Devil May Cry

[UncannyGarlic]

I agree with you on that, but then why do people would care even if all the lies and corruption of the plot of DmC were true? You don't need to care or like the character, then why would it matter if Dante is a douche?

It's a question of entertainment. The old Dante was entertaining because he was a cheese ball whereas, the argument goes, the new one is unlikable. The former was funny at best and stupid at worst whereas the new one creates an investment from the player. At best it makes the experience more enjoyable and at worst it aggravates the player, damaging the experience.

I think that the Fallout vs Fallout 3 comparison is too extreme but it would seem like Team Ninja has some characters that are similar in some ways to Bethesda. There seems to be an attitude with the creative controllers that what came before is irrelevant and a mockery and dismissal of some of the elements that many of the fans liked. For Fallout the mockery was of the mechanics whereas DMC it was for the characters and tone of the game.

This meant that instead of going back to the core of the characters and re-imagining them from there, they pretty much took the most general plot summary of DMC 1&3 and went from there, redesigning all of the characters from the ground up. It's a dangerous route to take because if you don't execute it well enough you'll get hammered for it.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

playable mouse+keyboard support

Why would you play a game like this without a pad...?

Why wouldn't you want play a PC game using PC controls? I mean, I realize that many gamers have been beaten into submission by countless crappy console ports, but I feel like this should be a no-brainer.

Regardless of whether you prefer to use additional devices to play a game, I think it's the direct responsibility of any developer to make a game playable/enjoyable with the basic hardware, and the quality of such controls defines the crappiness level of the port. I mean, have you ever seen a port from PC to console requiring you to connect M+Kb to play?

Controls in DMC3/4 made it seem like they didn't even care to try.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

playable mouse+keyboard support

Why would you play a game like this without a pad...?

Why wouldn't you want play a PC game using PC controls? I mean, I realize that many gamers have been beaten into submission by countless crappy console ports, but I feel like this should be a no-brainer.

I'm not sure I follow. Certain genres rely on specific controllers for an optimal experience. You can play a flight simulator with the keyboard but it's a no-brainer that it's supposed to be played with a stick. You can play a rail shooter with the pad but it's a no brainer that it's supposed to be played with a wiimote/PS Move/light gun. Same thing with a game like DMC/DmC.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I don't think there's any valid argument against the games needing to be playable with a mouse and keyboard. That doesn't mean that it needs to be the best control scheme but it should be able to get you through the game with minimal amounts of control screw.

 

[Multidirectional]

I honestly think people bitching that new Dante is a "douchebag" and defending old one as a "likeable cheesy guy" is one of the most extreme examples of gamer idiocy I've ever encountered.
And leaving aside the story nonsense, new DMC is not a bad game in any way.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

I honestly think people bitching that new Dante is a "douchebag" and defending old one as a "likeable cheesy guy" is one of the most extreme examples of gamer idiocy I've ever encountered.

You clearly don't read much about gaming communities. Great contribution to the discussion. Truth be told, a lot of it comes down to taste. DMC3's Dante was a douche but in such a flamboyantly over the top way that he was funny. From most reports, this Dante is just a douche.

And leaving aside the story nonsense, new DMC is not a bad game in any way.

No one said it was. The complaints are that it's a standard offering which doesn't live up to DMC standards, which is hard since it's at the top of the genre. DMC2 had the same problem back in it's heyday.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

I don't think there's any valid argument against the games needing to be playable with a mouse and keyboard.

Oh no, of course not. The more options the better. But this isn't the early 90s when decent pads on PCs were a rarity and I was forced to play Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo with the keyboard. :s

 

[Walpknut]

While I agree with the complains about the dificulty and simplified gameplay I chuckled the other day watching Angry Joe's review on DmC, he complains about the dificulty, yet the footage shows him sucking terribly at the game. Kind of hard to take his opinion as his own.

 

[Multidirectional]

DMC3's Dante was a douche but in such a flamboyantly over the top way that he was funny. From most reports, this Dante is just a douche.

So new Dante is just a douche why exactly? The guy is loyal to his friends and goes out of his way to free the world from demons, but oh wait, he makes few snide remarks along the way and likes to fuck strippers, man what a douchebag, fuck him. And worst of all, he doesn't want to have long white hair.

You clearly don't read much about gaming communities.

Clearly there's better stuff to read than whining of bunch of nerd creeps.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

goes out of his way to free the world from demons

Out of his way? [spoiler:90a78f4261]At first he didn't give a damn and once he decides to work with Vergil he's just following the plan his brother came up with which boils down to...doing what he was doing anyway to stay alive.[/spoiler:90a78f4261]

but oh wait, he makes few snide remarks along the way and likes to fuck strippers, man what a douchebag, fuck him. And worst of all, he doesn't want to have long white hair.

New dante isn't a douche for sure, the trailers and the demo were very badly picked.

That said he's very meh as a protagonist.

 

[Multidirectional]

That said he's very meh as a protagonist.

Just as previous ones. What I'm pointing out is how dumb a disposition is employed by people who criticize new DMC because apparently characters and writing suck as opposed to previous games. It's just plain ridiculous. The game isn't some kind of masterpiece, for sure, but the trashing it received from these dumb nerds is way overblown.

