Does anyone else realize how stupid Arthur Maxson being sent East Coast is?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Lidku, May 10, 2020.

  1. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    606
    Jan 11, 2008
    You dont seem to understand the most basic rule of entertainment, in particular novels and games.

    There is such thing as basic cornerstone rules of universe where you must accept that or everything falls apart. Not accepting is not even in question because why else you are reading/playing it. Saying it a poor written mess solve nothing.

    Fallout universe is retrofuturism, a future imagined by people in cold wars think of how future would be, as imagined by us thinking about how 50s people would have thought of it. Noone can write logically in the face of such twisted framework. Only write well or not.

    As such, long distance radio or power lined talks are impossible. Thus comm are by hand transported. And if you want something you send someone walking or driving there, not flying or boating. 200 years after a nuclear war and people barely rebuilt. Illogical but thats how it is
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  2. Señor Wally

    Señor Wally Mildly Dipped

    511
    Feb 27, 2021
    You can justify it in your head to some capacity, I suppose. But the reason no one questions this is because by the time you meet Maxson, you're just sort of used to things being contrived. OF COURSE Maxson is on the East Coast because Herold is too. Why? Because he is. Why is the Enclave here? Because recognizable bad guy and power armor.
    There's just no way around it. You have to just accept that things are there because Bethesda wants them to be there, even if little is done with them to justify it.
     
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  3. Zvezda

    Zvezda First time out of the vault

    38
    Jul 7, 2021
    Consistency is very important when worldbuilding. If you establish major lore in a universe, and then drop that major lore just because, people WILL stop giving a shit about your lore, because clearly there's no point learning it when it can get switched off overnight.

    Can Bethesda decide that the BoS have the resources to send huge amounts of people thousands of miles across land like it's nothing? Yes.
    Should they? Unless they have a very good reason to, no. Not only does it throw all established lore about the BoS out the window, it changes the entire setting, because we're now working in a world where a minor ideological group has mass transport on demand.

    Bethesda never actually bothers to deal with any of this. It's established that this is a universe where nothing actually matters and things just happen because it's cool. If the developers don't give a shit about their universe why should I?
    It does, actually. It's called "critique". If you don't think discussing writing actually does anything why are you here?
    Writing well includes writing plausibly, in other words making sure events are explained within the framework you've laid out. It's a writer's job to do that in a retrofuturist setting as much as any other. There's absolutely nothing about that framework which says it's impossible to write in.

    This is sub-r/Fallout level lazy apologising, just saying they couldn't POSSIBLY do it even though there's no reason they couldn't and we know they could because we've all seen the writing in the Interplay FOs and any other well written CPRG in the genre. Pathetic.
    How is this relevant to your point? That argument could only be in favour of the point that the BoS couldn't know about things on the other side of the country or send huge blimps out to run errands. I really don't know what you're on about.
    No, that's how Bethesda wrote it. You know they make this world up right? The writing can be as plausible or dumb as they want.
     
  4. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    606
    Jan 11, 2008
    Nono, you keep misunderstand.

    The idiosyncracies of each created universe is like innate characteristic. It just is. You can critique all you want until you losing interest in playing or reading it. Each idiosyncracy will stand tall and strong. like a pimple. And your hand is NOT the hand that pop it.

    On the matter of whether or not west coast does have enough men and resources to send an expedition to the other side of continent. You say no. I say yes. Why? Because without that kind of expending a huge portion of their power in such a move...

    Without doing it, the young republic ncr would not have a chance to defeat a huge, ancient and powerful monster that was the old BOS.

    Remember master army in f1? They just send a team to assault their main concentration on mariposa. Thats how powerful tgey used to be

    I know you new player just play fnv think bos is funny old rats cower in their bunker. Old players remember how powerful they used to be in f1 and f2. Only by sending their best and brightest to do paladin work on west coast, ncr would have a chance to defeat the dredge left behind, which lead to the fnv mojave bos.
     
  5. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    But there's an entire game explaining how weak they got during the 80 years that passed since Fallout 1?

    Have we played the same game? 3 guys in metal armours spying on communities isn't what I'd call powerful. They have so little men available, that they can't spare anyone to investigate Navarro. They can't even steal the vertibird plans themselves and have to hire the player.

    Meanwhile NCR mops up Navarro after oil rig is destroyed with their vastly superior numbers.


    Sorry, but I can't take that seriously. Nobody forced Bethesda to move every major faction and species to East Coast (Bos, Enclave, Supermutants, Radscorpions, Deathclaws).
    They did it themselves. I don't have to find excuses for them writing what is basically a bad fanfic.

