joevonzombie
Buried alive in Golgotha
Professional reviews are an extension of advertising as others have pointed out. Game Informer is fucking owned by Gamestop for fucks sake.
Everyone, stand back... I just 'had fun' playing FO4.
- Thread starter cratchety ol joe
- Start date
Earth
Vault Senior Citizen
That footage looked so boring. The Ride of the Valkyries was good, but my god, that gameplay. Ugh...
MercenarySnake
Kept you waiting huh?
What part of the gameplay from the footage did you find boring? In my opinion the shooting in that game makes me think " How is it possible to make pew pew gameplay so fucking boring that I would prefer to exit to desktop and find an interactive story game more engaging than this?". I mean how can you screw up the main element of your game so bad that it becomes repetitive within a couple hours?
mrchaos
Super Orc
Better games usally have something better than mindless shooting. This one doesn´t.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
People like Fallout 4 for the dynamic events. Not shown in OP's video since that's a quest with the right music at the right time, but it's the main reason why people still enjoy Bethesda games.
The way Bethesda games are designed is that they are an experience simulator and the entertaining events are a random occurrence, a result of the right AI intersecting at the right locations to happen (like baiting a creature into attacking a patrol completely out of script). It's the equivalent of throwing the dice and hoping it lands on the "player will have fun" chance. It's not designing the game properly, it's designing it so that things can and will go crazy, and sometimes that crazy results in things you might not see in other games.
I like random, unexpected, dynamic things that don't go according to script, but they're supposed to be used in conjuncture with actual level and world design. Randomness found in open-world games like Minecraft and Far Cry combined with an attempt to make an in-depth RPG usually ends up with one or the other conflicting. Especially now that dialogue is real-time. New Vegas had a lot less dynamic events for me - there were a lot less times than Fallout 3 when I caused a fight that wasn't supposed to happen, simply because Obsidian prevented it so that it wouldn't mess with quest events and therefore, the writing. This is where most Bethesda fans get the "Fallout 3 had better experiences" claim from. And it's impossible to prove in that sense because random events are random, and therefore are not experienced by everyone, and even when they are, it can't be experienced the same way.
It's like in Fallout 2 if you walked into Klamath the first time and everyone's been shooting each other and at least two to three of the quest-related NPCs are already dead because hostile NPCs stumbled into town range by random. You might've not experienced it if you waited in-game and then came to Klamath, or were playing a different save. The best way to enjoy Bethesda games is to simply be the kind that reads a book you've already read and expect every next page to be different from the first time.
Last example - say a Far Cry game tells you go assassinate a military commander in a forest compound. The game goes the same everytime, you shoot or stab the commander, he turns out to be a decoy, you have to fight a helicopter with the real commander. But, say, on the first playthrough of the whole game, you try to sneak in and a tiger swoops in and messes up the entire patrol, allowing you to sneak past and stab the commander decoy. On the second playthrough or on your friend's playthrough, this doesn't happen. The plot turns out the same - you still have a helicopter fight - but the way unexpected wild cards like that tiger appeared is what people consider "dynamic" and "a unique experience". This is where people can Fallout 4 excuses from. It's not the differences in plot that people care about - it's the differences during the gameplay.
In that sense, if in Fallout 4 you try to retake the Castle, and a deathclaw that wasn't there the first time takes out the Mirelurk Queen for you, then that's what people consider "different". Because even after the fight, the result is always the same way - you start the Minutemen. You can't take the Castle for another faction, you can't do it a pacifist way by luring the Mirelurk Queen out with chemicals acquired from a doctor or something. But the fight is different, and in the eyes of general gamers, that's unique.
too long sorry
The way Bethesda games are designed is that they are an experience simulator and the entertaining events are a random occurrence, a result of the right AI intersecting at the right locations to happen (like baiting a creature into attacking a patrol completely out of script). It's the equivalent of throwing the dice and hoping it lands on the "player will have fun" chance. It's not designing the game properly, it's designing it so that things can and will go crazy, and sometimes that crazy results in things you might not see in other games.
