Fallout 3 at PAX: GayGamer and That VideoGame Blog

[The Dutch Ghost]

Perhaps Fallout 3 simply is like the people it caters to; simple, predictable, and full of itself.

I am GODHONEST sick and tired of every Bethesda strawman and apologist who wants to mettle their strength with the Beast NMA.

 

[welsh]

Folks- remember-
Thou shalt not troll
Thou shalt not flame.

Thou shalt endeavor to be cordial.

And when quoting someone, please distinguish the quote from the report, ya?

 

[PaladinHeart]

We should judge the game on its own merits rather than saying this or that was done better in Fallout 1/2 and/or just as cheesy in Fallout 1/2.

Simms should logically arrest the player if he sees the player messing with the bomb. And who isn't going to notice the detonator on it? People look at the bomb every day. It's highly likely that someone would notice and disable the detonator before you made it back to the tower.

It's my guess that Simms would remove the detonator, or possibly have someone in town do so that knows what they're doing, and then he would hunt down and arrest the PC to learn more about why you'd want to do such a thing. Possibly even interrogating you for evidence against Burke.

 

[squinty]

Pick the battles you can win, ignore the ones you can only lose?

Sounds like a sensible way of thinking to me.

 

[Moving Target]

We should judge the game on its own merits rather than saying this or that was done better in Fallout 1/2 and/or just as cheesy in Fallout 1/2.

We should, yes, but to bring it back to the bunch of posts that got us to this point (here and in other threads):

You also can't excuse bad design decisions by looking at some poor choices in the first two games and saying, "But they did it, we should be able to also."

Simms should logically arrest the player if he sees the player messing with the bomb. And who isn't going to notice the detonator on it? People look at the bomb every day. It's highly likely that someone would notice and disable the detonator before you made it back to the tower.

Now *that* would've been a better quest design: Have Simms arrest the new Vault Dweller (whatever it's going to be named IG), then start lecturing about how much trouble the character's in... and start squeezing for info about Burke and try to switch the character's side toward Simms' and away from Burke's.

It would be extra funny because quite a few players would be like "Wait a minute... someone gave me a quest! I'm supposed to go through this unopposed (or nearly so.) What the hell?" A common problem when you only play hand-holding cRPGs for years. But very funny to see the reaction when someone runs face-first into actual IG consequences.

And if Bethsoft had any sense in writing, they could've done what the original developers wanted to do and have a "But I thought he was the GOOD guy!" moment with the montage ending of FO3 re: Simms and not detonating the bomb.

'Course, just the fact that the bomb is there in the first place doesn't bode well for that sort of potential in the writing.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Simms should... against Burke.

Here is the problem, what you wrote regarding that quest and consequences actually makes sense, but some people think that such a thing would not be fun, henceforth should be avoided.

Edit:

Hell, if I was a quest designer I would actually take note of these suggestions people are giving, it breaks the mold and brings up complete new and interesting situations.

 

[squinty]

Course, just the fact that the bomb is there in the first place doesn't bode well for that sort of potential in the writing

How much detail do you go into though? How much backstory is enough? There is a game to play here afterall.

 

[Moving Target]

I'm not talking about backstory, I'm just asking for a little logic. The whole Megaton quest falls apart if you so much as look at it wrong, let alone if you ask a few questions about motive and so on.

And please, don't bring up the "It's okay because it's fun" excuse. It's been dismissed so many times it's not even remotely entertaining when someone tries to bring it back again.

 

[squinty]

Fair enough, but surely your own imagination can fill in any gaps. Games don't have to tell you the whole story. The whole point of role-play is you can be, feel or percieve anything you want. No single game is going to cover every angle or satisfy every question you have. It does give you the background though.

 

[Brother None]

Games don't have to tell you the whole story.

No, but the very lowest, most basic demand on game stories is "has to has inner consistency".

Do I care that I'm not really sure what's going on in Portal? No, because it tells enough for me to understand what's going on, without any of it conflicting with anything else in the game's story.

If you tell me a world is destroyed by nukes and people are trying to build a new society on the scraps of the old, and then tell me one town is built "in the crater of" (?!) an unexploded live nuclear bomb, then you're giving me some inner consistency issues.

 

[aronsearle]

but surely your own imagination can fill in any gaps.

Why would I want to do that to a story I perceive as flawed, and uninspiring.

