Fallout 2 Restoration Project Gameplay Thread

Darek said:
Also, it's definitely possible to go to Navarro before finding V13 without cheating. You even made it possible to go straight from New Reno to Navarro (vertibird), remember? :)
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Heh, yeah, you're right. Like I said before Darek, I need all the help I can get these days. ;) I'll stop making gameplay comments now and crawl back to the coding side... :P
 
Heh, yeah I know what you mean. Like me forgetting about that serum thing. :lol:
Now if we could just summon up Morticia somehow...
 
Gameplay problem:


How do I disable the submarine? I'm alredy a full fledged engineer.


And how the hell do I find the sub? >.>
 
Oh boy, you have to convince the guard in front of the tanker to give you his boat to get to the sub..
Well..I am prepared to answer your next question... :mrgreen:
 
I had some questions, not really a problem or anything, regarding the new NPCs in the EPA Blue Level.

All the NPCs start with 80hp, but only Dex starts with 8AP, making him one short of the others... I thought that was weird since he likes knives so why not give him the last one?

Also, I've leveled Cat Jules up once, Kitsune and Dex twice, and as far as I could tell, all they gained was 10hp and probably their associated skill-ups.

What I want to know is, are they really competitive against NPCs a player already has access to? Cassidy, Sulik, and Vic all come out fairly to very powerful, Vic even ends at 8 Melee Damage and 10 AP for whatever reason. As far as I can tell, the new NPCs will end up significantly weaker. What's the point of Kitsune being an unarmed specialist with 1 Melee Damage?

I find the new NPCs really interesting, and getting one seems like a fitting reward for all the running around EPA (which is also awesome) requires you to do, so could they all be about as strong as the old NPCs in their respective fields? I also thought it would be helpful if Kitsune could pick locks for you like Katja was supposed to in FO1. I hate to complain about this kind of thing, since it's probably difficult to solve, but it gets annoying on Rough combat difficulty as they keep getting themselves laminated to the floor.
 
Jet and Cookies said:
What's the point of Kitsune being an unarmed specialist with 1 Melee Damage?
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I have to second that the concept of Kitsune is really great (haven't really played Dex or Cat that much yet), but I have to agree that she is basically useless in combat. She won't even wield a power fist. Also, as a melee character, she runs into melee and is the target of both the bad guys and my NPCs inability to not hit anyone when they shoot on auto. In order for her to be remotely useful, I have to give her an SMG or some such and tell her to stay back.

So perhaps she could get many if not all of the unarmed perks at a minimum and an improved unarmored armor class. And perhaps better and more criticals perks on top of that. I would also suggest that you ought to be able to talk to her about the before times among other things (in the same vein that you can ask Sulik about what the spirits say about a place, etc.).
 
Jet and Cookies said:
What's the point of Kitsune being an unarmed specialist with 1 Melee Damage?
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I have to second that the concept of Kitsune is really great (haven't really played Dex or Cat that much yet), but I have to agree that she is basically useless in combat. She won't even wield a power fist. Also, as a melee character, she runs into melee and is the target of both the bad guys and my NPCs inability to not hit anyone when they shoot on auto. In order for her to be remotely useful, I have to give her an SMG or some such and tell her to stay back.

So perhaps she could get many if not all of the unarmed perks at a minimum and an improved unarmored armor class. And perhaps better and more criticals perks on top of that. I would also suggest that you ought to be able to talk to her about the before times among other things (in the same vein that you can ask Sulik about what the spirits say about a place, etc.).
 
Unarmed with 1 dmg? : P


I could understand some giant mutated meatshield with those bizarre statistics but a human...
 
lucas. said:
Unarmed with 1 dmg? : P


I could understand some giant mutated meatshield with those bizarre statistics but a human...
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Lol. But Kitsune isn't running about like a player making every shot to the eyes, so having 1 base Melee Damage is somewhat less impressive on her. She does wield a Power Fist, that's what I currently have her doing, and that does make her slightly more effective, but she's still more likely to paint the wall with her own blood than someone else's at 9AP and 100 health.

FO2 melee NPCs pre-EPA are almost all characterized by high health, high AP, decent-to-high DMG Resist and few gun-toting options.

