Fallout 2 Restoration Project (v1.1) Suggestions

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Morticia, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. Minigun Jim

    Minigun Jim It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    May 12, 2008
    If you're playing a Small Guns char,just give Vic and Cassidy the Pulse pistols, and Marcus the Pulse Rifle.
    Plus the point is you need *no* skills to get those guns. Anyone can find the manhole behind the Doctor's warehouse. You only need skills for the main area, which has less powerful weapons in it. :?

    Although as you suggest, the traveller's probably the weak link here. If you made her appear only in the SF and Vault 13 areas then EPA would be balanced. That or have the EPA location given by an EPA leaflet found in the Military Base or something.

    However, the EPA has seeds for Arroyo. Since when you get to V13, Arroyo becomes a smokin' crater it seems to make more sense to have it available around New Reno in the plot and include weaker guns.
     
  2. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    I agree with Minigun Jim. You could introduce, say, a Laser Rifle in the EPA, maybe with something having to be done before getting one of those puppies. I myself, found the Gatling Laser (I think it's okay to be there, the ammo's rare and expensive until you get to San Francisco, and you're going to be bursting a lot with it. Otherwise, you would only find a Gatling Laser in Navarro or San Francisco, where it's not even useful anymore) and just did not use it due to strength problems and wanting to spare Micro Fusion-Cells. I found the Pulse Rifle, but I ignored it as if it never was there. The Pulse Pistol is okay, ammo a plenty, but the battery capacity sucks, I think. The Gauss Pistol, I think not, although ammo is limited at that point. The Laser Rifle would be a perfect weapon to introduce at EPA, especially if playing Magnus' Weapons Mod, otherwise, you only get one from the cold, dead hands of Claim Jumpers in the Vault City-Redding caravan, from Super Mutants from the Remants of the Master's Army Random Encounter, from Super Mutants in the Military Base or from a shop in San Francisco.
     
  3. Morticia

    Morticia Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    372
    Mar 9, 2008
    @Minigun Jim,
    Re: the manhole to EPA blue level, I thought you could only get in that way after you had opened it by going through the vent (with a rope) and getting the password. If you can go in through the manhole and bypass the rest of the base, then I was wrong and you really don't need any skills to pick up those weapons.

    @Slaughter Manslaught,
    You should try out that YK42B Pulse rifle. 54-78 damage! (without Magnus' mod) and it holds 10 shots. With a critical, it will fry a Centaur or Wanamingo in one shot. The Pulse pistol is still nice at 32-46 though. 8-)
     
  4. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    The manhole at the doctor's area doesn't bring you to the Blue level, it just brings you to another area where you can gain access to the main base via a lift. The locker with the 2 pulse guns is also only accessible by gaining a passcode. This code is obtained from one of the tables in the room and it requires perception 8 or higher to find it.
     
  5. Minigun Jim

    Minigun Jim It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    May 12, 2008
    Knew about the passcode, didn't know about the statcheck though.
    Oh, had another thought on how to balance it then. Stick the gausspistol in with the pulse guns, then move the passcode to another location (locker in the Military Base perhaps?)along with a stack of those EPA leaflets as a hint. Although this would only be obvious if the EPA lockers say "this locker needs a passcode". I wouldn't know, as I got the code before i tried the lockers.

    @Slaughter Manslaught
    Compare the Pulse Pistol to the other energy pistols around there.
    Laser Pistol: 11-22 Laser (aka Suck Ray) 5AP rng 25
    *snigger* Unless you've got Magnus's mod the most reliable way to hurt someone would be to throw it at them. :P
    Plasma Pistol: 15-35 plasma. 5AP, rng 25
    Pulse Pistol: 32-46 electric rng 15
    the second-best energy pistol in the game, only beat by the Alien Blaster. 4AP to fire, so most chars will get 2 shots a turn. You only get 5 shots per clip, but think of it as the energy version of the .44 magnum. Get close, shoot for the eyes.
    Similar progression goes for the rifles.


    Basically, putting Pulse guns there makes all the other energy weapons obsolete before you even get them. On the other hand, putting in a Laser Rifle and some Small or Big Guns you never use otherwise would make the EPA a good bit of progression.

    For example, a few good guns turn up late-game when you tend to have better stuff.
    e.g.:
    FN FAL HPFA (outclassed by Gaussrifle/Sniper Rifle/P90 by then), Gatling Laser (ouclassed by Plasma Rifle), LSW (by then you've likely got a Bozar), M3A1 "Grease Gun" SMG (Unless you wipe out the mobsters or a load of Raiders, ammo is in short supply for a Burst gun, so the 10mm is better.)
     
