Chris Avellone talks Fallout 3

[Ausir]

There are so many places giving out GotY awards these days that just about any AAA game will get at least one.

Who else would've picked up the Fallout franchise?

Troika, for one. Bethesda wasn't the only bidder for the license, just the highest one.

 

[Jet1337]

Troika went down under, too, so who else is was left?

It's a sad fact that when any dev picks up another dev's IP, they don't keep the original dev's vision. It's like what if Midway lost the MK rights to another dev. It just wouldn't be the same and I can relate to what happened here.

Maybe if Obsidian does a good job on NV, then maybe Bethesda will take some pointers on how Fallout should be. If the original devs of the franchise can't make a turn-around for the game, then maybe Bethesda was going in the right direction for the series.

 

[SharkClub]

Troika went down under, too, so who else is was left?

Activision was going to buy the IP and have Troika develop it, if I recall correctly (not sure, help me out here Ausir). If this was successful who knows where they'd would be now.

It's a sad fact that when any dev picks up another dev's IP, they don't keep the original dev's vision.

I would like to see where this is stated as a fact.

And I'm pretty sure Troika would have known how to handle Fallout properly.
Hurr durr herp derp.

 

[Ausir]

Troika went down under, too, so who else is was left?

This was going to be a joint bid with Activision, which would publish it, so Troika would live at least one game longer. As for the other bidders, I know only that they existed, not who exactly they were.

 

[draeke]

A horrible sequel isn't any better than no sequel at all.

Fallout 3 is a poor sequel to Fallout 2. It resembles a spin-off, rather than an actual, proper sequel. The gameplay is entirely different for starters. The writing is worse, and is quite inconsistent. It blatantly ignored several things in previous games, like the fact that FEV couldnt have been in East Coast, since the only sample of FEV was supposed to be in Mariposa, which was in the West Coast.

I cant be really an old jaded bastard now can i ?

Ya, yes you can absolutely, I actually tried to enjoy FO3 for what it was, but it was clearly not Fallouty in the true respect. I have actually gone from lurking to way more outspoken lately simply because of the fact I am not happy with the content and potential future content. I have been one of the faithful since FO1, and just lurked and never said anything and lost a login or two because of it but I can no longer stay silent. I feel your pain in that it should not be called a proper sequel, but what are you going to do when they're bought out. I think we have to speak out as much as we can on our site and mind you the dev's will read it. I honestly hope to god they will, more so that than the previous dev's.

 

[el_jefe_of_ny]

This saddens me deeply!

Troika made my most favorite rpg ever, Masquerade: bloodlines.

Jeez. Also really good at drawing women

To be honest, I saw elements of that game completely copied to FO3. THat is odd how there wasa relationship now. That was a good gaming company. I can't believe it almost had FO3. jeez. depressing!

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Troika went down under, too, so who else is was left?

Activision was going to buy the IP and have Troika develop it, if I recall correctly (not sure, help me out here Ausir). If this was successful who knows where they'd would be now.

Hell, they even started developing a new PA game, back in 2004 before they went under, which may have as well been the new fallout if they got the IP. They already had a working engine and all: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5788

@el_jefe_of_ny: They made my favourite, too. It's called TOEE. Just imagine a FO sequel with the combat mechanics from TOEE applied to it.

 

[Dionysus]

So you're saying that an area has a point if it has good loot?
I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree wildly with that.

Agreed, as much as I liked what I saw in the 'negatives' part of the Avellone article, I didn't think I'd actually see someone making a comment of loot over design. I'm thinking Jet1337 completely missed the point. "oh coolz! this Obliv.. err/FO3 locale has a Shotgun +2!!!1!"

It's a mistake to think that loot isn't part of the design. It's pretty obvious that loot can be a reward for exploration in an open-world RPG. It is nice when you can find or advance a quest, but making your character more powerful is always one of the main drives in the game.

But I do agree that Old Olney had skimpy rewards considering the threat. It would have been better if it was tied to a quest. I think it only interacted with The Republic of Dave quest, which was neat, but there could have been more of a reward for exploring the town.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Agreed, the problem is not using loot as part of design, it's all about balancing task and reward.

Although then again, using loot as the ONLY design tool is usually kind of lame. I mean, it's almost a no-brainer that you're supposed to get some good loot after a long, difficult dungeon, but having some sort of story/quest tied to it makes the progress actually interesting and engaging.

 

[Dionysus]

Agreed, the problem is not using loot as part of design, it's all about balancing task and reward.

