Documentary films

[Crni Vuk]

Moore is awesome. I don't care if he uses the photage of alien nazis rolling a cannon down to an orphanage to get his point across as long as he's fighting the things he is and shiting on people he's shiting on. Again, Moore is awesome.

So you don't feel that cheep tactics, weaken the message somewhat?

Or that he is outright lying? Twisting facts? Taking comments completely out of context? Sure sure. But lets not get to deep in to that. Those who love moore will love him. Despite what kind of person he is. And I am not here to convince people that they should activate their own brain and not just repeating what others said.

*Edit
I was a moore fan once.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

No Maps for these Territories
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV_TRe_eUuk[/youtube]

William Gibson doing his thing on technology, humanity, sex, drugs etc.

back to topic,
"The Killing of America" is available on youtube, and i found it very intriguing.

America's Greatest Hits: '60s-'80s Edition. The '20s-30s edition would have some memorable gems too. Not as prolific as days of yore.

 

[Muff]

Moore is awesome. I don't care if he uses the photage of alien nazis rolling a cannon down to an orphanage to get his point across as long as he's fighting the things he is and shiting on people he's shiting on. Again, Moore is awesome.

So you don't feel that cheep tactics, weaken the message somewhat?

Or that he is outright lying? Twisting facts? Taking comments completely out of context? Sure sure. But lets not get to deep in to that. Those who love moore will love him. Despite what kind of person he is. And I am not here to convince people that they should activate their own brain and not just repeating what others said.

*Edit
I was a moore fan once.

Very true, and I agree that he can and often does miss represent facts to further his own agenda.
But this is going to far on the Moore subject.

MODS can we split the Michel Moore discussion from the documentary one please?

 

[El Pagano Loco]

Despite what kind of person he is.

Oh yeah, he's a really horrible human being. lol

 

[alec]

Moore is awesome. I don't care if he uses the photage of alien nazis rolling a cannon down to an orphanage to get his point across as long as he's fighting the things he is and shiting on people he's shiting on. Again, Moore is awesome.

So you don't feel that cheep tactics, weaken the message somewhat?

Western capitalist propaganda-machines (media, education and politics) use exactly the same cheap tactics as Moore does.

Just saying.

As for this thread: everything from the BBC is usually good to excellent. I have a lot of problems staying entertained/interested in the documentaries that popularize knowledge too much: documentaries by the House of Knowledge/History Channel/Discovery Channel/... Most of that stuff is so goddamn repetitive that the viewer basically gets 5 minutes of exclusive footage repeated endlessly.

 

[zegh8578]

Moore is awesome. I don't care if he uses the photage of alien nazis rolling a cannon down to an orphanage to get his point across as long as he's fighting the things he is and shiting on people he's shiting on. Again, Moore is awesome.

So you don't feel that cheep tactics, weaken the message somewhat?

Western capitalist propaganda-machines (media, education and politics) use exactly the same cheap tactics as Moore does.

Just saying.

this is true. but it doesnt make it better. moore tries to come off as the opposition, and is kindov alone over there.
"capitalist propaganda" is everywhere and use every tactic imaginable, but "the capitalist" was never shy about that.
the capitalist can be a whore, while not coming off as hypocritical, you know what i mean?

 

[Muff]

alec, I know this is the case but moore is so persistent that he is the only one telling the truth or "exposing the lie" using the same tactics as the people he supposedly believes as the worst scum of the universe, to be frank any one who is disingenuous with their message or tactics annoys me.

{edited to fix a typo}

 

[donperkan]

I was a moore fan once.

Weren't we all. But then we learned that there are better or more subtle ways to present ones views. In time, and perhaps with a little help from this thread, senor Loco will probably come to the same conclusion.


This thread is becoming a treasure trove.

I recommend DMT the spirit molecule just don't smoke anything while watching it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I have to say I enjoyed the [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiLV-Xeh8bA[/youtube] war made easy.

 

[El Pagano Loco]

this is true. but it doesnt make it better. moore tries to come off as the opposition, and is kindov alone over there.
"capitalist propaganda" is everywhere and use every tactic imaginable, but "the capitalist" was never shy about that.
the capitalist can be a whore, while not coming off as hypocritical, you know what i mean?

Lulz.

EDI:

 

[TorontoReign]

I enjoyed Religulous quite a bit. Bill Maher can be such a prick, but it makes for good entertainment. He really made some of those people look like morons. I watched some Republican-slanted Documentary not too long back about Obama. It was in theaters, but I forgot what it was called. It wasn't too great anyway.....

Real quick though...Moore is so full of shit it hurts. The few points he does make, others make better, and without being douchebags. He reminds me of Alex Jones for some reason. He likes to raise hell, because it makes him rich, but he never really does anything worthwhile. Of course he is right on a few things, so he is worth tolerating to get the information....sometimes.

Speaking of Alex Jones, That guy knows how to milk money out of people. He releases sequels almost every year it seems. Each one copies largely from the previous iterations. He really knows how to capitalize off of fear mongering.

 

[alec]

Moore is so full of shit it hurts. The few points he does make, others make better, and without being douchebags.