I like Kitsune and Dex, the "melee" EPA characters (though they can all use just about any weapon) alot more than Sulik, but Sulik could take them both down with a toothpick. I haven't tried Cat Jules for more than a couple of fights.

So, yeah. To reiterate, I like these NPCs, but they need to be differentiated from one another, as I have each one usually doing the same thing, just sitting in the back with a .223 pistol or equivalent taking one shot a turn and 4AP left (3 in Dex's case).
They should be changed, and this is coming from someone who has spent an entire playthrough lugging Myron around on Rough from lvl1-maxlvl just to see if he could do it without pulling his hair out.
 
Yeah, I'd like to see some of the new npcs get a boost, especially Dex, as I think he's the least powerful due to his more limited weapon selection ('I'm not at all biased... :) ).

Since they're hidden NPCs that people are likely to find later in the game, it seems justifiable to make them more on par with the best of the original NPCs, like Cassidy.
 
You wrote Dex, right? Dude, the stuff he says when you ask him about before the war is priceless! And yeah, some people might never see the EPA anyway, since you can only ever find it from Myron or a special encounter, and even out of those people, not everyone will raise science and repair enough to get there.
 
Kitsune can use the powerfist - you just need to set her weapon preference to unarmed. I'm amazed how often this comes up for NPCs.

Anyway, people don't be shy to criticize the new NPCs. If we're to find a good balance it's important with your input. I know killap is interested in hearing it. I have already suggested that they level up every three levels as you get them rather late. I also suggested that they start off with one less AP and end with one more to be more on par with the better vanilla NPCs.
What else would you like to see changed?
 
Jet and Cookies said:
You wrote Dex, right? Dude, the stuff he says when you ask him about before the war is priceless!
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Yes I did, and thanks a lot. Actually, I had second thoughts about including those lines in the game, as I know a lot of people think Fallout 2 already has enough pop culture references (not to mention some of those references seem too nerdy for a dude like Dex to make), but whatever.

Anyway, as for the new NPCs, in my experience, Cat is far more useful in combat than Kitsune or Dex. I'd like to see them balanced out a bit more, so the choice of which NPC you want would have more to do with flavor than their technical abilities.

*EDIT - I'm not sure why it's putting a TM by actually. Must be an inside joke I'm not getting?
 
Yeah, certain words like the one you just used and some common Internet shorthand for words like "because" trigger some preset stuff. I don't look too deeply into it.

Anyway, people don't be shy to criticize the new NPCs. If we're to find a good balance it's important with your input. I know killap is interested in hearing it. I have already suggested that they level up every three levels as you get them rather late. I also suggested that they start off with one less AP and end with one more to be more on par with the better vanilla NPCs.
What else would you like to see changed?
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Well, it would be helpful to know more about them stat-wise. I have Dex on a character that beat the game already, and it's incredibly annoying running around shooting down Enclave members without him or Myron dying so I can level enough times too see the new stats. I was trying to figure out if he ever gets up to 9 action points.

9AP would be fine for Dex's maximum, I think. Knife user getting 3 attacks in a turn. But he needs something more so he can use them effectively against the later enemies. Slayer on his last level, maybe? I don't know if NPCs get perks.[/quote]
 
New EPA NPCs level chart:

Code: 
KITSUNE:

LEVEL: BASE                                    LEVEL: 1                                       LEVEL: 2

STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:
ST= 6       Small Guns:     107                ST= 6       Small Guns:     117                ST= 6       Small Guns:     127
PE= 8       Big Guns:       21                 PE= 8       Big Guns:       36                 PE= 8       Big Guns:       46
EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 21                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 36                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 46
CH= 6       Unarmed:        128                CH= 6       Unarmed:        138                CH= 6       Unarmed:        148
IN= 6       Melee Weapons:  118                IN= 6       Melee Weapons:  138                IN= 6       Melee Weapons:  138
AG= 8       Throwing:       102                AG= 8       Throwing:       112                AG= 8       Throwing:       122
LU= 5       Lockpick:       106                LU= 5       Lockpick:       116                LU= 5       Lockpick:       126