I like random, unexpected, dynamic things that don't go according to script, but they're supposed to be used in conjuncture with actual level and world design. Randomness found in open-world games like Minecraft and Far Cry combined with an attempt to make an in-depth RPG usually ends up with one or the other conflicting. Especially now that dialogue is real-time. New Vegas had a lot less dynamic events for me - there were a lot less times than Fallout 3 when I caused a fight that wasn't supposed to happen, simply because Obsidian prevented it so that it wouldn't mess with quest events and therefore, the writing. This is where most Bethesda fans get the "Fallout 3 had better experiences" claim from. And it's impossible to prove in that sense because random events are random, and therefore are not experienced by everyone, and even when they are, it can't be experienced the same way.
It's like in Fallout 2 if you walked into Klamath the first time and everyone's been shooting each other and at least two to three of the quest-related NPCs are already dead because hostile NPCs stumbled into town range by random. You might've not experienced it if you waited in-game and then came to Klamath, or were playing a different save. The best way to enjoy Bethesda games is to simply be the kind that reads a book you've already read and expect every next page to be different from the first time.
Last example - say a Far Cry game tells you go assassinate a military commander in a forest compound. The game goes the same everytime, you shoot or stab the commander, he turns out to be a decoy, you have to fight a helicopter with the real commander. But, say, on the first playthrough of the whole game, you try to sneak in and a tiger swoops in and messes up the entire patrol, allowing you to sneak past and stab the commander decoy. On the second playthrough or on your friend's playthrough, this doesn't happen. The plot turns out the same - you still have a helicopter fight - but the way unexpected wild cards like that tiger appeared is what people consider "dynamic" and "a unique experience". This is where people can Fallout 4 excuses from. It's not the differences in plot that people care about - it's the differences during the gameplay.
In that sense, if in Fallout 4 you try to retake the Castle, and a deathclaw that wasn't there the first time takes out the Mirelurk Queen for you, then that's what people consider "different". Because even after the fight, the result is always the same way - you start the Minutemen. You can't take the Castle for another faction, you can't do it a pacifist way by luring the Mirelurk Queen out with chemicals acquired from a doctor or something. But the fight is different, and in the eyes of general gamers, that's unique.
too long sorry
Spacemunkey
Vault Senior Citizen
That's the previous design philosophy of a Bethesda game that FO4 doesn't follow. I think I came across more scripted events in this game than any other Bethesda games combined and some didn't even make sense, for example Kellogg; I had Piper with me, I didn't bother talking to him because I had fragged myself while trying to bash and died so I wasn't sitting through the dialog again. After that I sent Piper home to head to the Prydwen, later after not being able to find Piper I looked online turns out she's scripted to go to Nick's office. I get to the office where Piper is questioning Nick like she wasn't at Fort Hagen with me and my only dialogue completely ignores that I didn't even talk to Kellogg. I expected watered/dumbed down from this game, but I was completely surprised by it's lack of freedom which has been the only reason I've even played Bethesda games.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
I agree. With Fallout 4, I tried to take a pretty high number of alternate paths only to be kicked down back into the linear quest line. Examples.
1. Attempted to find the Institute early by investigating the CIT ruins. Bethesda counter - it was devoid of any intel, was a Super Mutant dungeon.
2. Random event with a guy in a white, clean jumpsuit with a coloured stripe asking for the way to Bunker Hill. Assumed he was Institute, investigated Bunker Hill. Bethesda counter - Bunker Hill's only secret area only opens after you've found the Institute, and only opens during a three-way battle.
3. Attempted to find Kellogg early, after my first playthrough (I was doing two character saves playing alongside) it appeared he was the only way to the Institute. Bethesda counter - Fort Hagen is blocked off until you unlock access by working with Valentine. Kellogg's secret room button in his house doesn't appear until you work with Valentine too, even if you manage to get into the house. And you can't take Kellogg non-lethally, at all.
Unexpected good parts was being allowed to pick a faction to build the teleporter with and being allowed to continue main quest even after killing the Railroad before reaching the Institute.
4. Tried to find more depth into the Minutemen questline. Bethesda counter - there was none.
5. Wanted to kill Brian Virgil and just take the plans without having to kill the Courser first. Bethesda counter - Virgil initially unkillable.
