CanardPC Fallout 3 magazine Preview

[Goral]

(...)
With so many things to complain on that article you go for the one good thing. Bizarre.

This is where we differ. You think these weapons are "the one good thing" we think there are no good things.
Bethesda wanted to show their creativity so they came up with throwing into Washington some flashy, unpractical, power draining, ridiculous weapons for kids. Bravo .
Anyway, what are these weapons for when combat system is half-baked?

Edit:
As for energy weapons, as I've written before, they're totally plausible (laser guns were developed some time ago, but for now, such laser which has sensible measueremnts and weight can only blind people). On the other hand cryo- sth and mind controlling device are too far-fetched.It would be much easier to boil blood then freezing, also when someone freezed would be shot, a fragment of him could damage the one who freezed him. Weapons should be efficient, unsophisticated, cheap in production and resistan to atmospheric conditions (that's why AK-47 is still one of the most popular weapons). Since you can't see the difference it's your problem.

 

[Brother None]

Wow, you guys are jumping to conclusions to assume these weapons won't work:
- Assuming the Mesmetron is an infinite-range instant-action hypnotizer
- Assuming the Cryolater is an instant-action freeze-person weapon
- Assuming of both that they would not be secret experimental weapons that you find when exploring the bunker under Capitol Hill.

Section8 even says "we can assume it'll be charm person". No we can't. We can assume that if it is charm person, then it'll suck. But will it be? Hell, I don't know.

Also, Brian Blessed would be an awesome voice-actor for a Fallout game.

Of course I might be wrong, it's something that one day I'll have to try to see what the original Fallout devs would say.

About these kind of weapons? You know as well as I do original devs don't like to comment publicly on what Bethesda is doing, and I certainly won't forward any comments.

As for energy weapons, as I've written before, they're totally plausible (laser guns were developed some time ago, but for now, such laser which has sensible measueremnts and weight can only blind people).

Yeah, a weapon that shoots a bolt of laser is totally plausible.

Or the gatling laser.

Seriously: huh?

 

[Briosafreak]

I know, that's why I added the one day thingy.

 

[Goral]

(...)
Yeah, a weapon that shoots a bolt of laser is totally plausible.

Or the gatling laser.

Seriously: huh?

Details. It was probably easier/less demanding to the hardware to implement in the game a shot-like animation instead continuous ray which would reach taarget instantly.. Anyway, Bethesda could work on improving existing weapons so they would be more plausible instead of making new shitty ones. In Fallout 1 besides Gatling gun and Laser rifle (but only animation of the shot) all weapons were quite realistic. In Fallout 2 they overdid but still these weapons are far better than these in Fallout 3. But I already know You disagree.

 

[whirlingdervish]

I believe section 8 mentioned the reason that the mesmotron wouldn't fit, pretty clearly..

If it does anything at all that allows you to "mesmerize" or "hypnotize" your enemies from a distance, it would have been the dominant weapon choice of any army once it was prototyped, and it would have negated any form of armed combat, much like air power relegated ground forces to the background of modern combat.

The original Fallout energy weapons had a very standard purpose:

you point it over there, and it damages something over there with whatever amount of damage.

they were really no different in effect and usage (other than type of damage and the larger amount) than the pistols, rifles and other firearms.

The means of getting the damage there were sci-fi inspired and the look of the guns were too, but in the end they were just that: guns.

If the mesmotron works to subvert your enemies, without damaging them or without them noticing, then it's not a GUN, and thus a big departure from any Fallout energy weapon so far..
It's also non-lethal.

as far as we know, both the mesmotron and cryolator have the potential to be non-lethal weapons just by their names, and that takes them another step away from Fallout's ranged weapons and towards "support magic"

 

[FeelTheRads]

They weren't and neither was anything similar.

Oh yes they were.

Dude.. wtf? I think I know what weapons are in Fallout.

The point is none of them is magic disguised as weapons. I don't see any weapons in Fallout that do anything else besides.. you know.. shoot and do damage.

 

[Seymour the spore plant]

True, too much of these weapons' functionality is being assumed, and though I don't think it's below Bethesda using them as means to implement "spells" of sorts, there's not really anything to validate that line of thought yet. Maybe i'll go that way when I see a Thunderizer.

That said, I don't think the Cryolator or the Mesmetron belong in the setting at all. Just because Fallout was inspired by 50's pulp doesn't mean that both overlap perfectly, which I think is the point that Section8 was making.

Supposedly, Fallout 1 was Beth's inspiration, and looking at that list of energy weapons, I see only plasma and laser (not taking into account the Alien Blaster, as it is an easter egg) plus energy-powered melee weapons (though granted, some more realistic than the others - I'm looking at you, vibroblade). It's a very different approach to freezing rays and hypnotizing guns.