Personally, when I want to inform myself properly about a certain topic, I read a book or even several books. Books give a writer the time to make his point, documentaries never do this: docu's are fragmentary, contrived, popular and in a lot of cases even simply wrong. It's like pre-chewed food for the masses.

Moore uses the medium of film because people are usually to f'ing lazy to inform themselves ('A book? You want me to read a book?'). They just want tv to do it for them. Don't ever expect much deepness from a tv-docu. Even stuff like 'Food Inc.', 'World Water Wars', 'The Cove', docu's that won f'ing prizes, even these gems are incomplete, fragmentary, even often wrong. It's tv, you know? It's no big science.

That said, I see no point in calling Moore a fraud. It's the audience that sucks 'coz they're to lazy to inform themselves properly.

 

[Crni Vuk]

books can be wrong too. Just saying. This is not about which media is better or worse. Its about journalism. And here you can break the rules regardless which media is used.

*Edit. Obviously you are correct a docu is not meant for educational purpose making suddenly professionals out of the audience. That is not the intention. It is only to make people aware. Just like some article in the news papers or some magazine. I know you are on some kind of crusade against TV Alec. And I do agree that TV makes people dumb. But it is not like books do it always better. There are plenty of "serious" books about Hitler for example by historians which are simply not in any way honest or educational. And I mean that from a historical context. It does not help to portray Hitler as "coward" for example just because it is a popular belief even if there is no historical context which proves such a point - its rather anecdotal. There are good and bad historians.

A good documentary even if somewhat short gives you at least some insight in a topic. I mean seriously. Do you have the time to become an expert in every field? Solar Systems? Human psyche? Biology? Politics? It is good to have some kind of synopsis here. If you really are very interested in a topic then you obviously have the option to get deeper in to it. And here books are more or less the only way. But just to get some informations out of it a documentary can be enough.

 

[Sander]

Personally, when I want to inform myself properly about a certain topic, I read a book or even several books. Books give a writer the time to make his point, documentaries never do this: docu's are fragmentary, contrived, popular and in a lot of cases even simply wrong. It's like pre-chewed food for the masses.

Ah, so like most 'popular science' books, then.

 

[TorontoReign]

Moore is so full of shit it hurts. The few points he does make, others make better, and without being douchebags.

Personally, when I want to inform myself properly about a certain topic, I read a book or even several books. Books give a writer the time to make his point, documentaries never do this: docu's are fragmentary, contrived, popular and in a lot of cases even simply wrong. It's like pre-chewed food for the masses.

Moore uses the medium of film because people are usually to f'ing lazy to inform themselves ('A book? You want me to read a book?'). They just want tv to do it for them. Don't ever expect much deepness from a tv-docu. Even stuff like 'Food Inc.', 'World Water Wars', 'The Cove', docu's that won f'ing prizes, even these gems are incomplete, fragmentary, even often wrong. It's tv, you know? It's no big science.

That said, I see no point in calling Moore a fraud. It's the audience that sucks 'coz they're to lazy to inform themselves properly.

Well, I'm not calling him a fraud. I just said he was a douchbag, and maybe a bit hypocritical. Yeah, he spreads the message to people that are too lazy to read, so that is pretty swell. I don't care for the guy because of his personality, but he makes very valid points nevertheless.

I agree though. Reading is the best way to inform yourself about a topic. It is always good to seek the answers for yourself instead of letting other people make your mind up for you.

 

[zegh8578]

if books "pwn" docus so hard, then timely accurate scientific papers "pwn" books the same. books take a lot of time to write, often longer than making a documentary. meaning
from the time a discovery is made
the updating article publishes the first information
the documentary comes second
and the book comes last.

 

[mobucks]

oh yeah! well my ancestors drew pictures on cave walls of animals they hunted beat that ! rockyoumentary what?!

 

[Crni Vuk]

if books "pwn" docus so hard, then timely accurate scientific papers "pwn" books the same. books take a lot of time to write, often longer than making a documentary. meaning
from the time a discovery is made
the updating article publishes the first information
the documentary comes second
and the book comes last.

well both medias have their use.

I mean a documentary about animals for example gives you the chance to see the creatures in motion. A book cant give you the same feeling but it can offer more informations eventually and more details.

I have my doubts that something like this could have been achieved as well with books for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHIzXLYWsNM

Like with art there are different tools which can achieve different effects. Does not mean oil painings are better compared to watercolors.

 

[donperkan]

Personally, when I want to inform myself properly about a certain topic, I read a book or even several books. Books give a writer the time to make his point, documentaries never do this: docu's are fragmentary, contrived, popular and in a lot of cases even simply wrong. It's like pre-chewed food for the masses.

Jeah right, who would want to read a 260 pages book about horse mating.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Speking of which HOME by Yann Arthus-Bertrand National Geographic. Aerial footage with narration. I like the part where he compares Johannesburgs nice neighborhoods and slums. His comment: "apartheid is gone but money still separates"

 

[mobucks]

I'll take a good book about war over a war docu. I watch one WWII docu on TV. I watch another. I notice half the footage used in film B was also in film A. I pick up book.