Do you think it's perfectly okay to dismiss Fallout 3...

brfritos said:
Take the BoS in FO3, for example. The idea for them was very good if you ask me.
They picked this isolationist group that shaunned the outside world and turned them into a splinted group that fighted between them for what they believed, resulting in two different factions: the Capital Wasteland BoS and the Outcasts.
The Capital Wasteland BoS contradicts the Codex heavelly, by sharing thecnology, accepting new recruits and even helping them when necessary.
The Outcasts continued their mission like other chapters of the organization, on the other hand.

Unfortunately the game's implementation was very poorly, since the Outcasts "are bad" and the DC BoS "are good".
And that's ist.
No conflicts between them, no choices regarding the player's views, not even a side-quest that involve the two groups (for good or bad).
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The only purpose apart form acquiring old technology BoS had was to chase and eradicate Super Mutants as their main threat . They despise FEV creation as it says in their logs about the whole damn project .
There was no need to destroy Enclave again as it was a couple of times in FO3 , Chosen One did the job with a little of their help .
BoS was also made "heroes" and "bad guys BoS" in FO3 , they're neither . They're just a relic from the old world military . Guys with the big guns . And a lot of brain , or they wouldn't have the big guns and power armor .
In Tactics they help for a reasonable contract , more recruits or supplies . Tech they just take and don't ask questions .
That crap FO:BOS also did most of that .
So they do help and expect something in return , of course with weapon load like that they won't be talking just to everybody .
It's pure military in real world terms even .

What did Fallout 3 make for BoS ,the one in Citadel ?
Liberty Prime as the "prime" example , if only he could "transform" into a car . And keeping tab on making heroic attempts to save humanity or endorse goodness for all ?
People try to survive , someone dropped bombs and last thing they need is to hear the stupidity that the world is an awesome place with militaristic BoS around .So not only do they contradict the Codex but their intelligence and sanity in general .

I agree i like DC BoS , they're the funniest guys . When it comes to conserving people or supplies or ammo or guns , they just use respawn button . Their main squad lives through Enclave , 2000 Super Mutants and a couple of Behemots .... and they still have manpower and bullets . DC Super Mutants never guessed where was Citadel , they just chased radio station . Oh wait , DC is crawling with them but somehow they can't notice most of their troops die around some same shitty place and they don't group up to trample that special place . You can't miss 2 BoS guards even with spectacles .

On the other hand in New Vegas NCR or Legion die like bugs as much as any other faction including BoS . All fight for supplies , mostly BoS in Mojave mostly because they're cut off .
They chased Archimedes weapon , DC BoS chased radio station to put a retard "spreading the good word"....talk about sanity . And don't really care that much about Purifier technology . They don't care about anything else except their reputation . That would be awesome if it weren't so simple . You need to look out for potential enemies as NCR in New Vegas , and these guys are just oblivious of everything .

So all in all about DC BoS , they help and don't get anything in return which helps them improve . They spread goodness , make noted exactly where they are and don't care much about new techs except Transformers in general which love democracy . You give a gun to outsider while you have a laser weapon and power armor , that's ok for starters . Try reverse and you get DC BoS logic , just you need Power Armor perk but who cares when he's fried with laser .
I don't even know how will they survive next years when NCR comes and takes them along . Wait , they won't . I agree with "The Dutch Ghost" , when others come DC is toasted .

There is more to BoS than jut black and white , which Bethesda managed to present . And there's Vault wiki also .

On to topic :

Force Unleashed 2 = Fallout 3 , if comparison is between Star Wars .
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Take the BoS in FO3, for example. The idea for them was very good if you ask me.
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Your reasoning of the BOS basically seems to boil down to " They needed to change, they needed to become heroes."
The BOS could have changed without becoming heroes, like becoming that research and trading house mentioned in Fallout 1.

They were mostly chosen as heroes as they have neat toys but not because it makes sense.

If the NCR or the Followers of the Apocalypse all wore Power Armor they probably would have gone to Washington DC.
(I mean with that, Bethesda would have put them in Washington DC instead of the BOS)
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No and you interpreted all wrong. The idea to change the BoS role was very good, but the way they implemented them in the game was very bad.
If you want them heroes, vilans, good or bad is your personal taste, but they are simply "black and white" in FO3.
Most of the world in FO3 is black and white, 8 or 80 (no pun intended).

If you want another more clearly comparison, take Star Trek: The Next Generation for instance.
Picard and Kirk personalities are totally antagonical and different, but this was a bad thing?
The result became pretty good.

The problem with FO3 in the end is this, the game is blank and leave your mind empty.

But we are dismissing a portion of the story because it didn't achieve our expectations or because we didn't like it? And what about FNV, wich concatenate and glued all events in Fallout's universe in a outstanding manner? And I mean really ALL, all the games and all the events are contained or at least referenced in the story.
We dismiss it too?
 