  6. Morticia

    Morticia Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    372
    Mar 9, 2008
    @killap,
    Thanks for clarifying this 'backdoor' approach. I believed what someone else wrote about that passage being open only after doing the other EPA quests. It seemed logical that it would be locked from the inside or something, and not an alternative entrance at first, so I never tried it.

    So you can really just walk past few spore plants and pick up those weapons with only high perception and no other obstacles at all? I have to get back there and try this! :)

    @Minigun Jim,
    Now those are some great ideas. (though closing that backdoor would help as well!) I also always found the passcode paper first and didn't even know it was locked until someone else told me about it.
    Good point and very well said. 8-)
     
  7. Darek

    Darek is currently unavailable

    Jan 7, 2008
    @ killap, finding the passcode only requires a perception of 7 or higher, not 8, so pretty much everyone and their cat will find it.

    About the blue area, it doesn't exist but SoldierOfTruth chose to call the "manhole area" that for lack of a better description in the walkthrough.

    @ Morticia, The back-door passage between the area under the manhole and the EPA is locked, so it's not really an alternative entrance into EPA at first, but you can go down the manhole and get the guns right away.

    Also, for those who wants to put a laser rifle in EPA, there is already one in there. It's just in front of the doctor's warehouse.

    I think you do get too powerful weapons here but you can always do like me, store them in the car trunk for later use.

    cheers
     
  8. Morticia

    Morticia Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    372
    Mar 9, 2008
    @ Darek,
    I realise you still cannot get into the main base without the password. What I meant was that those Pulse weapons are the big prize of EPA for me, and if that backdoor doesn't require a password, I can get in there and get them without wasting skill points on science and repair before I would normally want or need to. :)
     
  9. Minigun Jim

    Minigun Jim It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    May 12, 2008
    @darek.
    Yeah, I realise that, I actually just dumped mine at the EPA because it felt too lame to go using end-game equipment on the poor mobster thugs :P. The point isn't that I want a Laser Rifle in particular (although with Magnus's Weapons Mod it's a nice gun), the point is that the EPA would fit into the game a lot better if it didn't feel like you were skipping half the weapons. Everything in it fits right except for those 4 uberguns.

    For example, the Slaver Camp is balanced as although you can pick up some nice gear there, you have to fight the current owners for it and it's not overwhelmingly good.

    On the other hand the EPA is guarded only by some of the weakest enemies in the game (Spore Plants? Heck, Myron and Lenny could weed those out using Zip Guns!) but provides the biggest, baddest guns for 2 weapon skills by simply opening a locker.

    @Killap
    Sorry if this feels picky. I'm incredibly impressed with your work on the RP, and the quality of the rest of it just makes this stand out as an odd imbalance in the game. The puzzles are right for that level, the rewards are good ( I like the crafting and the earlier chance at a stat gain) and the armor is well implemented, but the guns have overkill written all over them.
     
  10. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    You are probably right, I haven't read the script in a while.

    The blue level does indeed exist.

    @All
    I shall reconsider the weapon placement in the EPA for 1.2. I do agree it is unbalanced.

    As for weak enemies guarding the EPA...the place is meant for high science/repair characters, so though combat characters can blow their way in, the puzzles should stump them.
     
  11. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    That's the main problem with the EPA. Say, look at Sierra Army Deppot. There's a PLASMA RIFLE there. But it's okay because that you have to kill Super Dual Minigun-Cannon Turrets whose atacks are massive bursts of 5mm death just to ENTER the Deppot. And then you find forcefields. And if you fail in using repair to take those forcefields out, Brain Bots armed with Combat Shotguns, Eye-Bots with stunrods and Super Security Warbots with Miniguns and Burst-Firing Rocket Launchers grind you into pasta. Tasty pasta, by the way, like, those itallian ones.

    Really? Wait... Goddman, I just found a LASER RIFLE in the EPA... hidden behind... A BARREL?! What the Heck?!

    Well, this is just one more reason to put a Laser Rifle in the EPA: Put a Laser Rifle in the place of those Pulse Rifles. Laser Rifle lying in the ground = Weird.

    I think the Laser Rifle is strong enough to be a killer gun around there, but not strong enough to be overkill like a Pulse Rifle. Especially in Magnus' weapon mod, where the Laser Rifle is actually a decent weapon.