6. Wanted to find a Courser without needing Virgil to point me to them. Bethesda counter - none appears before that quest.
7. Attempted to find alternate access to Institute without teleporter. Bethesda counter - nope. You even learn in the Minutemen questline later on that there is a water outflow tunnel you can use to get in, which completely defeats the whole point of having a teleporter, since the pipeline leads out next to the teleporter room anyway. Didn't need to throw teleportation into the plot at all.
8. Wanted to - because it was how I felt - to surprise Father by telling him I never actually cared about my son. Expected my lack of empathy to shock Father. Bethesda counter - you can't not care about your son.
9. Attempted to create internal conflict in the Institute without the Railroad. Bethesda counter - you can't. You need the Railroad to pull off a rebellion - which ends up being pointless since you can attack conventionally with the Minutemen anyway.
10. Wanted the Railroad and the Minutemen to get involved in the retrieval of Gabriel for the Institute, maybe to work with Raiders temporarily to- you know what? Bethesda counter - you can't do any goddamn thing but listen to Father's orders on this. So that entire quest was just filler.
Bunker Hill was fine. Multiple options, factions affected the outcome, but my gripe was that whatever you did in that fight had no consequences. Father disapproves but never acts on it if you don't retake the synths.
18. Wanted to see if I could work with the Railroad and the Minutemen together since not a single one of their viewpoints conflict. Bethesda counter - you can't, because reasons.
19. Infiltrate and destroy the Prydwen without having to work with the Railroad. Bethesda counter - you can't. Working against the Brotherhood without anyone else requires that you give it loud and hard.
20. Wanted to handle the Mass Fusion quest without fighting the Brotherhood. Bethesda counter - you can't even if you are a trusted Sentinel within the Brotherhood. Even with high Charisma I couldn't talk them out of Mass Fusion or trick them or anything. This is not consequence of faction choice, this is laziness in RPG design because they did not bother to explain why or how it was impossible to find a not-shooty way to do Mass Fusion.
21. Wanted to take the Institute without blowing it up because it's pretty clear your forces take out most of the security already. By locking the teleporter from calling back synths and Coursers, you could've alternatively kept the Institute intact under the Minutemen. Bethesda counter - why logic? Just blow it up so you see that "fantastic" nuclear explosion animation for the second time. Even when you have no reason to.
22. Wanted consequences for my actions shown in either ending slides or post-ending world. Bethesda counter - nope, nope, nope. You could potentially still legitimately ask people what the Institute was after blowing it up, indicating that Bethesda wanted the game to be played in a linear sequence.
23. Expected all other factions to have vastly different quest lines. Bethesda counter - pffhahahaahahahahahhah NO now get me another component from ghoul dungeon #57 and be quick about it
All in all, the game ended up so linear that it's basically a Call of Duty game interspersed with Borderlands fetch quests between every mission. Still, if a Deathclaw appears where a Super Mutant Behemoth is on a second playthrough, that's what players consider dynamic off the bat. I'm not surprised why the game has critical acclaim.
1. Attempted to find the Institute early by investigating the CIT ruins. Bethesda counter - it was devoid of any intel, was a Super Mutant dungeon.
2. Random event with a guy in a white, clean jumpsuit with a coloured stripe asking for the way to Bunker Hill. Assumed he was Institute, investigated Bunker Hill. Bethesda counter - Bunker Hill's only secret area only opens after you've found the Institute, and only opens during a three-way battle.
3. Attempted to find Kellogg early, after my first playthrough (I was doing two character saves playing alongside) it appeared he was the only way to the Institute. Bethesda counter - Fort Hagen is blocked off until you unlock access by working with Valentine. Kellogg's secret room button in his house doesn't appear until you work with Valentine too, even if you manage to get into the house. And you can't take Kellogg non-lethally, at all.
Unexpected good parts was being allowed to pick a faction to build the teleporter with and being allowed to continue main quest even after killing the Railroad before reaching the Institute.
4. Tried to find more depth into the Minutemen questline. Bethesda counter - there was none.
5. Wanted to kill Brian Virgil and just take the plans without having to kill the Courser first. Bethesda counter - Virgil initially unkillable.
