Fallout 3 Compendium - Release 12 - Beta v0.6.0.2
- Thread starter Dubby
- Start date
Misanthrope
First time out of the vault
I like all of these changes except for one: having AP affect real-time combat.
I agree with a previous poster; trying to modify FPS combat to one more based on AP does little more than make that FPS experience lower quality. FO3 isn't FO1/2, and while I definately agree with rebalancing and tweaking it to be more consistent with past titles, this mainly has to do with changing stats, power, etc, not altering the game engine itself.
Otherwise, great job, 9/10.
I agree with a previous poster; trying to modify FPS combat to one more based on AP does little more than make that FPS experience lower quality. FO3 isn't FO1/2, and while I definately agree with rebalancing and tweaking it to be more consistent with past titles, this mainly has to do with changing stats, power, etc, not altering the game engine itself.
Otherwise, great job, 9/10.
Dubby; the below mod might prove very usefull for you, replace the shack with a vault location or some other framing device, and you got yourself a greatly enhanced ROLEPLAYING experience.
IMHO
I will try combining this with F3C to see if that makes it a bit more bearable as a RPG
http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1784
IMHO
I will try combining this with F3C to see if that makes it a bit more bearable as a RPG
http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1784
My my, lots of debate since yesterday. I'll clear up a few things about the next release of F3C.
1) Damage from conventional firearms are going to be based solely on the mechanics of the cartridges being fired. This includes things like armor penetration, hollow-point mushrooming, and high velocity fragmentation.
2) The accuracy of conventional firearms, and thusly the effective range, is based on both the cartridge being fired, and the specifics of the firearm's barrel. Such as how tightly the bore matches the caliber, the degree of spin imparted on the round, and the length of the barrel.
3) There won't be a "DAM" display under the weapon in the pipboy anymore. Instead the weapon statistics are going to be under the "Effects" panel below it. For example, you would see something like this with the N99 10mm pistol: "KE 10, Rng 50, Mod 20/5". The first number is the kinetic energy - or the base damage of each round. The second number is the effective range. The third number, the first one in the 'Mod' parameter, identifies how much extra damage the weapon can do versus soft unarmored tissue. The last number, the second one in the 'Mod' parameter, identifies how much extra damage that can penetrate rigid armor.
4) Changes to dialogue and quests are coming after the core mechanics are finished. The Van Buren plot is being worked into the fallout 3 plot by several experienced writers.
5) The AI is going to be forcefed an Action Point based routine. Enemies will base their behavior on their primary behavioral statistics, but also on their available Action Points.
6) NPCs will expend ammo when firing a weapon, and will often carry one or more backup weapons.
7) Repairing a weapon will mean breaking down an existing firearm with tools, and using the parts to fix something else.
8) You'll have the option to switch ammo when equipping a weapon, as will the AI. If you're in power armor, and the raider has FMJ and JHP, they're going to use the FMJ against you.
9) A majority (80-90%) of the perks that are going to be in F3C are already in F3C, they're just disabled because they're incomplete (do nothing). You can view them with FOMM or the GECK.
1) Damage from conventional firearms are going to be based solely on the mechanics of the cartridges being fired. This includes things like armor penetration, hollow-point mushrooming, and high velocity fragmentation.
2) The accuracy of conventional firearms, and thusly the effective range, is based on both the cartridge being fired, and the specifics of the firearm's barrel. Such as how tightly the bore matches the caliber, the degree of spin imparted on the round, and the length of the barrel.
3) There won't be a "DAM" display under the weapon in the pipboy anymore. Instead the weapon statistics are going to be under the "Effects" panel below it. For example, you would see something like this with the N99 10mm pistol: "KE 10, Rng 50, Mod 20/5". The first number is the kinetic energy - or the base damage of each round. The second number is the effective range. The third number, the first one in the 'Mod' parameter, identifies how much extra damage the weapon can do versus soft unarmored tissue. The last number, the second one in the 'Mod' parameter, identifies how much extra damage that can penetrate rigid armor.
4) Changes to dialogue and quests are coming after the core mechanics are finished. The Van Buren plot is being worked into the fallout 3 plot by several experienced writers.
5) The AI is going to be forcefed an Action Point based routine. Enemies will base their behavior on their primary behavioral statistics, but also on their available Action Points.
6) NPCs will expend ammo when firing a weapon, and will often carry one or more backup weapons.
7) Repairing a weapon will mean breaking down an existing firearm with tools, and using the parts to fix something else.
8) You'll have the option to switch ammo when equipping a weapon, as will the AI. If you're in power armor, and the raider has FMJ and JHP, they're going to use the FMJ against you.
9) A majority (80-90%) of the perks that are going to be in F3C are already in F3C, they're just disabled because they're incomplete (do nothing). You can view them with FOMM or the GECK.
your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
JayTheGay said:
Oh, yeah I've already been using those mods.
It's just that I've read that many mods are incompatible with this compilation pack. I'm trying to make the case for "VATS with no action points", rather than "everything using action points". I hope to make VATS balanced, as balanced as good old-fashioned Fallout targetted shots.I had to start the game again, due to Windows reinstall.
Using F3C_-_Beta_-_Release_012-794 version of your mod i found out that you do not longer receive a pistol from your female mate, at the beginning of the vault 101 escape.
Is it a bug or you wanted to make the game a bit harder?
Using F3C_-_Beta_-_Release_012-794 version of your mod i found out that you do not longer receive a pistol from your female mate, at the beginning of the vault 101 escape.
