Dark Souls

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by GuYem, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    Like clockworked. Epic was the most glaring example, but I'm sure a quick research will turn up many of these.

    About DS, it seems like a really nice game, but yeah if it's a crappy port with GFWL it will wait until a price drop at the very least.
     
  2. rcorporon

    rcorporon So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
    Orderite

    Jan 31, 2008
    Why all the hate for GFWL? I've never used it so I honestly don't know.
     
  3. sea

    sea Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 5, 2009
    It has a lot of problems.

    1) Fundamentally flawed. Having a DRM client that only really works from inside games itself is very awkward and severely discourages many of its features (like friends list support). Instead of a thriving community, they have dead games with dead multiplayer modes, no mods or fan patches, no nothing. This is where Steam and other platforms have excelled in comparison. Time has shown players either want a full client with lots of features, or a simple store without any fluff - Games for Windows LIVE straddles the line and is weaker for it.

    2) Poor update process. Want to play a Games for Windows LIVE title? Here's how it goes: download your game, install your game, install Games for Windows LIVE, start game, log in to Games for Windows LIVE (or make an account), download update, turn off game, install update, start game, download another update, turn off game, install update, start game, log in (because it forgot your username and password in the meantime), and finally play. This process alone can sometimes take 20-30 minutes extra.

    3) Buggy as all hell. I don't think there's a gamer who's used LIVE without running into problems. Region issues? Check. Crashes? Check. Corrupt installers? Check. Reliance on additional Windows services that many users disable? Check. Forgetting your games' CD keys? Check. It's basically the worst of DRM - instead of being unobtrusive and easy, it requires your full attention and can sometimes render your games unplayable.

    4) Interface is awful. "Design a UI that's intended to be used with both a gamepad and a keyboard? And looks good on both a PC and a TV? Sounds great!" Of course, it's not, and the end result is something that uses like 25% of the available screen space, puts emphasis on flashy aesthetic rather than quick functionality, many options are needlessly buried, etc. Heck, even looking at achievements, the number one thing I do with LIVE, takes something like five or six keystrokes. Good job, guys!

    5) Often conflicts with other game overlays. This has mostly been cleared up, but I remember a few years ago that mixing the Steam and Games for Windows LIVE overlays would invoke the Great Crash Demon and in some cases would render one or the other overlay unusable.

    6) Forced Games for Windows LIVE standards. Any game wanting to bear the prestigious LIVE title must adhere to some very strict protocols Microsoft have for things like DLC, online play, etc. Usually this means most LIVE titles have awful matchmaking (because Microsoft's TrueSkill system or whatever it's called is junk), that games default to the gamepad you have plugged in rather than the mouse and keyboard, and so on. These have been loosened in the last few years, however.

    So yeah, it sucks. See herefor more details:

    http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=8059
     
  4. PainlessDocM

    PainlessDocM Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 5, 2010
    -You need to create an account in order to save your game.
    -Seemingly randomly disappearing save games.
    -Very "mediocre" online capabilities (Example: I can't even play lag free against RL friends who live in the same city...)
    -Shitty interface that isn't suited for PC.

    These are just some problems I have personally encountered, there are no doubt many more issues.

    edit: ninja'd
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    since Live didn't allowed me to play Bioschock2 for 2 ours I started to hate it.

    But honestly I hate SWFL (shit for windows life) already since the first time I had it on my system. It never ever worked "well" for me. Maybe I am just super unlucky. No clue. But almost EVERY game I had which used it I had trouble with. Either very long updates, (sure my bad I don't use it often still ...), or it tells that I cant log in with that account ... even though all the informations are correct. And then suddenly after the some time it works ...

    No clue. But I never liked such kind of DRM systems. Its the "best" thing for gaming they say. It offers so many options. Well. I am old school. I admit it. I don't give a shit for trophyies, points, and what ever else is used to enlarge your e-penis. I was happy with Blood 2 the way how it worked. I was happy playing Unreal Tournament with my friends without those useless "stats". I liked Counter Strike with all the mods for it.

    Now? You have to sometimes money just to get "maps" ... if something is killing gaming for me it are not the pirates. It are greedy companies.

    Did I said I love kick starter?
     
  6. Mutoes

    Mutoes Mildly Dipped

    Feb 5, 2008
    Only game i ever played with GFWL was arkham asylym, didnt have any problems with it. AA didnt have much of online content/play to begin with though.
     
  7. Alphadrop

    Alphadrop A right proper chap.