6. Wanted to find a Courser without needing Virgil to point me to them. Bethesda counter - none appears before that quest.
7. Attempted to find alternate access to Institute without teleporter. Bethesda counter - nope. You even learn in the Minutemen questline later on that there is a water outflow tunnel you can use to get in, which completely defeats the whole point of having a teleporter, since the pipeline leads out next to the teleporter room anyway. Didn't need to throw teleportation into the plot at all.
8. Wanted to - because it was how I felt - to surprise Father by telling him I never actually cared about my son. Expected my lack of empathy to shock Father. Bethesda counter - you can't not care about your son.
9. Attempted to create internal conflict in the Institute without the Railroad. Bethesda counter - you can't. You need the Railroad to pull off a rebellion - which ends up being pointless since you can attack conventionally with the Minutemen anyway.
10. Wanted the Railroad and the Minutemen to get involved in the retrieval of Gabriel for the Institute, maybe to work with Raiders temporarily to- you know what? Bethesda counter - you can't do any goddamn thing but listen to Father's orders on this. So that entire quest was just filler.
Bunker Hill was fine. Multiple options, factions affected the outcome, but my gripe was that whatever you did in that fight had no consequences. Father disapproves but never acts on it if you don't retake the synths.
18. Wanted to see if I could work with the Railroad and the Minutemen together since not a single one of their viewpoints conflict. Bethesda counter - you can't, because reasons.
19. Infiltrate and destroy the Prydwen without having to work with the Railroad. Bethesda counter - you can't. Working against the Brotherhood without anyone else requires that you give it loud and hard.
20. Wanted to handle the Mass Fusion quest without fighting the Brotherhood. Bethesda counter - you can't even if you are a trusted Sentinel within the Brotherhood. Even with high Charisma I couldn't talk them out of Mass Fusion or trick them or anything. This is not consequence of faction choice, this is laziness in RPG design because they did not bother to explain why or how it was impossible to find a not-shooty way to do Mass Fusion.
21. Wanted to take the Institute without blowing it up because it's pretty clear your forces take out most of the security already. By locking the teleporter from calling back synths and Coursers, you could've alternatively kept the Institute intact under the Minutemen. Bethesda counter - why logic? Just blow it up so you see that "fantastic" nuclear explosion animation for the second time. Even when you have no reason to.
22. Wanted consequences for my actions shown in either ending slides or post-ending world. Bethesda counter - nope, nope, nope. You could potentially still legitimately ask people what the Institute was after blowing it up, indicating that Bethesda wanted the game to be played in a linear sequence.
23. Expected all other factions to have vastly different quest lines. Bethesda counter - pffhahahaahahahahahhah NO now get me another component from ghoul dungeon #57 and be quick about it
All in all, the game ended up so linear that it's basically a Call of Duty game interspersed with Borderlands fetch quests between every mission. Still, if a Deathclaw appears where a Super Mutant Behemoth is on a second playthrough, that's what players consider dynamic off the bat. I'm not surprised why the game has critical acclaim.
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Scipio the Elder
Whiskey Blues
It reminds me of just not caring and going straight for shoot everything and act as if only I matter; which is fun. King of like getting the unique MG3 in Farcry 4 and absolutely fucking up every outpost. Good times.
Fallout 4 is fun after all.
As a shooter with elements to try and complement the shooter.
(Except settlement babysitting.)
Fallout 4 is fun after all.
As a shooter with elements to try and complement the shooter.
(Except settlement babysitting.)
Lanfear
Mildly Dipped
The story in general only got more and more stupid after you enter the Institute, but this bit just about made me flip my desk. Why does this delivery entrance even exist given all the time and resources the fucking Institute have put into isolating themselves? Because Fallout 4's writing is less coherent than Axe Cop, I guess.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
As a shooter Fallout 4 sucks.
As a RPG Fallout 4 sucks.
As a Fallout Fallout 4 sucks.
As a game Fallout 4 sucks.
As a RPG Fallout 4 sucks.
As a Fallout Fallout 4 sucks.
As a game Fallout 4 sucks.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Bethesda has this idea.