I don't understand why you would make such a defence for any game/film/book, rather than to expect the writer to inspire you?

 

[Texas Renegade]

Ok, the crater of an unexploded nuke is being way too big of a deal here.

Ok, I have no idea how heavy the nuke in Megaton is, but I would guess it is probably at least 1000lbs, probably more. Ok, said object is dropped from 50,000 ft, falls from space, or however the bombs were delivered in the war, its gonna make a pretty good sized hole in the ground.

Megaton itself isn't built inside the crater, it is built around the little crater around the bomb with the water pooled in it.

As for why people would build around it...I don't imagine survivors of a nuclear bombardment are too picky about what they conceive to be a sign of hope presented in the form of a bomb that didn't go boom.

Plus, no one in the town is a nuclear weapons specialist, they probably figure the bomb was a dud and presents no issue.

 

[squinty]

Why? It seems madness I grant you but that does not mean some nutcases wouldn't look upon the unexploded bomb as a sign that the surrounded area was 'chosen by unseen forces' as being a safe place to live. Don't get me wrong I would be running hard in the opposite direction but I'm sure some manipulative soul prepared to run the risk of being blown sky high might stay behind and spread religious nonsense if he got to control a few people.

 

[Brother None]

Ok, the crater of an unexploded nuke is being way too big of a deal here.

*thumps TR on the head*

I'm not making a big deal of it, I'm saying it doesn't make sense. And it doesn't. If that's not a big deal to you, fine, then don't talk about it.

Ok, said object is dropped from 50,000 ft, falls from space, or however the bombs were delivered in the war, its gonna make a pretty good sized hole in the ground.

No, really, it's not. High velocity just means it hits harder, but unless it explodes/shatter (nuclear or otherwise), it won't leave that big a hole.

Megaton itself isn't built inside the crater, it is built around the little crater around the bomb with the water pooled in it.

Oh dear. And here Pete Hines said - literally - "Megaton was built in the crater of an unexploded nuclear bomb" during the demo showing I saw. We'd better tell him he's wrong, eh?

As for why people would build around it...I don't imagine survivors of a nuclear bombardment are too picky about what they conceive to be a sign of hope presented in the form of a bomb that didn't go boom.

So you're saying survivors of nuclear bombardments are really stupid?

Plus, no one in the town is a nuclear weapons specialist, they probably figure the bomb was a dud and presents no issue.

Sheriff Simms asks you to disarm it, so he knows it is a live bomb.

Didn't I just say this to you already?

 

[TheGM]

As for that damn bomb. Does anybody know how long a Atom Bomb would last?

A Neutron bomb is only useable of 10 years. That sucker has been sitting there for 200.

Anybody know the life of uranium?

 

[squinty]

Quite possibly the sheriff is keeping that to himself. If he tells everybody it's an active bomb, they may all bugger off leaving him sheriff of. . . . . nothing.

 

[ArmorB]

If the spot were soft enough, such as sand, then you would have displacement to create a crater. Just look at the moon. No explosions just impact effects. Yes the craters on the moon are exaggerated due to less gravity but the effect is the same.

And overly stressed individuals looking at ANYTHING as a sign is pretty typical in literature and reality. Do I need to mention the damn Jesus grilled cheese?

 

[Brother None]

Anybody know the life of uranium?

Uranium has a pretty long half-life, but I'm not sure how long an atom bomb will remain effective if left lying about.

Quite possibly the sheriff is keeping that to himself. If he tells everybody it's an active bomb, they may all bugger off leaving him sheriff of. . . . . nothing.

Sure, but he is the one that spotted the PC messing around with live nuclear bomb in the middle of his town.

If the spot were soft enough, such as sand, then you would have displacement to create a crater.

If the spot were that soft:
a) one could not build houses over it
b) it would have been displaced again by winds and movements

Do I need to mention the damn Jesus grilled cheese?

I'm not sure, but I don't think Jesus grilled cheese has tendency to explode in fiery nuclear death.

 

[Ausir]

Uranium has a pretty long half-life, but I'm not sure how long an atom bomb will remain effective if left lying about.

They make them better in the 2070s.

 

[ArmorB]

But that's the whole point, that one didn't explode and that's why it was sent from God as a sign...

Many costal cities are build on sand, and they stay just fine but hit them with a huge impace and then see how they feel...