    And the worst part is how generic everything has become. Every part of the game world is occupied by the same factions and the same creatures. Not even timeline will stop them.

    I'll gladly take a generic new faction like Responders or even a stupid one like an Institute over 15 bland variations of BoS.
     
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  6. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017
    Do you actual remember anything? Have you actually played Fallout 2? You have a character from that game in your profile pic and yet you think BoS was powerful in Fallout 2. Fallout 2 goes out of its way to show the decay of the faction on the damn title screen with the tribal wearing a BoS helmet. It shows that the BoS is far removed from their glory days, specially because the Enclave is kicking their ass hard.

    I don't mind suspending my disbelief because i do it for Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas, but the difference between these three games and the Bethesda bullshit is that the people that made the former three actually gave a shit to make the most cohesive world they could make. Bethesda doesn't give a shit, they contrive, they push to the breaking point to "justify" always recycling the same shit over and over, regardless if it contradicts what it is established in previous games.

    So to see people defending this with "because Bethesda said so", tripping over themselves to defend a game made by a company that doesn't give a shit by internal consistency is sad to me.

    And what you expect me to do? Accept Bethesda bullshit? No, i'm not going to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  7. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Quibbling, your point may still stand from a symbolic/storytelling point of view in either case, but is that actually specifically Brotherhood helmet? I always assumed it was just generic pre-War T51B
     
  8. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017





    I believe it is T-51b. But that's the one BoS uses anyway.
     
  9. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    I mean it's T51B, it's going to look similar regardless of who it belongs to.

    Your point still stands from a thematic point of view, that is part of what it communicates to the audience.
     
  10. SquidWard

    SquidWard Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    That image was supposed to the cover of Fallout 2's box but I think the higher ups said the Enclave helmet was cooler.

    But yeah the Brotherhood is much weaker by Fallout 2 from what I remember. The only member you even see mentions it.
     
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  11. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    Why are guys interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe post-apoc game w/ talking mutants and ghouls?

    It just works.
     
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  12. SquidWard

    SquidWard Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    Dammit you almost tricked me with that one. I see you Pete Hines.
     
  13. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    IMG_20211129_161855.jpg
     
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  14. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    606
    Jan 11, 2008
    You see 1+1 and you refuse result is 2.

    Bos is powerful and a high class clubhouse. Their requirement for outsiders joining is high. A vault dweller, well educated and clear lineage, need to explore a most highly radiated zone, the glow, to join . A tribal need to do even more, solo infiltrate a miltary base full of trained soldier, hi tec equipment, steal a most important tech blueprint, escape the patrol teams screening outside... to be consider IN.

    I know to all you speedrunner metagamer, 30min-from-start-join-enclave cheater all that achievements doesnt sound like much... :feh: :smugoticon:
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  15. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    And you know what's the difference between these two situations?

    They send Vault Dweller to Glow, because they want them to fuck off or die trying to get some stupid holodisk.

    They send Chosen One to Navarro, because they NEED the Vertibird plans and they have 3 operatives in the entire region.

    They don't need the Vault Dweller in Fallout 1, because they're at the height of their power. During the 80 years between 1 and 2 they declined so much that they depend on some random tribal (you can get the quest even with low INT) to retrieve the valuable plans from their major enemy.
     
  16. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    606
    Jan 11, 2008
    What you and i mean and infer doesnt matter.

    The pure facts, the true actions, are standing there for all to see.

    Explore a most highly irradiated facility deep inside a no man land country, one week trek through that no man land.

    Solo infiltrate a military base full of trained personels and hi rec equipment, steal a most important blueprint, escape many patrol teams back to SF.

    I dont care what else you say. If you dont consider both of them being highly dangerous achievement... say so straight out here so peole can see what you are
     
  17. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Mildly Dipped

    567
    May 12, 2020
    I’m beginning to think that what we’ve got here is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can’t reach.
     
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  18. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Gonk 0 Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    Talking through Google translate might be easier.
     
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  19. Alphons

    Alphons National Beholder

    Aug 9, 2017
    If that's what you infer from my post, further discussion is pointless.
     
  20. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017
    I'm starting to believe that you haven't actually played the originals because god damn, this is completely wrong. They send the Vault Dweller to The Glow to die, because when you get to The Glow you can literally see corpses of people that were sent there by BoS. They don't want to recruit any outsider because one of their tenets is how only people that were born in the ranks of BoS can actually join it.

    This also one of the reasons why BoS turning paladins of good in Fallout 3 makes no sense. They have known for literal decades how harsh and fucked the wasteland is, but when they get to the Capital Wasteland suddenly they want to help because now they noticed how fucked the whole thing is? Gimme a break.
     
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