Fallout 1 VS Fallout 2

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Robb Stark, May 13, 2015.

  1. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    The fact that the originals were so grounded while the sequel takes many liberties, clearly shows intent.

    My opinions don't change the fact that the sequel is much more zany, ESPECIALLY when compared to the original.

    BTW, a vast majority here would agree one of the most craptastic things that made FPOS, the way it was, is toilet humor.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
  2. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    FPOS?

    Hmm I agree in a way. As I have said before, Fallout 1 with more weapons, items, quests, choices and game play of Fallout 2 would win. Imagine, all the strengths of Fallout 1, with Fallout 2 (which is gameplay, quests, characters and choice)... Fallout 1 Expanded...
     
  3. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Its Fallout Piece Of Shit, a derogatory term for FOBOS back in the day.
     
  4. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Oh... fair enough then.
     
  5. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    2 things:

    1) It's an INSURMOUNTABLY false presumption to believe that consensus means jack diddly fucking shit. So citing that people agree is a big mistake.

    2) No, it's not. There are MANY things utterly wrong with FOBOS, but the toilet humor is not one of them. FO2 being paraded as an incredibly forward game because you could get married and be gay in it, yet it was censored of many of its adult jokes. Nude posters that were in the game files were removed from the final product. Many Vault Boy cartoon images were removed because of their graphic (toilet-esque) nature, like the Vault Boy masturbating to a porn magazine illustrating the "Virgin of the Wastes" status (also removed from the game). FOBOS implemented many of those, and just like seeing them in killap's RP, they were pretty hilarious. Another moment of absolute toilet humor in FOBOS was a small cutscene between two mutants where one is trying to get away from his guard post so he can take a leak, and finally the second relents and allows him, then in all his wonky animation glory, he waddles off to a toilet, and goes "WOOOOOOOOOOOWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" as a HUGE stream of yellow polygons jets forth from his waist. It's not sophisticated at all. Absolutely the polar opposite of high brow. But it IS pretty funny.

    We're back to the "it's down to whether you like it or not" stage... There ARE things in FOBOS that are damn great, but that people just don't like. I LOVED the music. I also felt that in keeping with the theme of the games, the general soundtrack just did not fit. Doesn't mean the music itself was bad. Just that it didn't fit. By the standards of its day the graphics weren't bad, so citing that isn't really substantial either.

    If you want to make arguments about THE worst elements of FOBOS, there are far, far worse than its gut-reaction baby-level jokes. You can say they just don't fit, like the music didn't fit, because Fallout was so much more intelligent with its humor, but that still doesn't make it a bad thing. To this day, I am glad that someone in particular asked me for my informed opinion about why people hated FOBOS so much, to the point that I actually felt compelled to pop it back in my PS2 and refresh my memory. Because a clear mind is key for such discussions. Saying that you will abstain from it because you've disregarded it as utter filth is just consigning your scruples to ignorance, and nothing more. Even though it was AGONY, I'm glad I replayed FOBOS that one time. It really helped me remember WHY the game is so shitty. Guess what? It's not the toilet humor.
     
  6. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    Considering where this is posted, I would dis-agree that consensus means jack shit, but oh well.

    The fact that the FIRST was CLEARLY not so damned weird AKA zany, is a GLARING example of how the devs, by choice, made this game more wacktastic.

    Don't get me wrong, F2 is still awesome. I am merely pointing out personal opinion has no bearing that, summed up, F2 was super wacky.
     
  7. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    It doesn't matter where it's posted. Consensus NEVER WILL mean anything beyond people agreeing. People agreed for centuries on the world being flat, but that didn't make it so. I am loathe to recognize that people "agree" on FOBOS being a terrible game for ALL the wrong reasons. Make no mistake, it is a HORRIBLE game... but they've been too quick to label it a pestilence and never touch it or experience it for fear of... I dunno? Fear of learning from others' mistakes? So they don't even know WHY it's so bad. These are people who are simply perpetuating a story. The more they "agree", the more distorted the story becomes, the more the shape of a lie it will take. You have to KNOW what you don't like to know WHY you don't like it. Consensus isn't why we know anything.

