't actually take any sort of stand or present any sort of message regarding the subjects.

Of course, I don't have much respect for people who just blindly go into threads about a topic and say "It sucks" without bothering to explain the reason for their opinion. I also admit to being more than a little biased in favor of Bioshock that I get defensive regarding it. It's a great game, a visual feast, and it actually has something to say which is worthwhile.

So *EPIC EYE ROLL* to the haters.

 

[Vergil]

First two games are aight but I mean they're not really that fantastic or innovative and give pretty generic messages and rely on strawman interpretations of the ideology they're railing against to make that generic point.
Wow extremism on either side of the political spectrum is bad!?!?! Whoa this is ground breaking!
Also lol @calling Andrew Ryan's completely strict governmentless system "libertarianism" but that's a whole nother debate
Really makes me question your ability to really grasp deeper themes and messages due to you're extremely surface examination of everything in stories and your praise of incredibly basic themes and messages likewise but then again I already did that

So *EPIC EYE ROLL* to the haters.

*le epic keep that shit on reddit*

 

[CT Phipps]

First two games are aight but I mean they're not really that fantastic and give pretty generic and rely on strawman interpretations of the ideology they're railing against to make that generic point.

The problem with the concept of the "Strawman" is that it's stupidly misused a lot. You can't say an argument is a Strawman when it's satirical as the point of a parody or exaggeration in a video game or literary work or cartoon is to make the point clear by caricature. If yous say that's a Strawman, that's dumb because the point is not literal representation but calling into question flaws which are underscored.

Or taking an ideology to its natural conclusion.

You can say Voltaire is making a strawman series of arguments but you don't really make any valid point there. Rapture isn't meant to be a literal city but a place where the pressures from its idealogue founder drove it to a breaking point. Albeit, history is full of countries which ARE extremist cariactures of their idealogy.

Wow extremism on either side of the political spectrum is bad!?!?! Whoa this is ground breaking!

A statement from a man with Hitler on his profile and a love of anime National Socialist vampires. I say this as a proud reactionary extremist of the Left. My chief disgust with the Left is how conservative and weak it is.

I think we could use some more extremism personally.

Also lol @calling Andrew Ryan's system "libertarianism" xD

Given sea-steading and creating libertarian utopias like Rapture are real things plus the fact Libertarians have used Ryan's quotes in RL conversations, yeah.

 

[Walpknut]

Bioshock games are so brave ciriticizing things western culture already finds unacceptable. Levine is truly a revolutionary by preaching to the choir.

 

[CT Phipps]

Bioshock games are so brave ciriticizing things western culture already finds unacceptable. Levine is truly a revolutionary by preaching to the choir.

Western culture is BUILT on the things Bioshock criticizes. Hell, here's some cognitive dissonance from a Libterarian who loves Bioshock.

http://www.gamingrebellion.com/2014/10/free-to-play-bioshocks-andrew-ryan-ayn-rand-and-going-galt/

Hell, I constantly find a bunch of gamers talk about how they think Levine is a dumbass because he criticized a philosophy they think is the one true way.

 

[Walpknut]

It criticizes things that are currently considered unacceptable. And it "criticizes them" by just depicting the most extreme variation on the ideology. I am as left wing as it can get, I am an atheist and all that shizz, I rolled my eyes all the way through Infinite.

Saying "hey guiiiise, extremism is bad, guise" is as safe as you can get.

My character just went on a rampage that would make most serial killers blush, then some people who are giving aid to slaves for some reason decide I am a good person despite the only thing they know is that I have been grinding through Guards, after I kill them by accident during the fight I eventually get to a house where a smiling NPC greets me with "Oh, I am on your side, I am a progressive!".... like for real? Are you fucking for real? I ram the Skyhook in the NPCs faces from then on.

 

[Vergil]

The problem with the concept of the "Strawman" is that it's stupidly misused a lot. You can't say an argument is a Strawman when it's satirical as the point of a parody or exaggeration in a video game or literary work or cartoon is to make the point clear by caricature. If yous say that's a Strawman, that's dumb because the point is not literal representation but calling into question flaws which are underscored.