 

[Brother None]

In Fallout 1 besides Gatling gun and Laser rifle (but only animation of the shot) all weapons were quite realistic

Really? Does that mean you can figure out the physics of the plasma rifle? Because I'm pretty sure that gun is certainly impossible at our level of technology. We can't do anything with plasma. A gun that'd use a fusion reaction to make a "bolt of plasma" would evaporate its holder.

I believe section 8 mentioned the reason that the mesmotron wouldn't fit, pretty clearly..

No, Section 8 made a very good "if, then" case. But the requirements for "if" haven't been fulfilled yet.

The point is none of them is magic disguised as weapons. I don't see any weapons in Fallout that do anything else besides.. you know.. shoot and do damage.

No, but there are items that were magic disguised as weapons: the StealthBoy, the Motion Detector.

That said, I don't think the Cryolator or the Mesmetron belong in the setting at all. Just because Fallout was inspired by 50's pulp doesn't mean that both overlap perfectly, which I think is the point that Section8 was making.

True, and that problem rears its ugly head every now and again. Remember how Chuck Cuevas tried to excuse the thong-wearing babes in Fallout: BoS by showing lingerie calenders from the 50's? That doesn't work. Too much context and logical difference.

Same goes for the Davy Crockett nuke-launcher, which was never a practical weapon, and the nuclear catapult. There's too much difference in context of the cold war as it was then and the way it turned hot for Fallout.

But nothing about Fallout's 50's pulp context precludes the existence of experimental weapons with unusual functions. As long as they're experimental (and thus prone to mess up somehow), rare and not overpowered.

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

I don't think the Mesmetron fits as much as a weapon as a gadget, but the Cryolator would probrably be used to freeze joints of Combat Armor and Power Armor so they would be pretty much paralyzed. That would be a interesting way to defeat Power Armor using it's own bulk against it.

 

[Briosafreak]

But nothing about Fallout's 50's pulp context precludes the existence of experimental weapons with unusual functions. As long as they're experimental (and thus prone to mess up somehow), rare and not overpowered.

I thought that was established a long time ago, seems I was wrong.

Fallout 1 weapons.

Take the Science! weapons and you'll get less fallout, not more.

Oh well. Still it's interesting to investigate this stuff, read more on Sci fi Pulp and the Future that never was.

 

[whirlingdervish]

What would be the point of crafting a highly complex technological marvel of a weapon if it was inneficient, unreliable and not superior to conventional weaponry?

that's like fashioning a sphere out of perfectly aligned carbon atoms so that it is as hard as a diamond, just so you could bash someone's head in with it.

 

[Seymour the spore plant]

Take the Science! weapons and you'll get less fallout, not more

I don't think there's anyone here who would disagree with you there. Energy weapons are an integral part of Fallout, and fit in perfectly with their Flash Gordon look on the whole retro-futuristic setting.

But Tim Cain and co. did not deviate much from the "ray-gun" design to them, even though they must surely have known about all sorts of bizarre 50's fiction. Again, this may have been for whatever number of reasons, but I think it kinda does preclude on a lot of weapon designs.

What would be the point of crafting a highly complex technological marvel of a weapon if it was inneficient, unreliable and not superior to conventional weaponry?

Well, BN was talking prototypes, so it would be all experimental here. But, on the other hand, the only experimental weapon in Fallout so far was the XL70E3, which I think is kind of telling - before the war, even though they already had energy weapons, they were still actively developing conventional firearms, and not only trying out bizarre guns.

 

[whirlingdervish]

I guess what I'm getting at is, given that the world is still the "world of Fallout", and the nuclear war went down as we've been told, I wouldn't expect to see enough cyrolators or mesmotrons produced that you could actually find one unless you found your way into the very lab that they were being secretly tested in (since nobody ever mentioned anything like them in either FO1 or 2 they weren't commonly know weapons or in use in militaries yet), and after that you'd never find ammo for it again...

It's the same problem I see with the fatman and it's use in the game. Where would you expect to find an extra football sized nuke laying around?

any one of these three weapons, from the information that we've gotten so far, would seem to revolutionize the face of modern warfare and render most projectile weapons (energy and conventional) completely obsolete.

since we know this didn't happen by evidence given in Fallout that the war was fought with armor and guns and finished with nukes, we're forced to add the condition that they must have just been experimental so they don't break the gameworld and it's history..

we have to place conditions on them to even fit them into Fallout's world, like they must be impracticle, hard to reload, rare, experimental, etc...

I have strong doubts about Bethesda using the same criteria that we would for placing new weapons in the Fallout world, and actually trying to explain them and their existence in a way that doesn't break continuity.

 

[Goral]

Does that mean you can figure out the physics of the plasma rifle? Because I'm pretty sure that gun is certainly impossible at our level of technology. We can't do anything with plasma. A gun that'd use a fusion reaction to make a "bolt of plasma" would evaporate its holder.
(...)