Out of his way? [spoiler:0dfecdf2d3]At first he didn't give a damn and once he decides to work with Vergil he's just following the plan his brother came up with which boils down to...doing what he was doing anyway to stay alive.[/spoiler:0dfecdf2d3]

[spoiler:0dfecdf2d3]Well ok, but he also didn't need to save the girl, which actually diverted his brother's plan, and he also didn't need to oppose him at the end, which he did so that humanity would be truly free.[/spoiler:0dfecdf2d3] He might not be the most entertaining protagonist, but he's damn sure not a douche, he's a hero, a savior of the goddamn world.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Clearly there's better stuff to read than whining of bunch of nerd creeps.

Presumably there are better things to do than whine about the "whining of a bunch of nerd creeps," yet here you are.

New dante isn't a douche for sure, the trailers and the demo were very badly picked.

That said he's very meh as a protagonist.

I'm judging from the videos I've seen and clips in reviews, none of which have done Dante's writing any favors. I'm kind of not surprised that they have cherry picked the worst parts to advertise.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

That said he's very meh as a protagonist.

Just as previous ones.

Dante at least had it's flamboyant and cheesy personality, new dante has nothing that makes him shine in some way.

[spoiler:a99e0b279e] he also didn't need to oppose him at the end, which he did so that humanity would be truly free.[/spoiler:a99e0b279e]

You are reading too much into that.

 

[Walpknut]

Or maybe you are ignoring too much?

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Or maybe you are ignoring too much?

What? Are you telling me that [spoiler:cac9d26c51]he would have gone against vergil only in the case that he decided that he cares and wants to protect humanity? That otherwise he would have gone "ok bro, whatever" or "fuck yeah, I'm with you"? You don't need a reason to go agianst something that you perceive as wrong.

If anything, given the anarchyst vibe of the game, you could say that he went against Vergil out of principle because he is against "the man".[/spoiler:cac9d26c51]

 

[Walpknut]

[spoiler:cbf940916a]The whole thing with Virgil wanting to take Mundus' place and his complete disregard for humans, even when one has been helping them through the entire ordeal is pretty aparent is what gets Dante pissed at him, If he was just sticking it to the man he wouldn't have bothered with trying to defend Kat and question VIrgil on his stance on just ruling over them, or even sparing him when he had him pinned down.
Also, He only resorted to kidnap Lilith because Kat was in mortal danger, and he didn't plan on even actually killing her, he tries to help (but fails thanks to being stuck in Limbo at the time) to help the members of the Order when the Swat Team starts raiding their HQ, and even goes out of his way to help Kat, even convincing her to peacefully surrender to avoid getting killed like the others.
So yeah, Dante actually started caring about the whole cause, and as he gets deppressed after finding out Virgil's actual goals shows that further.[/spoiler:cbf940916a]

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

[spoiler:291cad1c74]The whole thing with Virgil wanting to take Mundus' place and his complete disregard for humans, even when one has been helping them through the entire ordeal is pretty aparent is what gets Dante pissed at him, If he was just sticking it to the man he wouldn't have bothered with trying to defend Kat and question VIrgil on his stance on just ruling over them, or even sparing him when he had him pinned down.
Also, He only resorted to kidnap Lilith because Kat was in mortal danger, and he didn't plan on even actually killing her, he tries to help (but fails thanks to being stuck in Limbo at the time) to help the members of the Order when the Swat Team starts raiding their HQ, and even goes out of his way to help Kat, even convincing her to peacefully surrender to avoid getting killed like the others.
So yeah, Dante actually started caring about the whole cause, and as he gets deppressed after finding out Virgil's actual goals shows that further.[/spoiler:291cad1c74]

Yes, but I repeat the question, do you really think that he wouldn't have [spoiler:291cad1c74]opposed Vergil unless he "awakened" to justice, so to speak? You don't need to be Captain America to go against a guy that talks of ruling over the world (especially when he does such a bad job at sugar coating it) and the story had already shown that Dante had no problems clashing with Vergil if he was against his opinion.

TL;DR version. Multidirectional seems to take that as a particular stand out moment for Dante when every decent person would have done the same.[/spoiler:291cad1c74]

 

[Walpknut]

[spoiler:536c1fc0aa] If Dante hadn't "awakened to justice" then he probably would still fight Virgil, but is the act of sparing him that would've changed everything, early Dante would've killed him no problem, and then walk away. But early Dante wouldn't have bothered rescuing Kat so maybe they wouldn't be able to reach that point to begin with as they wouldn't have any plans..[/spoiler:536c1fc0aa]

 

[Multidirectional]

Multidirectional seems to take that as a particular stand out moment for Dante when every decent person would have done the same.

I thought I was giving reasons why I don't think he's a douche. Are you saying that Dante doing what every decent person would do is a proof that he is, in fact, a douche? I might've misunderstood what a word "douche" means then.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

[spoiler:2fce59602c] If Dante hadn't "awakened to justice" then he probably would still fight Virgil, but is the act of sparing him that would've changed everything, early Dante would've killed him no problem, and then walk away. But early Dante wouldn't have bothered rescuing Kat so maybe they wouldn't be able to reach that point to begin with as they wouldn't have any plans..[/spoiler:2fce59602c]

The fact that he was hell bent on killing him is kind of a plot hole actually, since according o the comic [spoiler:2fce59602c]unless I don't remember it being said in-game, using the DT makes Dante or Vergil lose their humanity (?). He wasn't killing Vergil because he was mega angry (after all he tried to reason with him mid-fight), he was just...uh...becoming a demon or something. And he spared him because...uh...Kat asked him? ("Please stop. For me.").

Another plot hole (more or less) is that in game Vergil doesn't seem to care for Kat while in the canon comic he was pretty much in love with her. I wonder if the writer of the game had anything to do with it. :S[/spoiler:2fce59602c]