    Personally, I'm able to compartmentalize the "zaniness" found in FO2 from its much more grounded story. So I never really minded that it was much more out there in tone, sometimes. It still have a very bleak, intriguing, intelligent story to follow with believable societies and characters. The bad guys were still CHILLINGLY bad guys! I was scared shitless when I first encountered that eyebot just outside of 101 in FO3, not because the game actually did the Enclave justice at all, but because of how SCARY the Enclave actually was presented in FO2. It was so fucking damn epic! A guy waking up in a cave having been "preserved" for hundreds of years making a reference to an old sci fi show... or a quote from T Ray about a pushy woman wanting more love "trying to kill [him]" coming from South Park... or tons more quirky references didn't take away from the rest of the game. More zany? Sure. But that's still not a bad thing.

    Funnily enough, just like how I personally compartmentalized the two aspects of the game, Obsidian also ended up deeming the wackiness ought to be segregated from the normal game, so they made all the silly bits in FONV associated with the Wild Wasteland Trait. I couldn't understand WHAT that Trait was trying to convey, based solely on its description, but knowing what it does in retrospect, I'm glad they implemented it. =)
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  8. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Ah the wild wasteland trait...
     
  9. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    I think it is much like the Bloody Mess perk. One can argue that it is unnecessary but it adds more gore for those who want a lot of it. IMO, zaniness is the same.

    PS: I never said toilet humor was the SOLE, reason that FPOS sucked. Those discussions have been done to death. I did say it was PART of it though.

    Look, you, me, anybody, we all ENJOY, many different things. We also might DISAGREE on certain ideas, its natural.

    Society and members here, in general, believe celebrating toilet humor is a bit tasteless. Its the most base of low brow humor. Unless we live in Idiocrasy, this will be truth. Is there places for it? Sure. Just like Alex Jones and Deus Ex, among others, like to talk about NWO, FEMA deathcamps, etc. But, given what was presented in the originals, is Fallout really the best place for this stuff? Do I really need Dan Quayle jokes?

    Consensus is what made this site. A community who agreed that Fallout was slowly being bastardized, and plenty of apologists would rather look the other way. While we understood change WILL happen, and even accepted this, we didn't agree the games we wanted should go extinct because johnnie come latelies made gaming cool and hip.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  10. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    440
    Jun 25, 2019
    Maybe he was playing energy weapons
     
  11. Yuri_Yslin

    Yuri_Yslin First time out of the vault

    5
    Jul 11, 2021
    Ehh, necro'ing this.

    I completed Fallout 1 again today and it gave me some perspective. I'm not a kind of guy that likes rating games through rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia.

    To me, Fallout 2 is a 10/10 game.
    And Fallout 1 is a 8/10 game.

    Explanation:

    Fallout 1 is a game that feels woefully small and kinda... "poorly interactive". The towns are really boring. There's maybe 1-2 "big" quests per town, with a bunch of smaller (unmarked) ones for a bit of XP. My problem is that those quests poorly reference each other. In Fallout2, you can (usually) interact with many NPCs in town regarding a quest. In Fallout1, except a very specific NPC or two, people are generally oblivious to your doings. And they often don't even acknowledge critical quests being completed or give wrong info. It feels like FO1 sidequests are generic RPG crap put there to make you gain XP, whereas in FO2, there's a lot of brilliantly written stuff that makes you immersed in the gameplay a lot.

    The towns mostly have boring designs, just a couple copypasted assets, even the Glow actually feels boring - it's just the same thing times 6. I always was a fan of the Glow, but seeing it again after many years, I was rather disappointed. That, and the glow virtually provides no challenge at all. Now, Sierra Army Depot? Bigger, tougher, with more sinister atmosphere, more interesting levels, and plenty of lucre at the end.

