shorrtybearr said:
Eyenixon said:
Not that it really matters, but since when did it start being mandatory for RPGs to have good stories? You know this genre is prone to the same storytelling conventions and tired plotlines - people act as though it's the most important thing. It really isn't, story is at best an RPG developer's third priority, their first is a strong structured indepth roleplaying system, their second is giving a good playing area to use this system in with entertaining causes and effects, and their third priority is to fill it up with stuff that makes it a little more interesting, IE story.
I disagree, a flashy game with great mechanics and great graphics doesnt make a good game.
Imagine MGS without the story line and you'll see my point. (its not techincally a "traditional" rpg but still makes my point)
If a story is weak and unbelievebale not to mention told badly then it doesnt matter what you jazz it up with its still gonna be a bad story told badly.
Also i never said it was "mandatory for RPGs to have good stories" although it should be. A game is built from story or plot upwards, you cannot pitch to a company
"i want to make a game, its gotta be flashy with great music, great effects, and great graphics but err.......i dunno what its about yet...might involve aliens or something gooey, maybe some other.....stuff"
I didn't say anything like that. My priorities went like this.
1. Make it fun and intelligent, provide plenty of options in your basic design document, make sure that there are plenty of ways for a player to utilize various aspects of your roleplaying system.
- This can be everything from different classes (Ultima IV - Sheperd, Warrior, Druid) to different skills (Fallout - Lockpick, Speech, Small Guns).
-Utilization can follow from repairing a generator, being able to use your repairing knowledge in dialog, or fixing small items you might not usually be able to - as a small example of options in an RPG, it's the developer's first priority to make sure that the variety of things a character can be has uses.
-If this wasn't the case, there wouldn't be an essential difference between a mage and a warrior.
-Oblivion botched this priority, everyone can be everything, and everything doesn't have a use that can be considered important at any time, Fallout had very few entirely "useless" skills, even gambling can be used and abused with good luck.
2. Create your world, environments, NPCs, and make sure that it's a playground for the player and not a playground for your own developer's ego. Make sure that you provide plenty of places for a player to utilize his skills, but don't necessarily make it that these places are entirely related to quests or plot, IE a player can use doctor to heal himself, party members, or random NPCs that are essential but got hurt in a firefight, so on and so forth. This is where you define how your world works in regards to the player.
-Ultima IV did a perfect job of this, you can be an asshole however much you like, but inevitably there is a clear goal, however you wish to accomplish this goal is up to you, as long as you fulfill certain parameters, however these parameters are not set in stone - therefore it's entirely up to you to go where you want and do what you want, the idea is that it's your playground.
-Planescape: Torment failed in this regard whereas its relatively simple predecessor Baldur's Gate even managed to achieved a good amount of success in it. Several parts of Planescape were overshadowed by the fact that the developers rigidly wanted to tell a linear story with little opportunity for the player to fool around in a playground. It's one of the big reasons I consider Torment a "adventure game with RPG elements". Even though it's advertised as being open to characters that want to be a thief or a warrior, these avenues are useless. The developers undercut themselves, you have to be a good Mage with high intelligence, wisdom and charisma to get any enjoyment from the game.
3. Add flavor, a good plot, an interesting environment, defining NPCs and elaborate quests. This is the meat of the game that most people will see, the other two priorities make the bone but this is the flesh, the outer appearance. Attempt to create an engaging game by providing the player reasons to play other than just good gameplay.
-See Anachronox for an almost perfect example. Underneath its charm it's a relatively simple but incredibly tight Japanese styled RPG, everything is well balanced and the game is a joy to play. But ask any player what they remember most and its the characters, the pseudo superheroes, Sly Boots, and all the other bizarre characters and environments.
-Oblivion can also have been considered to fail in this regard, it's a very generic game with a story that is none too fascinating - bland characters, bland NPCs.
PS: Developers don't say "I have a neat idea for a story" developers say, "You know what would be cool, if we made a game like an action movie, but the player was in the movie!" that makes the basic idea of shooters like Half-Life, that was Half-Life's original intention, it was born out of that simple story. Similarly, Ultima IV's aim was to say "What if we made a game where what you did really matter, like, what if people looked down on you because you shot a warrior in the back while he fled from you in battle? "
I don't think anyone says "Let's make a game about an amnesiac that loses his memories each time he dies and he waltzes about with weird characters in a weird place, oh, and then I guess we'll use the Infinity Engine and make it an RPG."
That's just totally messed up.
