Can you really call yourself a Fallout fan if you love Fallout 4, honestly?

I love FO4. Please let me know you at least completed the base game main quest and Far Harbor main quest before creating such a disparaging thread. I also love FNV, more than FO4.

I love chocolate ice cream, I prefer mint flavor, how weird is that?!
 
The reality of being a FO4 (or FO3) fan, is that neither game is even derived from Fallout, they merely wear the IP like the hide of a skinned animal; a parallel to the veritable wolf in sheep's clothing.

In essence, what is enjoyed by them are not qualities of the IP; all that the post Interplay titles have of the series are the names of the IP assets. One could do the same with a Nintendo IP; slap the "Mario" or "Donkey Kong" label on whatever they wished. It doesn't make D00M a Mario or DK sequel.



Honorable mention:

*This is an example building upon the proper foundation of the original (DKC) series... though in this case, the designer's goal was to replicate, rather than expand & improve.
 
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@Gizmojunk
You specify 3 and 4, but also say "all that the post Interplay titles have of the series are the names of the IP assets". I hope you're not including NV in this. :naughty:
I think it's about the atmosphere, storytelling and interactivity with the storytelling that matters most. Whether isometric or fps is more superficial when evaluating a good Fallout game. I'd even argue that retconning everything Fallout and starting anew is also fine if it's done well. A river is never the same river twice afterall. This really seems like you're saying only the og titles and anything that strictly tries to do the same thing are true Fallouts. I think it's too restrictive an identity if this is what you're saying. Could just be how I'm reading it.
 
This really seems like you're saying only the og titles and anything that strictly tries to do the same thing are true Fallouts. I think it's too restrictive an identity if this is what you're saying. Could just be how I'm reading it.
One cannot make applesauce out of tomatoes—though they are both made with pureed red fruit; the similarities only go skin deep. Yes I include New Vegas; mechanically it's a tweaked FO3. Being a good roleplaying game does not make it a good Fallout game. The Fallout games have little in common with it.

The same goes for Larian's recent (and beautiful) hybrid Dragon Age Clone; no sequel to BG2. The same goes for InXile's pretty good Fallout Tactics clones—not Wasteland sequels; the numbered games have little in common with their namesake.

*But NV is not pushed as a Fallout sequel... FO3 & 4 most certainly are. FO4 & NV are both spin-offs' of FO3; FO3 is a spin-off of FOBOS more than of anything else.
 
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Right, so you have a stricter definition of what Fallout is. The game being isometric is one of the most integral things in this definition of what makes Fallout, Fallout?. That's fine, I just don't go that far myself. By this logic is Mario 64 also not a true/good Mario game since it's not a sidescroller?


*But NV is not pushed as a Fallout sequel...
Is it not? It is a continuation of the stories that the originals told with it's own identity specific to it thrown in, similar to how Fallout 2 has it's own identity that is similar, but also separate to Fallout 1.
 
The game being isometric is one of the most integral things in this definition of what makes Fallout, Fallout?.
No. Isometric and FPP presentations are fundamentally opposing. Isometric is better suited to a game about resolving another's situation, where FPP is all about resolving one's own situation. Lore & Setting aside, mechanically the later games seek to put the player in situ, rather than to evaluate the PC's situation. The latter games focus on "...and we're walking, we're walking, in the retro 50's theme park." rather than focusing on the world and the PC's place in it.

These games have polar opposite design goals.
A good case in point: Targeting. In Fallout, the PC always does the best that they can; the player has no agency in how accurately the PC attacks a target. In FO3 and afterward, the PC has [almost?] no agency in how the player attacks the target.


Is it not? It is a continuation of the stories that the originals told with it's own identity specific to it thrown in, similar to how Fallout 2 has it's own identity that is similar, but also separate to Fallout 1.
No. The sitcom Frasier is a spin-off of Cheers, the sitcoms Maude and The Jeffersons (for example) are a spin-offs of All In The Family... they are not continuations of the story—or even of the format. They are each their own unique beast with their own style, but with familiar ties to each other. They offer something entirely different, based upon something entirely familiar.

[This is what FO3 does; this is what FO4 does—of FO3.]

They are in effect, "If You liked Wasteland, you might like Fallout!".
*That was actually what Fallout did too...
FO_Ad.jpg
 
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No. Isometric and FPP presentations are fundamentally opposing. Isometric is better suited to a game about resolving another's situation, where FPP is all about resolving one's own situation. Lore & Setting aside, mechanically the later games seek to put the player in situ, rather than to evaluate the PC's situation. The latter games focus on "...and we're walking, we're walking, in the retro 50's theme park." rather than focusing on the world and the PC's place in it.

These games have polar opposite design goals.
A good case in point: Targeting. In Fallout, the PC always does the best that they can; the player has no agency in how accurately the PC attacks a target. In FO3 and afterward, the PC has [almost?] no agency in how the player attacks the target.
I see this themepark reference said a lot with the Beth titles and it makes sense, although, I think this will also be on the player's end as well with how they choose to interact with them game. Could you not also say that exploring the first games and being excited by discovery, etc is also themeparking in it's own way? Not the same as how Bethesda does it, but kinda similar effect in some ways. Games are inherently a digital themepark/skinner box's just with different styles. Surprising that you don't think of New Vegas as Fallout, but rather it's own separate thing entirely based on that it has first person design in spite of everything else.