^

Ok let's summarize:

So the main story is start Project Purity .
The water is "pured" only in DC , not globally so they don't give a s--- and how that purification machine works is beyond me . Even beyond BoS . They did care about it in the beginning . Later they just want to distribute pure water . . In DC , Capital Wasteland , where the Purifier is activated . Why ? They just like to play retards . Or want to sell pure "pure" water as a whole new brand . No , they just GIVE it for FREE .

Water is radiation free , except in DLC they say it should take some time , well no s--- !
And ENCLAVE ! They want to insert FEV into it !

Let's look at Fallout 2 :
Air + FEV gas = Enclave profit
FO3 :
Water + FEV = Enclave profit

The difference is in Fallout 2 they alone invented that gas , while in FO3 they did not .


The idea to change the BoS role was very good, but the way they implemented them in the game was very bad.
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The whole BoS in FO3 was bad and retarded more than enough . They had Bethesda's "good choice" all on them written . BoS never change , only people . And for someone to drastically change in an hostile apocalyptic world as to go around and spread good seeds not be backstabbed by anybody even themselves is totally stupid and impossible . Even Benny tried something in New Vegas .


FO3 stole everything Fallout had , add the "retard" shake and "growing" FEV and you get that abomination .
So to dismiss FO3 for story is not a question , it's a definition .
It's not if you like it or not , just take one look at it .
It's that simple .

To dismiss it completely as a game in whole ... i don't think so . Hardcore players need to see that crap and to curse it everyday , newbs need it as a stepping stone to previous games .
 
So you are asking why they onl distributed the water on the Capital Wasteland instead of globally but you ignore that they are short on supplies, they allowed tribals to join them because they were short on people and even when distributing it it isn't eough to help every town.
I don't see why you write it so angry, "THEY STOLE IT!!" the story in FO3 was bland yes but you seem to take it as a personal insult.
 
LinkPain said:
FO3 stole everything Fallout had , add the "retard" shake and "growing" FEV and you get that abomination .
So to dismiss FO3 for story is not a question , it's a definition .
It's not if you like it or not , just take one look at it .
It's that simple.
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No, it's not THAT simple and I think we shouldn't dismiss FO3 story, even if for showing what not to do with a franchise according to your point of view.
 
I just didn't get what i expected to to be delivered , product failed miserably .
Excited , indulged , high dose of adrenaline , good story to do a lot of thinking later on - that i didn't get . It's not an insult to me , it is to the game in general . I just feel scammed , big time .

Let me put it this way :
When i played Fallout 1 and finished it i got indulged in the game story (Vaults,war,FEV,military,paranoia etc.) and the game world and did something in-game to remember it by Fallout 2 . Choice matters . That something is a little of NCR , a little of BoS , a little of Super Mutants and FEV in general and a little Enclave hunting . So even when i finished Fallout 2 i had "good memories" . Game world moves on , story goes on , company profits and i profit in some way .

When i played Fallout 3 i got almost the same package only a lot altered one , a little too much altering . I also got FPS and VATS , and i didn't complain about that . Graphics should be better in 21st century right ?
But I got the stupid unmoving story sitting like a rock waiting to be poured by bird shit , the boring world , retarded NPC and factions , godforsaken DC Capital Wasteland and their shitty metro system , "growing" Super Mutants and more ... Tons , MEGAtons of bullets fired which got me bored so much i think even Rambo would quit after some time . Megatons of ammo also , i wonder where they get it when they all live in a irradiated shithole . Fallout isn't pure FPS . Take the gun , that's the right way or punch Deathclaw to death now that was the stuff , only so easy you can do it blindfolded clicking . I also had to MOD everything to make the game better only slightly . When i finished Fallout 3 i had nightmares and nothing to remember it later on as the story is sitting as if by waiting for Bethesdas incompetence to move it . Everything i did in game was pointless , or Bethesda thought they could forget the whole NCR idea or world coming together from the devastation and start anew with Vaults and some Project Purity . Even that was pointless in the end , they just didn't "deliver" .
Unless there was Frank Horrigan delivering water from now on .

Bethesda didn't budge to improve anything except game engine , they saw profit and that's it . They got credit on creating the best Fallout game ever since and the engine is from Oblivion so no need for double credit . Nah , they got credit for VATS and engine too . And they placed bumper sticker on Fallout Collection too , to say "our property" . Who the fuck gives a shit what they think is theirs , just give us a good game . If that doesn't count as a fucking insult to Fallout i don't know what will .

But for New Vegas i will always have "good memories" of my motherfucking Courier wielding motherfucking Ranger Sequoia .
Apart from the story or the game world .

My fingers hurt and this discussion is rather tiresome ... if I'm not convincing by all means play Fallout 3 and see the "unseen" .
 