Although then again, using loot as the ONLY design tool is usually kind of lame. I mean, it's almost a no-brainer that you're supposed to get some good loot after a long, difficult dungeon, but having some sort of story/quest tied to it makes the progress actually interesting and engaging.

Well, the loot needs to be useful for something. Oblivion, for example, has plenty of dungeons with plenty of loot, but there's no reason to dive into a random dungeon because you won't find any unique or powerful loot, and you don't really need unique or powerful loot because you'll hardly ever fight anyone that isn't scaled to your level. Mass Effect had the same problem. The loot was the same everywhere, and you didn't need it anyway. But in Starflight or Star Control 2, you explore random planets in part because you really need loot in order to make progress on your quest.

I'd say that Morrowind and Fallout 3 both do a decent job of giving the player reasons to explore. The big problem is that they want to make the main quest open to more casual gamers that just want to follow the quest compass. I think future Bethesda games could benefit from having a big non-scaled side quest that relies on exploration to find clues and advance the quest at many different locations. Basically, they could bury a Starflight-style quest within the game.

 

[terebikun]

Maybe Avellone just liked Fallout 3? Maybe? I know Yahtzee liking it was quite a blow to some people, but you're going to have to accept that people like this game.

You know, the reason there's no instant travel in WoW is to make the world feel big, right? Perception(Time) = Space.

Except for, you know, the hearthstone.

 

[Paperbag Boy]

Except for, you know, the hearthstone.

Also, the gryphons/wyverns made for the fastest travel possible between regions. It's not like you HAD to walk everywhere.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

I dunno, I had plenty of bad experiences in FO3. I'd explore a dungeon for, say, an hour, only to find absolutely nothing at the end - an empty room with a half-broken machine gun; no explanation as to what the location is, no good loot, no nothing. Part of the reason I never finished the game.

I don't think it's a problem that they want to streamline the main quest. I personally hate random exploration not tied to quests, and hate it even more if the game forces me to do it. I should be able to speed through the game if I wanted to. The problem is, the main quest is still full of necessary yawn-inducing exploration, partly because of bad level design, partly because of the concerns I wrote in another thread about map design.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

yeah ... but ... but maybe ... eventualy some enjoyed their job for Bethesda ? Did you ... ever thought about that? After they got lobotomized its not like they had any other choice then to love them.

You're misunderstanding what I said, Crni.

 

[Ulysses]

This is Fallout's fate. Interplay had to lay off BIS. Who else would've picked up the Fallout franchise? Would your rather see it die and not come back at all? I'm not sure any other dev would've picked up the franchise, and even if there was I'm sure the quality of the game would've been worse than what Bethesda has done.

Frankly, yeah, I wouldn't have minded the series stopping after 2.

 

[BR4ZIL]

Pretty much:

"Better death than Beth"

 

[el_jefe_of_ny]

MOrrowind was awesome. I really still love that game. Oblivion was so illy planned and thought out, it was spooky.

hm. I duno what else I like that they made. I didnt dislike fallout3, it just wasnt fallout.

The ability to screw up fallout3 is so exceedingly difficult though that it just makes everyone write off Bethesda for the tards they are.

 

[Jet1337]

It's a sad fact that when any dev picks up another dev's IP, they don't keep the original dev's vision.

I would like to see where this is stated as a fact.

According to the jaded Fallout fans, Fallout 3 is living proof.

 

[Crni Vuk]

yeah ... but ... but maybe ... eventualy some enjoyed their job for Bethesda ? Did you ... ever thought about that? After they got lobotomized its not like they had any other choice then to love them.

You're misunderstanding what I said, Crni.

Naw I was justbeeing silly. After I have read your post a second time I somewhat have a idea what you meant.

 

[SharkClub]

It's a sad fact that when any dev picks up another dev's IP, they don't keep the original dev's vision.

I would like to see where this is stated as a fact.

According to the jaded Fallout fans, Fallout 3 is living proof.

Ok, let's look it over here.

"It is a sad fact" < "FACT"
"that when a dev picks up another dev's IP" < Not necessarily the Fallout IP with Interplay and Bethesda.
"they don't keep the original dev's vision." < You are going by Bethesda alone with this "fact".

So no, It's not a fact, you dimwit. It may be factual for Bethesda, Interplay and Fallout. But it's not a fact overall, like you have stated in a way which is unrelated to Fallout, Bethesda and Interplay.

And shut up with the "jaded Fallout fans".