HP= 80      AP= 9                              HP= 90      AP= 9                              HP= 100     AP= 9

LEVEL: 3                                       LEVEL: 4                                       LEVEL: 5

STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:
ST= 6       Small Guns:     137                ST= 6       Small Guns:     147                ST= 6       Small Guns:     152
PE= 8       Big Guns:       56                 PE= 8       Big Guns:       66                 PE= 8       Big Guns:       76
EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 56                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 66                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 76
CH= 6       Unarmed:        158                CH= 6       Unarmed:        168                CH= 6       Unarmed:        173
IN= 6       Melee Weapons:  148                IN= 6       Melee Weapons:  158                IN= 6       Melee Weapons:  163
AG= 8       Throwing:       132                AG= 8       Throwing:       132                AG= 8       Throwing:       147
LU= 5       Lockpick:       126                LU= 5       Lockpick:       141                LU= 5       Lockpick:       146
                                                           Traps:          106                            Traps:          106

HP= 110     AP= 9                              HP= 120     AP= 9                              HP= 130     AP= 9

Code: 
DEX:

LEVEL: BASE                                    LEVEL: 1                                       LEVEL: 2

STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:
ST= 6       Small Guns: 89                     ST= 6       Small Guns: 99                     ST= 6       Small Guns: 109    
PE= 5       Big Guns: 12                       PE= 5       Big Guns: 22                       PE= 5       Big Guns: 32      
EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 42                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 52                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 62
CH= 9       Unarmed: 114                       CH= 9       Unarmed: 124                       CH= 9       Unarmed: 134       
IN= 6       Melee Weapons: 144                 IN= 6       Melee Weapons: 154                 IN= 6       Melee Weapons: 164 
AG= 6       Throwing: 54                       AG= 6       Throwing: 64                       AG= 6       Throwing: 74      
LU= 5                                          LU= 5                                          LU= 5             

HP= 80      AP= 8                              HP= 90      AP= 8                              HP= 100     AP= 8

LEVEL: 3                                       LEVEL: 4                                       LEVEL: 5

STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:
ST= 6       Small Guns: 119                    ST= 6       Small Guns: 129                    ST= 6       Small Guns: 139    
PE= 5       Big Guns: 42                       PE= 5       Big Guns: 52                       PE= 5       Big Guns: 62      
EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 72                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 92                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 112
CH= 9       Unarmed: 144                       CH= 9       Unarmed: 154                       CH= 9       Unarmed: 164       
IN= 6       Melee Weapons: 174                 IN= 6       Melee Weapons: 184                 IN= 6       Melee Weapons: 194 
AG= 6       Throwing: 84                       AG= 6       Throwing: 94                       AG= 6       Throwing: 104      
LU= 5                                          LU= 5                                          LU= 5      

HP= 110     AP= 8                              HP= 120     AP= 8                              HP= 130     AP= 8

Code: 
CAT JULES:

LEVEL: BASE                                    LEVEL: 1                                       LEVEL: 2

STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:
ST= 6       Small Guns: 111                    ST= 6       Small Guns: 121                    ST=         Small Guns: 131    
PE= 8       Big Guns: 88                       PE= 8       Big Guns: 98                       PE=         Big Guns: 108      
EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 98                 EN= 6       Energy Weapons: 108                EN=         Energy Weapons: 118
CH= 8       Unarmed: 110                       CH= 8       Unarmed: 115                       CH=         Unarmed: 125       
IN= 4       Melee Weapons: 100                 IN= 4       Melee Weapons: 105                 IN=         Melee Weapons: 125 
AG= 9       Throwing: 51                       AG= 9       Throwing: 54                       AG=         Throwing: 56      
LU= 5                                          LU= 5                                          LU= 