    There is very little combat in Fallout1 and it's rather easy. Half of the game you're facing either stupid melee creatures like Scorpions, or weak dudes with a shotgun or two. Fallout2 brings those grand battles with the New Reno families, Hubologists or Metzger, it just feels entirely different. It feels like there's always something to do. Also, the progression is completely off. In a game where you fight everyone, in FO1, you fight rats, bandits, raiders and mercs, at best a few at a time, then you get to fight three near-sighted deathclaws of Boneyard (I think they don't initiate combat till you're like 8-10 hexes away, so you may as well ignore them), then a single 310 HP deathclaw mother, and finally ... BAM, 10 Super Mutants with minguns and rocket launchers per room in the Military Base. Seems a rather steep jump, eh? FO2 gives you a very pleasant progression. You feel in control and can take bigger fights that prepare you for even bigger fights. In FO1, there's very little combat challenge outside Mariposa/Cathedral. In FO2, there's always the next group to fight. Not to mention that you get so little XP in FO1 that it's hard to progress past level 15 without grinding the respawning deathclaws of Boneyard. Which, on the other hand, makes the game braindead to a point of being boring, because 5-6 shots with Turbo Plasma Rifle or Alien Blaster per turn with 100% Critical Rate is too much. You may argue it's too much to shoot a Gauss Pistol 6 times per turn as well, and I'd agree, but at least the enemies have 200 HP on average and way better weapons/stats.

    Fallout1 has a rather boring encounter system that provides no challenge at all for the most part. Bar the rare unity patrol, you'll at best meet a small group of raiders or some molerats. Boo hoo. Travelling through the wastes in Fallout 2 - esp. in Iron Man type of challenge - is genuinely scary early on, and there's plenty of challenge even late in the game, seeing that coastal encounters can spawn 9 Enclave Patrolmen at the same time.

    Fallout1 is even more meaningless regarding money than FO2. As soon as in Hub, there are merchants with ever-regenerating bottle cap stacks, they restock every conversation. At the same time, there's little to buy and not much to save for. Most things are pretty much available without any hassle. Now, yes, FO2 has the APA ready for taking with a stupid detour (courtesy of no-lvl-cap on Navarro quest imposed... I wonder why), but in general, you'll have to put some work to find the good stuff. As opposed to Hub outright giving you the best Small Gun and Melee weapon for taking. Huh.

    Fallout 1 is also not written very well, and I don't mean the plot here - I mean the dialogues. They are short and dry. Fallout2 has a lot bigger dialogues with a lot more text put into it. The whole "Richard Wright poisoning" quest probably has more lines than all non-mainplot quests of Fallout1, lol.

    NPCs are a slight joke in Fallout1 - they don't progress, there's little control over them, and they have pitiful amounts of HP, meaning that they pretty much die straight away in Mariposa and Cathedral. They have a lot less floats and are just pretty bland additions, that may not be there to be honest, because they don't bring much to the table. Also, even on sfall patches, they are slow to move, stupid, and keep picking the worst possible target choices available.

    What Fallout 1 does better is consistency. The towns are simply consistently conceived, boring as they are, they work as one gameworld. Fallout 2 introduces too many out-of-place zones (like New Reno or San Fran) that feel more like an easter egg. But at the same time, they are full with cool quests, and genuinely interesting, with cool rewards, like Boxing in New Reno that gives you the extremely useful DT bonus for instance, I find it awesome. If only they toned down on the pop culture references... there's too many and it's tiresome.

    All in all, Fallout 2 is a _MUCH_ better _GAME_. A ton more to do, and with killap's RP, you get a wonderful game. I beat FO2 multiple times and never felt bored, in fact - I was sad I'm already near the end of the game when going to the Enclave. On the other hand, at Mariposa in FO1, I felt tired already, my guy was one-shotting everything and there was just soo many mutants. So many mutants. Make it stop, argh.

    Fallout 1 provides a darker and consistent atmosphere, and a somewhat better plot, but that's it.
    Don't get me wrong, it's still a fantastic game, but I really can't see why would I want to replay it when I have FO2 to replay every year or two. FO2 is just that much better. Once you know the plot by heart, it's the gameplay that speaks, and the gameplay in the sequel is just... better. period.

    I know NMA is not very active nowadays as reddit took over the role of once active message boards, but it's fine to visit every now and then. Decided I may as well write something.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
  12. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    You almost make it seem as if Fallout 2 is a sequel with a much bigger team behind it.


    /Edit: Weird how you complain about the amount of mutants in Mariposa when Fo2 is throwing the player into a tedious combat dungeon to fight hordes of either puny or bullet sponge critters in almost every location.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 5
  13. Yuri_Yslin

    Yuri_Yslin First time out of the vault

    5
    Jul 11, 2021
    It's true that Fallout 2 also has a Mariposa base with 9001 mutants inside, however, it doesn't make you fight a lair of mutants after clearing out a lair of mutants, you know what I'm saying?

    in FO1, after clearing the mutant-infested Cathedral, you're directed to the mutant-infested Military Base. Ehhh.

