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Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by TheHouseAlwaysWins, Jul 28, 2019.
Because Bethesda literally took it from Van Buren, so nice try, chunglord.
What are you talking about?
The only similarities are that the player has to secure missile silos to close fissures from which Scorch beasts emerge that spread the scorched plague and eventually these fissures open somewhere else to start the gameplay plot device all over again.
At no point is the player trying to find a cure for the scorched plague.
Van Buren's plot was not just about stopping the New Plague and Presper from using BOMB001's missiles but also finding out what made him go to these extreme measures.
The player would find out that civilization was failing or dying in the wasteland because of various reasons.
The greed of the caravan houses, the rise of the Legion, the corruption of the NCR, the NCR-BOS war and the conflict with the Legion in the past, the BOS seeking to regain power by reclaiming all advanced technology from unworthy outsiders, the powder gangers the NCR had helped to create in its Black Canyon prison.
Part of the game was actually helping the factions and settlements to prove that Presper was wrong with his extremist philosophy that civilization needed to be reset with another nuclear holocaust.
The player could resolve the problems of NCR settlement at Hoover Dam such as ending the war between the NCR and the BOS and helping the settlement become the center of a new government/republic if Shady Sands in the West had indeed fallen.
The player could help Jericho become a financial powerhouse and a source of fresh water that would help other development in the region.
The player could fix the problems at the Nursery, helping it become once again the future of restoring nature to the wastelands.
The player could end the hostility of the Ghouls who live at the Reservation against normal human outsiders and create a future in which both could live together in peace with the Reservation trading its nuclear technology and knowledge.
The player could help the prisoners at Denver to work off their remaining sentences, redeem them, and turn Denver into Fort Denver, a destination for future prospectors and colonization.
And so much more.
This was all part of resolving the problems the region and civilization was experiencing. Just stopping the New Plague and the impending missile strike was just a part of it.
Firstly I think Presper is a very underbaked villain. As was in the design documents, he was basically a shitter version of the Enclave. Now granted, we see in New Vegas that Elijah is basically a fully fleshed out/developed Presper with his "Wipe the slate clean on the Wasteland with pre-war technology" plan, though he's ex-BOS instead of ex-NCR. So given time it's possible that Van Buren Presper could have become something like Elijah as well, who actually was compelling as a villain. I will admit that the counter-party is a great idea, as evidenced by the many, many DnD campaigns across the world that use it.
I never liked the whole players and other prisoners being infected storyline, either. If handled poorly it would be a 10x worse iteration of Fallout 1's water chip/mutant invasion clock that would actively punish the player for not rushing through the game and minimizing contact with NPCs/the world. If the player is cured but the other prisoners are not, and you have to do an easter egg hunt in every town tracking down the prisoners, isn't everbody already fucked anyway? Especially considering the map distance Van Buren took place on, it'd take weeks if not months to travel around the map, and by then you'd expect everyone would have been plagued and died, no? Not to mention I think this main quest structure is lazy and boring. Go to town, pickup prisoner who doesn't want to come with you. Repeat.
Thirdly, the space-station thing was absurd. Come on. If this was a Bethesda game that had the protagonist launching a functional space rocket and going to a functional orbital space station 200 years after the Great War, there'd be about twenty threads complaining about it jumping the shark and how it doesn't fit Fallout. And they'd be right. Doesn't help that as was, Presper was just generic evil scientist.
Van Buren had really strong world building and side content, and it's a shame the game never got made but let's not pretend the half-baked mainquestline wasn't the worst part of it by a long shot.
People were complaining about that but I have always given Fallout a little leeway here and there. Occasionally "because it is cool" is allowed if it fits the context and doesn't break or twist it too far.
For the same reasons why would the missile silos in the Divide still be up and running? They weren't maintained for a very long time. (sure we saw those little eyebots that were fixing up missiles, but there were also robots on BOMB001 that were probably continuing maintenance and perform course corrections to maintain orbit)
The HERMES rocket actually had to be fixed up before it could be launched. Other than launch codes the player would also had to secure other stuff for it to make it space worthy again.
Most of the complaints were rather obsessive in my opinion (and I can be obsessive) because people did not like the idea that the Fallout universe had space travel, apparently having the idea because the transistor was never invented rockets and satellites weren't either.
I confess that that is an issue (collect the prisoners) but part of the game was also to have a cure developed. I think it is included in the bad endings that if the player doesn't have DIANA/Dome ZAX work on a cure that the New Plague would eventually destroy human society in the region.
But like with the Rocket and the space station this is matter of taste rather than that an explanation can not be provided that doesn't break the setting.
I don't deny that Presper isn't that well developed an antagonist that rather sounded like another guy with the Enclave's agenda. Perhaps that is why he was made into an NCR scientist instead who wanted just reset civilization and not so much "use the virus and missiles to wipe out all mutant scum that are threatening pure humanity from reclaiming the position as the dominant species in the US"
I do think an ending would have to be included in which the player shows Presper evidence of how he/she fixed NCR and the region's problems, making Presper realize the errors of what he has done and how he only helped to make things worse. So much for being a genius with a master plan to save human civilization.
lol nice try what? I didn't know it was derived from that.
I never said that was all van burens plot was, just that 76's sounds like the plague plotline lol I have been turned off from that game myself because the legion where handled terribly in NV, but I really don't care about the plotline of a dead game thats not getting released
You can reply to multiple people in one post. And Chunglord was a recent user that seemingly showed up to troll and then dipped out before his thread even hit page 2.
Okay I misunderstood you here and there.
Yeah Fallout 76 does do the plague storyline and I can not say I find this version very interesting. I would rather take a normal highly infectious disease threat that is lethal plot than the "spores of the hive mind" plot that could just as well come from a Resident Evil game.
I know it is silly but I still wish that Van Buren as it was intended would be made one day, if just to give a book end ending to the first two games (a fourth one that would involve that version's Legion in Texas would still be welcome of course)
I love Fallout New Vegas but it doesn't beat what Van Buren could have been, especially when the finally plotholes had been properly fixed.
I feel ya man, I love the idea of hive minds (system shock 2 made me love it) but 76 treats them like feral ghouls with guns and wasted the potential. their whole concept is so underwhelming
Nothing wrong with wishing van buren was made lol, I liked the idea of the hanged man npc being op, yet causing lots of issues for the player. I just personally don't like dwelling on less fallouts being made, it kinda bums me out