As A Shooter: 3/10
RPG Mechanics: 1/10
As A Fallout Game: 1/10
As A Game: 3/10
Total: 8/10, GOTY. Aim for a bit everything and you get a better everything! Riiiiight? (no)
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Hmm... can I edit this a bit?
As a Shooter 3/10
As an RPG 0/10
As a Fallout game 1/100
As a game 1/10
Of course, we get 10/10 reviews.
LonesomeDrifter
First time out of the vault
If I may give out my opinion - my theory of how Fallout 4 is able to stimulate fun. It's out of personal experience.
With how things went in my life, that is, ever worse. I'm feeling less and less motivation for things I loved and the mundane as well. While I loved the Witcher series from before it was a game series and followed up eagerly up to the W3 release - I can't seem to find myself playing it for more then a few minutes. I love it, I want to go through it - but I can't. Same goes for everything else. The more I need to put some time and effort into being stimulated, the less I want to pursue it. The angrier I become. But I won't delve on this.
Fallout 4, gives quick stimulation though. For a time. I can jump into a Power Armor and feel all glorified, change my appearance quickly and play dress-up doll, shoot things around without any consequences. It's quick stimulation, even if one element has been depleted, it allows you to jump to the next to prolong your time invested in it. Tired of shooting? Go build a settlement. Tired of that as well? Go mod your weapon. Don't want to anymore? Go explore. But it goes beyond that as well. You build because there's something that you don't like/haven't seen or experienced and you fill the lack of it with your own creation. You tirelessly change weapons and armor before out exploring because you want to experience something new that the game didn't offer - even though in the end it's the same over and over again. You try to fill the missing gap with your imagination - the quick stimulation and wish for something else keep you staying and hell, you've been busy living off your imagination of having fun - I know the table I made isn't good, but I lost a lot of time and effort into making it. I'll defend it to an extent and for some time that it's good. It'll pass, I'll get over it - but until then, that's a fucking good table.
Of course, we all differ - we're individuals with a reason (don't want to open a debate on that). Some will fall for the trap a game as Fallout 4 offers, some won't. But for the vast majority, with short attention spans or little time, doing something for that quick stimulation to keep them going - which also I suffer due to depression, Fallout 4 does its job good. Well, that's at least how I see it - there are other variables in this but I'll leave it as that. My opinion and not a solid statement.
With how things went in my life, that is, ever worse. I'm feeling less and less motivation for things I loved and the mundane as well. While I loved the Witcher series from before it was a game series and followed up eagerly up to the W3 release - I can't seem to find myself playing it for more then a few minutes. I love it, I want to go through it - but I can't. Same goes for everything else. The more I need to put some time and effort into being stimulated, the less I want to pursue it. The angrier I become. But I won't delve on this.
Fallout 4, gives quick stimulation though. For a time. I can jump into a Power Armor and feel all glorified, change my appearance quickly and play dress-up doll, shoot things around without any consequences. It's quick stimulation, even if one element has been depleted, it allows you to jump to the next to prolong your time invested in it. Tired of shooting? Go build a settlement. Tired of that as well? Go mod your weapon. Don't want to anymore? Go explore. But it goes beyond that as well. You build because there's something that you don't like/haven't seen or experienced and you fill the lack of it with your own creation. You tirelessly change weapons and armor before out exploring because you want to experience something new that the game didn't offer - even though in the end it's the same over and over again. You try to fill the missing gap with your imagination - the quick stimulation and wish for something else keep you staying and hell, you've been busy living off your imagination of having fun - I know the table I made isn't good, but I lost a lot of time and effort into making it. I'll defend it to an extent and for some time that it's good. It'll pass, I'll get over it - but until then, that's a fucking good table.
Of course, we all differ - we're individuals with a reason (don't want to open a debate on that). Some will fall for the trap a game as Fallout 4 offers, some won't. But for the vast majority, with short attention spans or little time, doing something for that quick stimulation to keep them going - which also I suffer due to depression, Fallout 4 does its job good. Well, that's at least how I see it - there are other variables in this but I'll leave it as that. My opinion and not a solid statement.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
I think Fallout 4's system of having plenty of plates to choose from and using instant gratification within literally everything, it's kind of the game that's opposite to other games - it starts off the best at the beginning (after the intro, specifically) and it just gets worse as it goes on, which is usually in contrast with the usual approach to game.