    EDIT:

    Maybe you could make the Doctor's bodyguards tougher? I desactived the forcefields and watched as a Centaur killed the Doctor, just for the lulz :lol: And then the Doctor's Bodyguards atacked me. They are a joke. I killed then with my Laser Rifle with ease.
     
  12. Morticia

    Morticia Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    372
    Mar 9, 2008
    I was starting to agree with you guys that the placement/timing of EPA in the game was a little out of balance, BEFORE learning the backdoor was wide open. Not sure what to say now, after that revelation.

    I felt the way it is, is actually fair the way I play. I dump my points into talking and stealing first, then hitting harder and faster next. Repair and science don't do me any good getting from The Den to VC, and beyond. (With all those Raiders, Robbers, and Highwaymen about, and well able to waste me as soon as I step into the wastes.)

    As a suggestions thread, I suggest that door be closed until going through the base and getting the password. Then we can go back to suggesting ways to better balance the placement of finding it, and what is there to be found in the first place.

    I like cheating the original game, (not with unlimited items, ammo, xp bugs either,) but just the thoughtful possibilities. IE: .Stealing weapons, ammo, stimpacks, chems from enemies before you fight them, locking doors so you only need to fight a few at the same time.

    Fighting the Lara/Tyler gang battle was always a time I couldn't cheat the game at all and wondered if I would survive. Often I did not. Wasting the Raiders was another. Vault 15 Raiders, Military Base, Getting out of the casino after killing Bishop were always the most tense parts of the game.

    Never thought the awareness perk was as valuable as others at the time, so it always made things more exciting! "Shit, if he hits me like that again I'm dead! Do I use a stimpack or hope I will get a good hit on him with my last 4 action points?" That's what I love about Fallout, and that's what I want to have more of in this Restoration.

    No locking of doors at Metzger's building so you only need to fight 4-6 at a time.

    No stealing Bozars from Buster's guards, or taking all the weapons from Vortis and his slaver buddies before battle.

    No stealing Gauss rifles from the tanker crew in SF.

    I have dissed killap a few times, though quite unintentionally; saying he was a programmer and not a 'real' modder, and putting words in his mouth he never said. I'm not the one to question anyone's mod or what they do or make of it.

    They do it for us - the players. They are doing it free also. You don't have to pay another $20 or $59.99 for this add-on. I advise any artist - If you ain't gettin paid, Do it because YOU like it. If any of the rest of us like what you make, then that's an added benefit. You can't predict this, or ever know what stupid things we might make suggestions about.
     
  13. smilodom

    smilodom Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    344
    Apr 17, 2008
    @ Morticia very good statement, thanks ... :clap:
    Just one thing Killap, what about the robot´s in the SAD, will they be repared in the repair unit or how do you like to handle this?
     
  14. Elitech

    Elitech Still Mildly Glowing

    282
    Apr 22, 2008
    So where do you draw the line between what is allowed and what's not? Shouldn't cheating be cheating no matter what you do , how you do it and in what amount? And when you draw the line, someone else will draw it differently.

    I want to know - what, and when, is cheating? You say you like the "thoughtful" possibilities - nobody's forcing you to do anything, nobody's forcing you to take the weapon in the EPA. But that is a possibility. And wherever is a possibility, someone is gonna go for it... And seize it.

    These were morticias words: "It's a game and it's supposed to be fun. The many different ways you can play it make it more fun. Mods should not limit player behavior and say "you cannot be a thief" or "you cannot be a cheater". The best suggestions are those that allow more possibilities, (like a way to survive the Kaga encounters as an intellectual type character,) in my opinion.

    I think when modders create a world for us to play in, that is what it should be, not telling us how we are supposed to play, or forcing it."


    I agree that weapon MAY be overpowered. Heck, probably is. But, do tell me, do you in RL always get things that MUST NOT BE overpowered?

    So leave the weapon - those who want may pick it up (to sell or use), those who don't want - just let it be. At least, that's the reasoning I'd use.

    P.S. This: No stealing Bozars from Buster's guards, or taking all the weapons from Vortis and his slaver buddies before battle.

    Why not put their weapons into their weapon slot or whatever it's called?
     
  15. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    477
    Mar 6, 2005
    I'm in favor of the overpowered weapons just being removed from the EPA. If I'm playing I don't want to have to "pretend" that my character doesn't notice those weapons just to keep the game more balanced.
     