    Aug 21, 2008
    Gotta admit had a positive Number 3 which meant GFWL crashed on startup but I could still play the game just fine. Shame it appears to have fixed itself.
     
  8. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

    And I considered to buy that ... :cry:
     
  9. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    GFWL sure is a Turn off, I recently experienced the horros of that.... thing while playing Arkham City and losing 2 days of gameplay because I changed my GFWL nickname, and I am not allowed to buy the DLCs because the stupid site tells me that they are blocked on my country.... so yeah.... I guess I am gonna have to play this on console...
     
  10. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    Ah, but it's a forgone conclusion. It's common knowledge in videogame publicity and journalism that crappy console ports no one wants are the fault of the dirty pirates. And since there's so little logic in that statement, it's highly unlikely that it's debunked by the use thereof anytime soon. It'd probably take yet another similarly inane statement.
     
  11. Starseeker

    Starseeker Vault Senior Citizen

    Jul 25, 2003
    Well, seeing as how I am just farming trophies now, I guess I'll put up some thoughts here.

    Havoc engine still suck, and it has nothing to do with graphics. If one considers the fact that death has such huge ingame consequences, then the engine choice itself is a failure. Collusion problems still persist, so do the hit box problems and instant death polygon voids (haven't seen much of those since 97, ah, the nostalgia). I don't know if they are delusional or just didn't learn, but putting "platform style gaming" in this game with the engine and its mechanics are just asking for annoyance. Demons' Souls' ch 2-2 made a comeback in the Great Hollow, which you are required to traverse to get to Ash Lake. Even if people keep telling me that it's "optional", there is a boss and a covenant down there, and not to mention a quest chain ends there. Even if I ignore all the shiny geckos, getting down there is still a pain.

    Anyway, ignoring the control and game mechanics problems that are caused by the engine and can possibly be a deal breaker for some, this game is alright.

    The graphics are more polished than before, and the some of the voice overs are quite well done which was surprising. Of course, having one actress portraying several different characters did break the immersion. Some quest glitches are still around even after 1.05 patch. Most of the patches seem to be focused on nerfing a lot of things to make the game more "difficult" for some. As of 1.05, the Forest Hunter covenant, Knight Lautrec, Solaire and Patches glitches still seem to depend on your luck. If you don't want to be hunted online as a sinner, then don't go near the forest unless you are just farming mosses and staying the hell away from the Forest Hunters.

    As for the supposed difficulty of the game, well, one shouldn't believe the hype unless one plays it and judges it for one's self. In my experience, the engine and the actual environment will kill you more times than enemies or bosses, in that order. As long as you pay attention to where you are going and pull aggro carefully so you usually end up fighting one on one, then you will be fine. Regular enemies are way more annoying than most bosses, and some quickly spring to mind - magically enhanced undead crystal archers, darkwraith knights (the most annoying move in the game, humanity sucking grab :roll: ) , ghosts, engorged zombies, harpies or wheel skeletons just to name a few. Annoying locations will include the usual, such as the aforementioned Great Hollow (a jumping platform game where you can't jump, yea!) , Crystal Cave (invisible walkway? a long trek to the only blue slab in the game while walking in mid air? check and check), and New Londo Ruins (a place made more annoying by its residents, however the map will be easier once you get the key to open the flood gate).

    Blight Town wasn't as bad as everyone made out to be, since as long as you enter through the "exit" from the New Londo Ruins' elevator, you can practically backstab everything (and the famous blowdart snipers lose their vantage points). Btw, the graphic slow down is do to the mobs pathfinding calculations, so it has nothing to do with graphics. If the swamp gives you problems, grab the rusted iron ring from the beginning area. The mosquitoes can be eliminated entirely, since they only spawns in pairs of 2 and ends after 4 - 5 waves at each location. Tomb of Giants wasn't that bad either, but that's probably because I picked up the light spell and the enhanced duration ring. The enemies weren't that bad, and even if you are a melee build, you can clear the map using bought pyromancies. You just need to make sure you spend the souls to upgrade the gloves, and buying the bellowing ring off Griggs before he goes so you can get the 20% bonus damage. If you didn't spend any souls on spell slots, then you are out of luck here.

    As for the bosses, only 2 gave me trouble, one is the hellkite wyvern and the other is the stray demon. The first one is because on your fire run, you won't have much gear to deal with him when you find him, and the location makes it a difficult fight. I ended up using the pull aggro with arrows and attempt to aim the drake sword at his head on where he might land tactic. Stray demon was a pain because I was sleep deprived and I tried to brute force it, which was stupid and I died like 8 times. I didn't have poise so obviously that wouldn't work seeing he has a lot of staggering attacks. A bit of poise and running behind him plus a few well aimed spells, and voila, dead demon.