It's best played like a mobile game - you jump in, play for a very short time, jump out. It didn't get boring this one time I tried playing for short half-hour periods and then doing something else in between. The problem is that it doesn't feel right, playing a mobile game on a PC. Mobile games are popular because you can take it anywhere with you! Considering the poor performance of Fallout 4 requiring some significantly high specs (meaning no medium-end laptop can handle it), and that it's marketed as an AAA game, this is inefficient design!
The end result is that we have a game that's immediately fun and falling apart over time. Which is great if you're playing only for a bit every few hours, but considering it is an AAA game meant for consoles and PC that is supposed to be part of a series of post-apocalyptic roleplaying games turned first-person shooter, the mobile game design is not right for it, and it shows.
Basically, Fallout 4 is a glorified mobile game. It is designed exactly how one would design a mobile game.
Well, buffets offer a massive variety of foods to choose from, but they tend to run out of them very quickly because it's hard to refill a little of everything rather than a large helping of specific somethings. That's really the point with Fallout 4. It's not bad, it just does exactly what I said.
Personally, I feel Minecraft did this better, and the only reason Fallout 4 gets complimented for this is because Minecraft's blocky graphics turn people away from it, while Fallout 4 doesn't.
But yes, it does have fun value in it. Just not the right kind for the series, or for what its aiming for. In the end, the name it carries and the genre it strives to represent are the only reasons people throws hostilities at it.
It's best played like a mobile game - you jump in, play for a very short time, jump out. It didn't get boring this one time I tried playing for short half-hour periods and then doing something else in between. The problem is that it doesn't feel right, playing a mobile game on a PC. Mobile games are popular because you can take it anywhere with you! Considering the poor performance of Fallout 4 requiring some significantly high specs (meaning no medium-end laptop can handle it), and that it's marketed as an AAA game, this is inefficient design!
The end result is that we have a game that's immediately fun and falling apart over time. Which is great if you're playing only for a bit every few hours, but considering it is an AAA game meant for consoles and PC that is supposed to be part of a series of post-apocalyptic roleplaying games turned first-person shooter, the mobile game design is not right for it, and it shows.
Basically, Fallout 4 is a glorified mobile game. It is designed exactly how one would design a mobile game.
Well, buffets offer a massive variety of foods to choose from, but they tend to run out of them very quickly because it's hard to refill a little of everything rather than a large helping of specific somethings. That's really the point with Fallout 4. It's not bad, it just does exactly what I said.
Personally, I feel Minecraft did this better, and the only reason Fallout 4 gets complimented for this is because Minecraft's blocky graphics turn people away from it, while Fallout 4 doesn't.
But yes, it does have fun value in it. Just not the right kind for the series, or for what its aiming for. In the end, the name it carries and the genre it strives to represent are the only reasons people throws hostilities at it.
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LonesomeDrifter
First time out of the vault
Exactly. Fully agree with your statement - nicely concludes my rambling above. It is a game that focuses on quick and short stimulation and if enjoyed as such, it can offer fun. Try more of it, deeper and it will quickly run shallow with disappointments which will in term leave you feeling unsatisfied and take away the whole fun experience.
But keep in mind, Bethesda is by no way a collaborative team of artists. As much as I like their artworks and the art department, these people are craftsmen, technicians before anything else. It is pure business here. They had to do their research on what's popular out now in the market and here is the result. Fallout 4 is more the face, the mirror of the modern consumer. We can cry as much as we want about what Fallout 4 is and how it distanced itself from what the series was before - their games will change according to the market - and it seems for various reasons, it doesn't want anything deeper or 'new'. Our lifestyle is a hectic, fast paced one with an underwhelming amount of additional media and side activities to partake in, it makes sense for such a choice in game development.
Do I like it? No. But it's what I see happening.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
Come to think of it, I know people outside NMA keep bringing up the idea that since you have several hundred hours put into the game you're not allowed to criticise it, but how much of those hours are actually playing?