  16. Morticia

    Morticia Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    372
    Mar 9, 2008
    Jeezus man! I aint Tina Turner! I do what I want to do and play what is given me. I will always say "play it however you want" and if it don't work for you then fuck off!

    Quote me all you like, but I ain't a creator. I make suggestions, but the Makers ain't obliged to pay any attention to me at all.

    I would like to see all the semi-cheats/exploits removed so Restoration Project would be a really challenging game like I personally think it was meant to be - for those of us who have played 100 times already.

    No matter how much people work on mods, the game will never be entirely realistic. Like I said, it's supposed to be fun.

    "Thanks for playing, but you died. Fallout2 has now been deleted from your hard drive. Have a nice day"
     
  17. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Since there is no competition going on cheating is okay. If you don't want to then try to get some self-control and don't :P

    Cheating within character is quite different from cheating with an hex-editor or abusing XP-bugs or the challenge-setting. For example, I woudn't mind when changing the challenge-rating would only be allowed in the main menu, it's too convenient to switch to easy when required and switch to hard to squeeze those extra-points out of skill-books. (Though that's more a job for Timeslip than Killap.

    In-character cheating is okay, though. It's fun to rip-off the druggies at a rave-party in Den-countryside, they're too stoned to realize that I walk away with their drugs AND my money. Same for bartering, buy the heavy stuff and steal the money back, okay. It gets hillarious when you sell them the stuff you just stole from them, but hey... :mrgreen:

    Locking enemy's reinforcement out or stealing their weapons before starting a fight is roleplaying actually, it would be a challenge to find such situations, and as with sex, give your char "cheater" karma-perks when he abuses them often.


    Exactly. In my current game my character knows only stuff she could know. She's a damned tribal, so her tag-skills are melee, throwing and speech (well, an eloquent tribal... ;))

    small weapons, science and repair are only learned from books, There are no doctor-books so she invests skill-points in witch-doctor... Salvatore laser-instructions may allow her to tag energy weapons later on, we'll see.

    So far it's fun, having almost always played an eye-shooting small-arms expert, it's fun to play a one-handed eye-stabber.
     
  18. Elitech

    Elitech Still Mildly Glowing

    282
    Apr 22, 2008
    What nice language... Tell me, you got any kids? Or education for that matter? Very VERY eloquent, ain't ya?

    Then let me rephrase my former post for you, hopefully evading your dirty language this time:

    So where do you draw the line between what is fun and what's not? And when you draw the line, someone else will draw it differently.

    I want to know - what, and when, is fun? etc...

    Right. Possibilities are here for every player, and every player should chose how he/she plays.

    P.S. JOG, is how high INT does your tribal have? Are you playing a dumb game? Next time, use Magnus Weapons and play a throwing char ;-)
     
  19. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Quick, smart but uneducated, dumb wouldn't really fit into the concept of learning stuff from books. Dumb is fun for playing once and have a good laugh, did it once but never again.

    One-Hander, Gifted, S:5, P:6, E:4, C:7, I:8, A:10, L:7
    Tagged: Melee, Throwing, Speech

    I use Magnus' mod, but I modified it a bit, lost my knifes too often when I just wanted to switch off aimed attacks now all knifes have a 4AP/2Hex thrust attack and a 3/1 slash-attack here. The throwing knifes in the other hand do the trick well enough, no need to be able to throw away the main weapon.
     
  20. Minigun Jim

    Minigun Jim It Wandered In From the Wastes

    157
    May 12, 2008
    There's a difference between "perfect balance" and "challenging". FO2 is heavy on the "challenge" side. A good example is how it's possible to get the equipment and exp-filled city of New Reno mapped straight from the Den, but you'll likely get your arse kicked by the random encounters near there. EPA just seems cheap with the guns as they are. It's a puzzle area, so yeah, it's not supposed to be combat heavy. However, the best loot requires no puzzle solving. Therefore, no challenge.

    For most players, after the first play through, running across the biggest guns about halfway through is going to feel rather lame. Really, beating a puzzle to get a weapon you actually want is more rewarding than running across stuff that makes the game far too easy. If you want to try a silly shortcut game, tag Outdoorsman and go straight to Navarro to get the Adv. Power Armor and some big guns. Or figure the shortcut strategy for the Toxic Caves cache.

    Otherwise the game is best balanced so an average character will have a progression in the toughness of foes and power of equipment as they progress. Then, cheating the game for shortcuts and speedruns becomes a challenge in itself.