You seem to be overreacting a bit LinkPain. brfritos did say that the way the way the BOS is handled in FO3 sucked; he also said that their idea of a splinter group is not so bad, and I agree with him on both points. People change over 200 years, even factions like the BOS must, or they suffer the fate of the Mojave chapter in New Vegas. And the BOS/Outcast conflict could have been interesting if properly managed, even if in this case it certainly was not.

Doesn't mean I endorse FO3 in any way, just that completely dismissing it is taking it too far from my point of view. Of course it was shitty compared to the older games and New Vegas. but some ideas have merits IMO.
 
Ilosar said:
You seem to be overreacting a bit LinkPain. brfritos did say that the way the way the BOS is handled in FO3 sucked; he also said that their idea of a splinter group is not so bad, and I agree with him on both points. People change over 200 years, even factions like the BOS must, or they suffer the fate of the Mojave chapter in New Vegas. And the BOS/Outcast conflict could have been interesting if properly managed, even if in this case it certainly was not.

Doesn't mean I endorse FO3 in any way, just that completely dismissing it is taking it too far from my point of view. Of course it was shitty compared to the older games and New Vegas. but some ideas have merits IMO.
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i didnt play the dlc, but correct me if i am wrong, the outcast BOS have the same way of thinking of the original BOS?

if so why they are there with the traidors?
 
A majority of the eastern BOS followed Elder 'goody two-shoes' Lyons, but some refused and wanted to go back to the good ol' tech-hunting, send-poor-watelanders-to-die-in-our-place-for-the-lulz'ing ways. So, in the Capital Wasteland at least, they are traitors and in the game they will fight the 'true' BOS if they encounter them, which can't happen IIRC because their patrol routes never meet.

Also, in case you fear it, no, the game has no evidence they are allied with the Enclave or somesuch. A plot twist worthy of Beth, to be sure, but looks like they resisted the temptation.
 
The Outcasts were the members of the Capital Wasteland chapter of the BOS that weren't happy with the change that chapter decided t go through, they considered Lyons a Madman and decided to continue with the original mission thery were given and they acted as the normal BOS only that for soem reason they decided to paint their armor black with red.
 
the thing i dont understand is why they follow him (Lyons).

he didnt tell them what he was going to do until they arrived to DC?

and why they didnt came back?
 
I think he changed tracks when They already discovered Liberty Prime, he probably had the loyalty of most of the young recruits, and some of hsi firends, the oter just stuckk in DC collecting tecnology, then Lyons replaced the missing troops with tribals and wastelanders.
I think the Outcasts didn't went back because as Lyons reproted his change of plans to the BOS HQ and they stopped sending them supplies the Outcasts probably have even less supplies than them.
 
LinkPain said:
^

Ok let's summarize:

So the main story is start Project Purity .
The water is "pured" only in DC , not globally so they don't give a s--- and how that purification machine works is beyond me .
Click to expand...
I'm kind of jumping into this pretty late, and with a point that may have been made before, but the whole idea of Project Purity is stupid to begin with. You can easily purify radiated water by draining it through soil and small rocks. There's no need for some fantastic machine to do it and no way someone could have the monopoly on it.
 
Crni Vuk said:
PURIFICATION OF RADIO ACTIVE WATER

Pretty interesting read. For the case it is true.
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Very interesting reading indeed. But finding river bank clay in the middle of a city must be a pain.

Maybe Mother Nature desired plastic for the natural world for some reason and now that she have it, is time to get rid of the manufacturers.

Us. :cool:

[ ]'s
 
Export said:
LinkPain said:
^

Ok let's summarize:

So the main story is start Project Purity .
The water is "pured" only in DC , not globally so they don't give a s--- and how that purification machine works is beyond me .
Click to expand...
I'm kind of jumping into this pretty late, and with a point that may have been made before, but the whole idea of Project Purity is stupid to begin with. You can easily purify radiated water by draining it through soil and small rocks. There's no need for some fantastic machine to do it and no way someone could have the monopoly on it.
Click to expand...


Hells , i would have used Liberty Prime to purify water .
Stick that purification machine to his ass and he shoots cleansing beams . Rad -5 on every beam fired . Fire it on ghouls and it works like heal magic on undead . He should be powered on democracy also .
 
The story for FO3... has its moments that occasionally shine through the stuff that give you aneurysms. Lets just say that the story is quite obviously written by people who were probably a lot more at home writing fantasy stuff. That said, I actually thought the Pitt DLC was a pretty good DLC pack with a well-made storyline.

Gameplay doesn't quite have the open-ended branching out that New Vegas does. There are more places to explore, but like Oblivion, most of these places are unfortunately pretty cookie-cutter. There's no Vault 11 in FO3 so we'll leave it at that.

My biggest complaint was that Bethesda didn't quite embrace what I thought FO3's story could have had on the previous Fallout games; the idea of the contrast between the "purity" of the intentions of the founding fathers and the twisted version of democracy corrupted by rampant neo-liberal capitalism and McCarthyist Communist witch-hunting that contributed to the outbreak of nuclear war.
 
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