A strawman is an argument set up to be defeated.
It's a caricature of a certain ideology so that it can easily deconstruct it's hyper-exaggerated flaws. It's calling into question the created flaws by putting forth a strawman.
It's way of criticizing something is to juts take it to it's must retarded extreme and saying "omg this so bad u guise".

Or taking an ideology to its natural conclusion.

lol yes clearly libertarians are all going to lead us to Rapture style anarchy. This shit is why I don't take you seriously

Would you be saying the same if I told you things like socialized healthcare would lead us to the natural conclusion of full on communism?

A statement from a man with Hitler on his profile and a love of anime National Socialist vampires.

Literally neither of those are on my profile and Dio wasn't around for Nation Socialism.
Also not an argument that was done as a joke.

I say this as a proud reactionary extremist of the Left. My chief disgust with the Left is how conservative and weak it is.

So an idiot?
I'm guessing you've seen none of the emails and videos of leftist DNC members talking about paying people to harass Trump supporters and all the shady underhanded shit they do?

I think we could use some more extremism personally.

Yea cause fucking extremist leftism sure brought about some great fucking achievements like the Soviet Union, Communist China and Venezuela. Those fucking success stories of extremist leftism.
Seriously just stop fucking talking about shit that you don't have the mental capacity to understand holy shit have I never read something so stupid.
This mother fucker just complained that theres not enough leftist extremism in the same world people like Che Guevera and Fidel Castro existed.

Given sea-steading and creating libertarian utopias like Rapture are real things plus the fact Libertarians have used Ryan's quotes in RL conversations, yeah.

That's not Libertarianism you idiot. Libertarianism is small goverment, high social freedom. Key here being GOVERNMENT, Libertarians aren't anarchists you simpleton.

Western culture is BUILT on the things Bioshock criticizes.

Oh fuck off.
Western culture is the culture that got rid of slavery, started welfare and things like individualism, stop with the cultural cuckoldry.

http://www.gamingrebellion.com/2014/10/free-to-play-bioshocks-andrew-ryan-ayn-rand-and-going-galt/

Again, that's not fucking Libertarianism.
That's like saying Socialism is the exact same as full on Soviet style Communism.

Hell, I constantly find a bunch of gamers talk about how they think Levine is a dumbass because he criticized a philosophy they think is the one true way.

Oh wow you say you've personally found some people who say that? WOW I guess that's how just about everyone thinks!
Good thing anecdotal """"""evidence""""" is all you need anymore!

 

[Walpknut]

Since when was Dio a nazi? He was a Vampire and fell into the ocean before Nazis or Germany existed....

And the Nazis helped Joseph beat the Pillarmen after the Pillarmen got out of their control. Like, holy shit, did you skim through a wikipedia article to find out what Dio was?

 

[CT Phipps]

It criticizes things that are currently considered unacceptable. And it "criticizes them" by just depicting the most extreme variation on the ideology. I am as left wing as it can get, I am an atheist and all that shizz, I rolled my eyes all the way through Infinite.

The irony of Infinite is that it ignores the critique of American xenophobia, founding father worship, and religious extremism to talk about magical portals. The depiction of Bioshock: Infinite's racism and corruption is only slightly exaggerated from the original turn of the century period it depicts--and is actually lessened in several ways. It didn't want to actually talk about RL, though, which is why it's an inferior game to its predecessiors.

Saying "hey guiiiise, extremism is bad, guise" is as safe as you can get.

Except, of course, that extremism is pretty much depending on where you stand. I also believe extremism is something which should be pursued with the left because I find it extremely tepid and limp compared to what it should be. I disagree with Levine's statement about moderation but it is a stand. Furthermore, extremism being bad is demonstrated with SPECIFICS not as a generality.

Specifically, extremism in the ideology of capitalism and lack of government controls in Bioshock 1 as well as fundamentalism for Bioshock 2.