Steam counts the loading times. As in, ALL of the accumulated loading times, for fast travel, entering new areas, opening the game and continuing it after it crashes. I'm pretty sure that all the little yet numerous loading screens combined could take up nearly a hundred of the hours actually shown. Not to mention that if you have to travel by foot to a new location (I'm pretty sure the Glowing Sea set people back by an hour) then a crash even then means you have to do the entire walk. Again.
This is counting the lengthened forced intro sequence, the character creation menu (which I'll assume people spent time on since it was the good part), and several points in the game that are just scripted, locked scenes. Then the hacking and lockpicking minigames that kill the pacing, and then there's moments like the Vertibird ride or Railroad secret door opening which are short on their own but combine to waste quite a lot of actual time.
I have 367 recorded hours on Fallout 4, so far. All of the above combined with the fact that I have accidentally left the launcher on running when I'm doing other stuff or sleeping, probably means that I've actually played several hours less than it looks like I have. Probably got my money's worth, but not an inch more, I suppose. Intentional or not, this is a tricky little bastard of a mechanic.
Steam counts the loading times. As in, ALL of the accumulated loading times, for fast travel, entering new areas, opening the game and continuing it after it crashes. I'm pretty sure that all the little yet numerous loading screens combined could take up nearly a hundred of the hours actually shown. Not to mention that if you have to travel by foot to a new location (I'm pretty sure the Glowing Sea set people back by an hour) then a crash even then means you have to do the entire walk. Again.
This is counting the lengthened forced intro sequence, the character creation menu (which I'll assume people spent time on since it was the good part), and several points in the game that are just scripted, locked scenes. Then the hacking and lockpicking minigames that kill the pacing, and then there's moments like the Vertibird ride or Railroad secret door opening which are short on their own but combine to waste quite a lot of actual time.
I have 367 recorded hours on Fallout 4, so far. All of the above combined with the fact that I have accidentally left the launcher on running when I'm doing other stuff or sleeping, probably means that I've actually played several hours less than it looks like I have. Probably got my money's worth, but not an inch more, I suppose. Intentional or not, this is a tricky little bastard of a mechanic.
Lanfear
Mildly Dipped
Pretty sure this stupid nonsense is some sort of fallacy, but I don't know offhand which one. In any case, those who accuse people of having played a game too long for their criticism to be valid are the same people who accuse others of not having played a game long enough for their criticism to be valid. Their validation is meaningless, they aren't interested in doing anything but white knighting their beloved game.
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Steam starts counting game play time as soon as you click play, if you leave the launcher window (the small popup window that appears before we actually get the game going) on screen without press play it will count that time too, I know that because I used to crash Fallout 4 right after that popup launcher window/menu and still it said I had played for 1 minute 
cratchety ol joe
Mildly Dipped
@Lanfear I have no problem with the fact that I've 500 hours in FO4, most of which are while I was playing Sims Apocalypse.
I've had my money's worth and do not regret paying for the game.
I'm sad that it's not been a role-playing game, but I've enjoyed Borderlands: Boston for very different reasons that if I'd had a Fallout game to play.
I've had my money's worth and do not regret paying for the game.
I'm sad that it's not been a role-playing game, but I've enjoyed Borderlands: Boston for very different reasons that if I'd had a Fallout game to play.
ZigzagPX4
The Swiftness of the Ranger
I actually think making it a Fallout game has made it worse than it could've been! Bethesda could've ended up making a very good competitor to Destiny and Borderlands with their own view of wacky humour and constant action, but instead ended up making an underwhelming sequel within a series they are continuously taking downhill.
Now being bogged down by lore they probably are annoyed to have to stick to, and tone that they probably don't like, they end up not making as great of a Sims-Borderlands-Far Cry hybrid they could've made. In the end, both the old fans are displeased because it's Fallout 3 2.0 with shittier writing and gameplay that's wrong for the series, and the new fans are subsequently not-so-impressed since it's just a half-assed copy of everything else.
Think of the alternate ways this could've gone - if they had made an entirely new IP instead of Fallout 4, they would probably be in an even better position now. Since they compromised they're now just stuck between two sides who'll eventually both be disappointed by the end result. Bethesda screwed up when they decided a perfectly alright if somewhat derivative game should be a Fallout game.