Well, sth like magnetic traps are being used to deal with containing substance at extremely high temperatures, plasma for example, or Bose-Einstein condensation (which is considered as 5th state of matter), so in theory it is possible. But even if it's impossible, the weapon's name doesn't have to be a fitting name (grenade for example, mine, or a cannon named Thunderbolt).
As for stealth boy - http://www.star.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/projects/rpt/index.php
As for motion detector/sensor - http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/civil/comm_port/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_detector
Of course they're far from these in Fallout but they certainly could be considered as very early prototypes. Heck, I bet that motion sensors are already used by military (I could swear I've seen such device on discovery), maybe they can't distinguish living beings but still.

 

[Black]

I don't like these weapons. Freeze-gun sounds like something ripped from Duke Nuke'em and this whole Mesmerton smells like Charm spell in disguise. I have no idea whether they're SCIENCE! or not, but they do not seem Fallouty to me.
Drugs which cause a person very vulnerable to suggestions seems ok. A hypnotize gun doesn't.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

I think there would have been a device using CODE in Van Buren, this device could transmit simple instructions like 'drop your gun''or 'shoot your friend' to the minds of people, but outside that it wouldn't be full mind control unlike the full CODE treatment which of course would take a lot longer to carry out.

Have to look it up on the Vault Wiki again.

 

[Genoq]

Well, sth like magnetic traps are being used to deal with containing substance at extremely high temperatures, plasma for example, or Bose-Einstein condensation (which is considered as 5th state of matter), so in theory it is possible.

It is clear from this and other posts of yours that you know almost nothing about even the very basics of physics, so allow me to enlighten you. First, the most irritating blunder you made is to include Bose-Einstein condensates in your listed examples of "extremely high temperature" substances, In fact, they are one of the few phenomena in the observable universe that begin to approach absolute zero, or zero degrees Kelvin, the lowest temperature possible. The only thing that can reach absolute zero is a perfect vacuum, a state of absolute nothingness, and thats definitely a far cry from the "extremely high temperatures" you speak of.

Second, you make the mistake of implying that "magnetic traps" as you call them, are capable of containing any substance of a very high temperature, as if that somehow qualifies the substance for magnetic manipulation. Whether any non-electrically charged substance respondes to a magnetic field depends on a number of factors, such as paramagnetism (attracted), diamagnetism (repelled), or ferromagnetism (has it's own permanent field), simply being very hot is insufficient.

Third, Plasma is, in this case, an ionized gas. Meaning it is a gas that has been exposed to sufficiently high energies to have some proportion of its atoms lose or gain an electron, giving the gas a positive or negative charge, respectively. Because plasma is electrically charged, it can be manipulated by either electromagnetic or electrostatic fields, however, most plasmas are a combination of ionized and non ionized atoms, the latter making the gas much more difficult to move. In fact, the vast majority of artificial plasmas have only a small fraction of there total atoms ionized, making magnetic manipulation very difficult. Imagine throwing a chunk of iron at a large magnet, would it stick? Of course. But what if that iron chunk is surrounded by many more lead chunks, would it still stick? Probably not.

Edit: I know the iron chunk analogy is shit, but I could not think of a better one. I also know that the explanations I gave for magnetism and plasma are overly simplistic, but without writing pages of theory and technical jargon that this guy would never understand, it's the best I can do.

 

[Goral]

First, the most irritating blunder you made is to include Bose-Einstein condensates in your listed examples of "extremely high temperature" substances, In fact, they are one of the few phenomena in the observable universe that begin to approach absolute zero, or zero degrees Kelvin, the lowest temperature possible.

This was caused by bad punctuation not that I didn't know. Nonetheless I don't deny that I no nothing about physics.

Second, you make the mistake of implying that "magnetic traps" as you call them, are capable of containing any substance of a very high temperature, as if that somehow qualifies the substance for magnetic manipulation. (...)

You're making a mistake of misreading.

Well, sth like magnetic traps are being used to deal with containing substance at extremely high temperatures, plasma for example, or Bose-Einstein condensation (which is considered as 5th state of matter), so in theory it is possible.

I didn't write that these "magnetic traps" can be used to contain "any substance".
Also, clearly You don't know anything about this matter either, because that's what it's called, "magnetic traps", I didn't make it up.
Oh, and although I'm not good at physics I used to use Maxwell's equations and I know calculus a bit (even though problems I solved were the simplest ones, but it wasn't elementary school level).

Anyway, I was just trying to reply to Brother None, searched here and there and wrote what I've written. Notice that after I mentioned about "magnetic traps" I emphasized that I have doubts (and indirectly I admitted that I don't know if it's possible read: "maybe this could be a solution but I don't know"). Sorry for offending you by lack of my physics knowledge.

 

[reza]

Sorry if it had been mentioned before. Just want to say that it seems the music for New Reno is a rip-off of Jerry Goldsmith music for Basic Instinct.

I wonder who is going to make the orchestral music for Fallout 3, hopefully a famous composer, such as Michael Giacchino who did the music for Call of Duty.

 

[Roshambo]

*snip*