My character just went on a rampage that would make most serial killers blush, then some people who are giving aid to slaves for some reason decide I am a good person despite the only thing they know is that I have been grinding through Guards, after I kill them by accident during the fight I eventually get to a house where a smiling NPC greets me with "Oh, I am on your side, I am a progressive!".... like for real? Are you fucking for real? I ram the Skyhook in the NPCs faces from then on.

I think you missed the point the dude is trying to get you not to kill him. He assumes you're anti-Comstock.

Booker is grossly apolitical and ends up murdering most of the revolution.

Since when was Dio a nazi? He was a Vampire and fell into the ocean before Nazis or Germany existed....

And the Nazis helped Joseph beat the Pillarmen after the Pillarmen got out of their control. Like, holy shit, did you skim through a wikipedia article to find out what Dio was?

I have no idea who any of what you're referring to are. Albeit, I was referring to his previous avatar.

 

[Walpknut]

The irony of Infinite is that Levine was trying to show how non racist he was by making a game about 2 white characters that find slavery not-cool guise, then he forgets to give any non white character a name or a speaking role, except for the leader of the revolution who only gets 2 scenes, her introduction and her death and then retroactively turns her into a willing puppet of a scheme to save some mutant children in the most retarded roundabout way possible and the race uprising just serves to give you black moving targets.

It's kind of like reading they shit I would write back when I was 14, but this guy gets awards and is older than 30.

Let's remember that being baptized automatically turns you into a megalomaniac, just straight up. That's the only trigger a person needs.

 

[CT Phipps]

A strawman is an argument set up to be defeated.
It's a caricature of a certain ideology so that it can easily deconstruct it's hyper-exaggerated flaws. It's calling into question the created flaws by putting forth a strawman.
It's way of criticizing something is to juts take it to it's must retarded extreme and saying "omg this so bad u guise".

Satire is a time-honored tradition. If Strawmen=satire then you've effectively legitimized it.

lol yes clearly libertarians are all going to lead us to Rapture style anarchy. This shit is why I don't take you seriously

I think that's because you're incapable of seeing any flaws in your idealogy.

Would you be saying the same if I told you things like socialized healthcare would lead us to the natural conclusion of full on communism?

That's an argument I've heard all the time.

I'm guessing you've seen none of the emails and videos of leftist DNC members talking about paying people to harass Trump supporters and all the shady underhanded shit they do?

Actually, my general view of the DNC is that its a conservative fundamentally corrupt and broken power bloc that prevents people who want actual reform from accomplishing anything. The DNC as it stands supports gross human rights abuses, allows corporations to run over the United States, and prevents any real organization of labor or reform to prisons as as well as the legal system. The DNC is more Robert C. Byrd than Sanders.

Yea cause fucking extremist leftism sure brought about some great fucking achievements like the Soviet Union, Communist China, and Venezuela. Those fucking success stories of extremist leftism.

Oh you left way too many. You could also state the start of extremist Leftism was the French Revolution with Robpierre.

Seriously just stop fucking talking about shit that you don't have the mental capacity to understand holy shit have I never read something so stupid. This mother fucker just complained that theres not enough leftist extremism in the same world people like Che Guevera and Fidel Castro existed.

I'm an anarchist. I literally believe the current system needs to be torn down to create a new one because of the sheer amount of corruption. Which, ironically, I think can only be achieved by regulating it to the point its powerless save in providing social services and means of critiquing itself.

My sheer loathing of the current Left cannot be measured by mere numbers due to its complete inability to do anything but wipe its own ass with the American flag. They hide behind the "at least we're not as bad as the Right" to the point of sheer disgust.

That's not Libertarianism you idiot. Libertarianism is small goverment, high social freedom. Key here being GOVERNMENT, Libertarians aren't anarchists you simpleton.

Duh, otherwise I might support them. They basically weaken the government to the point it only creates a vacuum which other bodies rise and fill.

Western culture is the culture that got rid of slavery, started welfare and things like individualism, stop with the cultural cuckoldry.

Western culture was constructed on the principles of capitalism, religion, and secessionism. For good and bad. Also, Western culture getting rid of slavery is kind of a weird statement given the slave trade founded the New World branch of its economy.