HP= 80      AP= 9                              HP= 90      AP= 9                              HP= 100     AP= 9

LEVEL: 3                                       LEVEL: 4                                       LEVEL: 5

STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:                             STATS:      SKILL:
ST=         Small Guns: 141                    ST=         Small Guns: 151                    ST=         Small Guns: 166    
PE=         Big Guns: 118                      PE=         Big Guns: 128                      PE=         Big Guns: 143      
EN=         Energy Weapons: 128                EN=         Energy Weapons: 138                EN=         Energy Weapons: 153
CH=         Unarmed: 135                       CH=         Unarmed: 145                       CH=         Unarmed: 140       
IN=         Melee Weapons: 125                 IN=         Melee Weapons: 135                 IN=         Melee Weapons: 130 
AG=         Throwing: 61                       AG=         Throwing: 66                       AG=         Throwing: 76      
LU=                                            LU=                                            LU=        

HP= 110     AP= 9                              HP= 120     AP= 9                              HP= 130     AP= 9


NOTE: From level 3 - 5 all STATS are set to 5 (bug), so the skills have been modified to what they would be if the stats had been the same as level 1 and 2.

Critical chance is a constant 5 % whereas the vanilla NPCs gets it raised significantly, up to 20 - 36 %.
Also here the STATS do not change, the original ones do.
I haven't tried if Kitsune can help out with lockpicking and disarm traps, but I suspect not. Would be nice if she could.
 
Darek said:
Critical chance is a constant 5 % whereas the vanilla NPCs gets it raised significantly, up to 20 - 36 %.
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That's something I should modify for them.

Darek said:
I haven't tried if Kitsune can help out with lockpicking and disarm traps, but I suspect not. Would be nice if she could
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I never really looked into how the game handles party members (like Vic) aiding in a successful use of a skill. There is nothing explicit in the scripts, so I'm assume the engine handles most of this? Does anyone know?

@everyone
I'm willing to take input on how to balance the new npcs. If everyone could work together to come to some consensus, I would be most appreciative. Come up with a list of explicit changes that everyone agrees upon and I'll consider implementing them all.
 
killap said:
Darek said:
I haven't tried if Kitsune can help out with lockpicking and disarm traps, but I suspect not. Would be nice if she could
Click to expand...
I never really looked into how the game handles party members (like Vic) aiding in a successful use of a skill. There is nothing explicit in the scripts, so I'm assume the engine handles most of this? Does anyone know?
Click to expand...
Yep, I know... now. :)
The engine handles it automatically for the NPCs.
The only thing you need to do is make it their main skill (highest).
So they can only potentially help you with one skill each.
I also found that Vic is bugged, on his last two levels he has small guns as main skill and will no longer repair anything for you.
I kinda doubt this was really intended so I would consider raising his repair skill. Myron and Lenny keeps being helpful throughout.

The critters pathfinding ability really aren't the greatest. :roll:
I made Kitsune clear out some mines in the Raider base.
boom boom boom :lol:
 
Seeing the NPCs code up there, I think there is definite room for improvement, but at the same time less than I expected. The major thing I feel is that they all need to be differentiated, like I said above, so they feel like different NPCs every time. They all end up proficient with just about anything you could want from them, same max health, and same amount of AP (except Dex who has 8)

The critical chance of %5 percent of all of them is a great place to start.

Dex: Serial Killer, using close-and-personal weapons like knives on all those soft, fleshy parts of people--> Highest, maybe 30-35%

Kitsune: Martial Arts Master--> Medium. A little less than Dex since, I dunno, Dex is a weirdo that likes critical hits and sane people aren't like that even if they are unarmed specialists.

Cat Jules: Energy Weapons vaporize whatever they hit--> Low. 10-15%

There might be some disagreements on this, it's just a suggestion off the top of my head.

And in a slightly related topic, how does NPC AI deal with aimed shots? Dex will fairly rarely aim for the groin or legs when I have him, and it seems 8AP would be just fine if he used 2 aimed shots a turn consistently? But I don't know if it's beyond the scope of modding to change that.
 
Alright, I'm incorporating some feedback from this thread.

Kitsune is now the lockpick expert of the party members. She should help you lockpick a door if you have a lower lockpicking skill than her.

Critical chance changes:

Kistune: 5%,8%,11%,14%,17%,20% (increase of 3% every levelup)
Dex: 5%,10%,15%,20%,25%,30% (increase of 5% every levelup)
Cat Jules: 5%,6%,7%,8%,9%,10% (increase of 1% every levelup)
 
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