Desslock and Fallout combat/viewpoint

taxacaria said:
The quality of a game depends not on killable children.
It's more a question of taste. I don't need it personally.
On the other hand, ingame children can make a setting more realistic and more reliable.
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To me, more realistic setting = better quality ;) .

taxacaria said:
In Oblivion, which has no implemented children, you'll find sterile cities.
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Yes. I thing that it's a big problem. I remember that when I played Arcanum (another childless cRPG), the world seemed to be depressing and half-dead - when I think about it now, I see that it was because it lacked children - the presence of children makes the world seem to be alive. Same for P:T...

No children, no life, no future...
In RL, people care for children, not only because of family relations, but also, children represent future generations and hope.

A world without children is a dying world :( .

taxacaria said:
In JA2 you can kill children - but only with a few 'bad guy' mercenaries.
Doing this results in bad reputation. City life is more reliable here.
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This brings another important subject - how NPCs react to orders.
It was weird that in Fallout/Baldur's Gate, all NPCs were willing to ruthlessly slaughter innoncent civilians, including children.
 
Sorrow, you should watch the movie Children Of Men. It really shows what a world without children looks like...
 
To be able to kill everything that moves is very essential to me in a game. I was very disappointed when i first played fallout 2 and killed the village elder and had to start all over again. But maybe that's just fucked up old me.
 
I want kids in the games,like written it adds more life,even if it's just one like in Arx fatalis or some that pokes a squirrel with a stick,like in IWD...
Personally I don't mind if they're can't be killed,since I never play as some childkiller,but I want them in the game.(I'm not judging anyone that wants to kill pixelated kids,I'm just stating my opinion on why I don't care if they can't be hurt)
 
Rainstorm said:
Personally I don't mind if they're can't be killed,since I never play as some childkiller,but I want them in the game.(I'm not judging anyone that wants to kill pixelated kids,I'm just stating my opinion on why I don't care if they can't be hurt)
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I mind unkillable children/civilians/adult men, etc. Unkillable characters just scream "It's a game! It's a game!!". I stopped playing NWN after discovering that I can't kill some (non-plot critical) characters.
 
We can only agree to disagree on that...(adult civilians is another thing,I only mentioned and meant kids)
Like written I can understand the view and am not against it,but I will never know if I can or can't kill the kids,hence it won't matter to _me_....
 
There's not much point in having kids if you can't interact with them the same way you can other NPCs. I mean, it's really just pure flavor at that point.
 
Very true Bradylama...and the flavour/life of them is all that _I personally_ need...

The matter will forever be something revolving personal preferences and whether or not you ever test the limits.
The way I play I won't kill a child,hence from my personal perspective I will never know if I can kill them or not,so I won't notice if they're godlike or not.

Like written,I don't care whether or not I can kill them,you want them killeable,fine by me...I won't object if they are...but it still won't matter to me....
 
Rainstorm: I think it matters to everyone more or less. Someone may be killed by a mistake, eg. with explosives. It would be stupid if a child that should be blown up doesn't even notice the explosion. If a game world is cruel and people are killed then so are children.
 
Again true,but if such occured I'd reload at the last savepoint and do it all over again,making sure I get the kid's out of the way....('cause if we speak of interaction I should also be able to scare/talk/otherwise get the child out of harms way)
Otherwise I -or anyone that plays like I do- would be the ones feeling let down by what the game allows me to do...and we'd feel the "It's a game,it's a game"...

It's impossible to make a game follow every gamers choice on how to handle every situation in it...and as is clear in this discussion it's a two-headed coin,one side will show when it lands...

If the kids aren't scripted to stand around and get blown up for no other reason than the maker wanting it to happen.(which most likely would only be done to provoke some feeling)
I -for the third time or so- still won't mind if they are killeable,but give me some way of getting them out of the way...because I have never killed any kid,even by accident in any of the times I have played the two Fallouts....(with kids I of course mean the children and not the kids that were the older parts of the family in New Reno...with the destillery,don't remember name now...I never gave a gun to the children outside when they wanted it)

Maybe I've made the reason why I personally can't be bothered whether or not they are godlike a bit more clear now?
I do not want to kill a child and if they are -like the rest- possible to kill,I want some way to make sure I don't kill them,even if I have to scare them away...(and that should also please all of you,since it adds immersion,or?)
I mean,show me a kid under 11 that an adult can't scare and I'll show you a psycopath....
 
Or. Killing children (by accident) adds a certain moral ambiguity to a game that is sorely lacking today. Take for an example a warlord who lives in a village and is surrounded all the time by his many children. He may seem like an evil character to you but to many his cause may be just. Are you justified in killing him if it also means killing the children?

Immortal and/or missing characters take away enormously from a game. Just ask players in Britain who may never have discovered SAD.
 
Killing innocents may be justified,but why would they have to be kids...it's not too hard for the maker of the game have him surrounded by innocent farmers and thereby pose the same moral question,or?

Also I'd think that you could be able to do a suicidal run at him wielding a knife,I mean,there are only kids around him any way and they would more than likely be easy to run straight through...(and with good enough stats he won't be much of a problem...or,if he is,run at him,stab him and then run away,I'm sure he'd follow,whereas the kids won't)

Just a couple of scenarios that would allow the kids to be killed,but still would let me (and other players that plays like me) refrain from hurting them...
 
DirtyDreamDesigner said:
Or. Killing children (by accident) adds a certain moral ambiguity to a game that is sorely lacking today. Take for an example a warlord who lives in a village and is surrounded all the time by his many children. He may seem like an evil character to you but to many his cause may be just. Are you justified in killing him if it also means killing the children?
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It depends on their behavior - what are they doing when you're going to kill the father?
Children shouldn't be possible enemies in games.

I remember a quest in Baldur's Gate where a child was searching for a doggie - and turned into an ogre at the end of the quest.
Would you call that NPC a child or an ogre?

I mean it's possible to implement a moral bonus in games. (some have one already).
Let's say if you kill children, you will not be rewarded by loot, exp or other advancements and your reputation goes down.
 
About moral ambiguity:
Two words:
Raider kids.

According to the FB, raiders raise their kids in camps, which means that there should be kids in raider camps. I suspect that they teach them how to use guns.
Black Hawk Down anyone?

As for preferences...
I stopped playing "myself" in cRPGs long, long, long ago :) .
I like playing different characters ranging from do-gooders to psychopats, which means that sooner or later, civilians die.
 
It's your choice sorrow....I will keep playing the way I do...am I not allowed to do that?
It's all a part of the freedom within the game we all strive for,to be able to play as we wish...and I haven't said that childkillers can't play the way they want,why am I not allowed to play the way I want?
Like written more than once,killable kids are fine with me,as long as I have the option to not do it...just like you have the option to do it...
 
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