    Most of the other bosses were fine, since you can call on meat shields( NPCs too, no online required) to pull aggro for you ( on quite a lot of them) and you can just bust out whatever the biggest attack you have and learn to block or roll away from attacks should they come your way.

    Anyway, all in all, if you have the patience, I would recommend the game. Given its inherent problems and the glitches/bugs that probably won't be fixed in a new patch, I can't give it a high score. In my pov, probably 6.5/10.
     
  12. Wastewander

    Wastewander It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jul 6, 2011
  13. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    Not so fast. Dawn of War II required both Steam and GFWL. They can still force this BS upon us yet.

    If it is purely Steamworks, then I will consider an earlier purchase.
     
  14. fedaykin

    fedaykin Vault Fossil

    Jul 15, 2007
    The article seems to imply that a GFWL version will exist separately:
    "There's a Games for Windows - Live version that will be sold in shops. "

    I wish the developer just came out and clarified things.
     
  15. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    so I picked up Dark Souls on Steam today. and was hugely disappointed. it's a pretty horrible port, in fact one of the worst I have ever seen. it's like they didn't even try. the symbols for the Xbox controller are still in the menus and tutorial messages, the camera stutters and is really wonky, controls are all over the place (using END to bring up the menu instead of ESC for example) and graphics are pretty crap.

    still, the game is so god damn fun that I've been able to put up with this horror for a few hours at least. but I really really hope they patch this shit up soon. or else I may try to get a refund and just get it for the PS3 instead.
     
  16. Dario ff

    Dario ff Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Aug 19, 2008
    I wish I could even buy it, GFWL games are apparently blocked in quite a number of countries. Mine is, for whatever reason, so it doesn't appear at all, nor can anyone gift it to me.

    You could argue that there's ways to work around this(by using fake information), but is this how they're expecting to get a sale? I'm going to be amused when they bring up piracy rates as an excuse later, when we can't even get the game by any other means apparently. It sure seems to make that whole "lost sale" argument a lot less true. :|
     
  17. Mutoes

    Mutoes Mildly Dipped

    Feb 5, 2008
    Did you try the mod fix to get higher res, also it removes the white mouse cursor from the game (thisportislulz) just remember to read the readme and turn of ingame aa and motion blur.
    http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?p=101

    I found the mouse/KB to be so badly implemented that i dusted my old ps3 controller and hooked it to the pc instead, now its a lot more playable. If any of you happen to have extra ps3 controllers laying somewhere and have win7 i suggest trying Motioninjoy, it has built in xbox360 controller emulation that worked without any extra hastle in DS.
     
  18. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    Welp, no purchase for me then. I appreciate the lower price and included DLC, but it doesn,t matter if I can't play a PC game without a controller. It's not a matter of principle or belief in the PC master race or anything, I just don't have one and don't want to cough up 30-40 $ for one to play one game.

    I mean, really, Xbox buttons on help tutorials? Mouse visible on screen? Ridiculous key binds? And people thought Darksiders II was an half-assed port. I only needed to rebind two keys to play that game perfectly on M&KB.

    I'm sure the game itself is good, but I'm not encouraging such a bad port.

    Also, does the Steam version also come with GFWL in the end?
     
  19. Makagulfazel

    Makagulfazel Adept Bungler of Things Orderite

    Jun 14, 2007
    aenemic strikes true again! A seriously terrible port I couldn't put down for the first few hours. To add to the troubles, the performance is pretty bad, with FPS dropping down to 15 at several locations. I need to stick it out on PC, though - don't have it in me to neglect my Steam overlay.

    P.S. Besides the mouse stutter, a lot of the horrid control scheme can be changed in-game. I'm probably going to try some of the fixes posted on the Steam forums tonight. Thanks for the link, Mutoes.
     
  20. Mutoes

    Mutoes Mildly Dipped

    Feb 5, 2008
    Yeah i think if i had fiddled enough with the keybindings and camera speed (mouse look speed) i think it might have been playable with M+KB.

    My main problem with the mouse+KB was that for some reason when i touched the edge of the screen (mouse cursor moves when moving camera, even with the invisible mouse cursor fix) it threw me into windows couple of times completely randomly, with windowed and full screen (might have had something to do with the high res fix or not). I decided to take the easy way out there with the ps3 pad.