I don't know about other people, but I was pretty introspective as well as constantly viewing my character in 3rd person and thinking about their place in the Mojave and the long term effects of their presence/actions. This experience isn't limited to non first person perspectives. I did not roleplay as myself in Fallout and I don't think this would really stop it from being Fallout even if I did. Like I've said, this is just too restrictive of an identity for me. I don't think you're wrong in that you have this experience of Fallout, it's just not one I have myself. There can be differences without it becoming something all together different.

At least for me and other people like me.
 
Pardon my unreliable Internet connection; for the delays. :(

Could you not also say that exploring the first games and being excited by discovery, etc is also themeparking in it's own way? Not the same as how Bethesda does it, but kinda similar effect in some ways.
A theme park is focused on the ride, or on the summarized presentation. Bethesda focuses on the spectacle of the player cast into a 50's—but not— future; it's why you see pre-war medical supplies an abandoned house 40' off a main road—untouched after 200 years. In Fallout nearly all of the public containers, or those not in lethal areas, are looted already. FO3 is a conceptual set-piece experience [like visiting a commercial haunted house], where Fallout is like visiting an abandoned nuclear test-site town.
 
The problem with open world design is that the first times an open world game was made it was because those involved were passionate and dedicated to make it work. Nowadays it's just a market study requirement that gets assigned to the C team to get it done for the Holiday release.
 
Really a shame that the centaurs got cut after the art and modeled asset were completed. Thing was fucked up.

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Modders brought it to life, but the animations are a bit wonky compared to even the base game. Might be better now though. Either way, still at least a 9/10 effort.
 
I agree with Gizmojunk to the extent that FPS Fallout makes all characters "Combat Boys" to use Sawyer and Avellone's design term.

There's nothing stopping any character, even a meek, bookish Follower of the Apocalypse from being John Wick and clearing the beating heart of Caesar's Legion without breaking a sweat. In an isometric game, this would be impossible. The ability to roleplay is severely restricted and as much as I love New Vegas the Skills become utility tools extra to what is always going to be a formidable fighter. The skills become flavouring rather than defining.

I don't think the original games handle that aspect as well as they could, but the format is better for it.
 
Honestly New Vegas follows the same continuity as the first 2 games, and is complex enough RPG-wise, as well as fitting the atmosphere of Fallout well enough that even though I agree that the FPS Fallout necessarily changes the game, it's honestly such a faithful successor in so many other ways that I can't rule it out.

I will say, unambigously, I think Fallout works best as an Isometric, but that doesn't mean a game made in the best circumstances the devs could work with is necessarily any worse.
 
Honestly New Vegas follows the same continuity as the first 2 games, and is complex enough RPG-wise, as well as fitting the atmosphere of Fallout well enough that even though I agree that the FPS Fallout necessarily changes the game, it's honestly such a faithful successor in so many other ways that I can't rule it out.

I will say, unambigously, I think Fallout works best as an Isometric, but that doesn't mean a game made in the best circumstances the devs could work with is necessarily any worse.

Completely agree.
 
I actually bought the og trilogy set on Steam and have had issues getting it to run. First game loads up and plays the intro only for the menu screen to not respond to either mouse or kb inputs. Admittedly, I didn't troubleshoot that long. got distracted by other stuff. I was given the option to choose to play in an older version for older system as well as one for more modern systems. neither changed the behavior though.

Never had this issue with a Steam game before.
 
I actually bought the og trilogy set on Steam and have had issues getting it to run. First game loads up and plays the intro only for the menu screen to not respond to either mouse or kb inputs. Admittedly, I didn't troubleshoot that long. got distracted by other stuff. I was given the option to choose to play in an older version for older system as well as one for more modern systems. neither changed the behavior though.

Never had this issue with a Steam game before.
I've had a similar experience. My laptop caused all sorts of issues with Fallout 2, including colour distortion in cutscenes, unable to being provide fullscreen, mouse not running, crashing when I start the game, ect., and each adjustment I tried would just throw a bunch of new problems.

My computer never caused those issues tho, so I have no idea what's going on there.
 
I've had a similar experience. My laptop caused all sorts of issues with Fallout 2, including colour distortion in cutscenes, unable to being provide fullscreen, mouse not running, crashing when I start the game, ect., and each adjustment I tried would just throw a bunch of new problems.

My computer never caused those issues tho, so I have no idea what's going on there.

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Is he booting up Fallout?
Yes sir.
Crash it.

Edit:
I want to edit Todd's face in, but I'm too lazy.
 
I like Fallout 4 as an action game, even if it isn't a good RPG. It's flawed, but it's fun. I can't say I love it.

The Institute might be stupid (it is) but it's miles better than every other faction in 3 and 4, because at least it has some originality to it, instead of coming straight from 1 and/or 2. The BOS and the Enclave in 3 came from California to Washington for no reason at all and with no context. In 4 the BOS gets better but not by much, and it still isn't original. The Institute is the most Fallout thing in all Bethesda Fallouts, at least in spirit
 
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