    Also, and this one is a personal preference I guess - I feel a lot more entertained with a big team, say 4-5 NPCs at my side. I like to watch them kick ass, and that's what they do - esp. with sfall fixing the previously unreachable Stage 6 for party members. Sulik with 46% critical rate, a H&K p90c and "Charge" setting is a sight that never gets boring to me. I'd be considerably more bored when playing just the protagonist, without any party members. In my FO1 playthrough I was mainly using Turbo Plasma Rifle and the sight of mutants melting under instakills kinda got old quickly. I even had to supplement myself with a Minigun and Alien Blaster to spice things up. Sadly, FO1 NPCs are just too squishy and stupid to use at the ultimate combat zones.

    Some people consider FO2 NPCs to not be very useful at Enclave either, but I managed to beat F.Horrigan+Turrets+Granite Squad with a party and my whole team survived. They survived Navarro as well.
     
  14. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 27, 2003
    F1 has always counted atmosphere as one of its biggest pros.

    Was the game 'smaller', yes and that was confirmed. It was the first game after all and what the game did offer, was pretty good.

    In regards to difficulty, unless you meta game, it is actually very difficult, especially the saving the initiate quest. Combat wth creatures isn't meant to be tough, how tough could mole rats and radscorps be anyways? It wouldn't make sense to have genetically modified critters running around rampant anyways, and so they were placed near locations where they would be expected.

    Think about Mad Max 2 , what inspired Fallout. It wasn't a war movie and wasn't meant to be. It was a story heavy narrative about survival with little resources at the protagonists disposal.

    Fallout 2 was bigger but also suffered with some whacky bloat as well, as would happen with anything that got bigger.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  15. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Since we're discussing Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, both are good in different ways, but one thing I absolutely love is the interconnectedness of Fallout 2's world, something that Fallout 1 has only to a lesser extent.

    Like when you enter Klamath, you repair a guy's distillery, and the guy explicitly says he needs it because the Wright Family of New Reno have a defacto monopoly on Whiskey, and it's cheaper to brew your own than let them set the price.

    You go to The Den, everyone's addicted to Jet they've acquired from New Reno. You repair Metzger's Radio, he says he's using it to spy on his main customers (Vault City, New Reno, and The Enclave)

    When you get to Vault City, you not only get preferential treatment as a Slaver because they deal with Wasteland Slavers so much, but also find out Thomas Moore is being funded covertly by Mr Bishop, who is doing espioange on behalf of the NCR.

    Developing an antidote to Jet, a drug specifically created so as to empower the Mordino Family, shifts the balance of power from them to Vault City, since Vault City is the only city with advanced enough medical technology to produce it, but Vault City will soon have to give in to the NCR, partially because of the Vault generators inability to produce enough power to keep up with the growing population (Something you can solve by getting a treaty with Gecko), and because of constant Raider attacks (Who it turns out are mercenaries paid by Mr Bishop as part of his espionage)

    It's a game that clearly thought about the material stakes of every single town, and effectively wrote an entire Wasteland Economy around that, with each town having both an edge and disadvantage from what they produce. Despite the whacky tone, stuff like that goes a huge way to making the entire world feel incredibly believable.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 4
  16. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Fallout 2 is superior in all ways.
     
  17. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Nov 26, 2007
    I don't think so myself, but it does have many needed engine fixes that should have shipped, or been released for Fallout.

    The developers did not understand the setting.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  18. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    I prefer Fallout 2 to Fallout 1, but calling it "Superior in All Ways" is bait.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  19. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Eh, I just love it. What can I say? I just didn't feel Fallout 1 the same way.
     
  20. Clown_Shoe_Prostitute

    Clown_Shoe_Prostitute First time out of the vault

    5
    Jul 14, 2021
    Fallout 2 is drastically weaker in terms of atmosphere and moment-to-moment writing. There might be higher highs but there's sure as shooting drastically lower lows with that game. Individual dialogue moments are, in many places, first-draft dreck if they're not making pretty pisspoor jokes.

    I have to wonder why the new team behind FO2 saw the "killer GM" style black comedy of FO1's death/injury messages and extrapolated that to throwing in wholesale references to comedy movies in standard gameplay (not just special encounters).
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2