Is it a bug or you wanted to make the game a bit harder?
wannabenerd
First time out of the vault
Dubby said:
What a sweet number of fixes. Good job mate
Idea #4 is a dream come true. I didn't know if you folks would be bold enough to tackle this, but I'm glad you are. I might just relent of playing Fallout 3 until a couple of these core elements are finished. I have two more ideas I'd like to add though, and then I think I'll just sit tight.
From what I understand from the readme, Action Points regenerate at a fixed rate of 7 per second. Well, if someone has a high agility I don't see how this will reward the character other than the beginning of combat. My thought is to increase the rate of AP regeneration based on your agility... like for instance at a minimum of 7 with an agility of 5 and below.... and upwards to 10 or 11 with an agility of 10. This could finally make agility a valuable skill and keep high agility characters active in fast-paced, AP intensive combat.
My last thought is when this mod is finally complete, you could put together an executable setup where a person can choose what features he would like to add, like keeping combat the way it is or strictly AP combat, harder enemies or regular enemies, perception affects all guns or endurance, percetion and agility effects different guns as designed by Bethesda. This would make it an all encompassing mod that would please the die-hard Fallout vets as well as the Fallout newbies... lol
A while.
I've finished ammo, revolvers, handguns, and machine pistols (smg)... and the basic scripts from r12 and the game settings. Still lots to do however, lots and lots.
AP Regeneration can be modulated with FOSE. I could technically work a script to simulate the same thing, but you'd never be able to tell what your maximum AP was... which is kind of bad, so I'd rather use extended functions of FOSE to adjust the game setting in real time based on your Agility.
In other words, it's probably going to be after new year's.
I've finished ammo, revolvers, handguns, and machine pistols (smg)... and the basic scripts from r12 and the game settings. Still lots to do however, lots and lots.
AP Regeneration can be modulated with FOSE. I could technically work a script to simulate the same thing, but you'd never be able to tell what your maximum AP was... which is kind of bad, so I'd rather use extended functions of FOSE to adjust the game setting in real time based on your Agility.
In other words, it's probably going to be after new year's.
your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Ah. I think I may have now lost interest in this mod. Most of this stuff sounds very impressive - especially working the Van Buren stuff into the plot - but I have no interest in making enemies use action points to make Fallout 3 turn based.
Imagine a bit of any other first-person-shooter. Let's take Half-Life 2. The epic bit by the lighthouse where multiple Combine drop ships land and drop off squads of soldiers, pulse rifles blazing. Now imagine the soldiers only get to run a few paces, fire three shots each, and then slowly WALK while you shoot at them. It's absurd. It would seem like the Combine AI had suddenly stopped working, they are just standing there waiting to get shot, why aren't they shooting at me anymore? It would seem to be a bug, not a feature.
Imagine if the game had been sold that way, and marketed as "a turn-based first-person-shooter". People who have said "well, the story is great, the characters are great, the graphics and physics are impressive. The action is OK, but, but it would have been rather more convincing if everyone didn't spend two thirds of their time standing around doing nothing. Why do we take turns shooting at each other? What's the point of that?"
It's not that I minded the turn-based nature of the old Fallout games. I found the games very enjoyable. But the fact that they were turn-based was never a selling point for me, it wasn't a favourite feature. For me, what made Fallout fantastic was the great setting, the story, the characters, the weapons, the violence.
I'd have been just as happy - in fact, perhaps even happier - if the game had been real-time. Like the classic DOS game Crusader: No Remorse, and Crusader: No Regret. Those were awesome isometric third-person shooters. Alas, back then the people that did exciting shooters weren't much into story or characers or plot, while the people that were into those things enjoyed pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons style games rather than "shallow" shooters.
When I heard that Bethesda were making Fallout 3, I was downhearted because I knew the story wouldn't be a "proper" Fallout story from the original creators, and chances are it was going to be a dumbed down modern console game. But I was NOT sad about the fact that it was a first person shooter rather than a turn-based isometric game.
Other than Fallout, my other most favourite games of all time are Half-Life, Deus Ex and System Shock 2. Deus Ex and System Shock 2 are fantastic examples of how to do first-person RPGs. Neither are turn-based. Both are most definately RPGs. Both have great stories and characters.
The way I see it, the fact that Fallout 3 is a real-time shooter rather than a turn-based game is one of its strengths. Its weakness are its story and its gameplay balance problems.
When it comes to fixing up the story, fixing balance issues, etc, I feel that mods are improving upon Bethesda's work and making Fallout 3 the game it should have been. But making Fallout 3 a turn-based first-person-shooter... that's just a mod for die-hard Fallout fans obsessed with making the game turn-based. Why? What's the reason for making it turn-based? "Cause the old games were turn-based." Well, the old games were isometric, are going to turn Fallout 3 isometric? If you want an isometric turn-based Van Buren do it as a Fallout 2 mod, that would be awesome.
Is it that you specifically don't like real time games? Do you play Half-Life or Deus Ex or Mass Effect or STALKER and think "I wish this were turn based?"
Turn-based first-person Fallout 3 will be absolutely daft, and will be played by a total of... ooh, twenty people. In the whole world. I expect you'll get far higher downloads - I'm sure lots of people will down the mod to try it, out of a sort of morbid curiousity. They'll play it for about 15 minutes, fight a few raiders or critters in the wasteland, go "heh," and then go back to playing regular Fallout 3.
I thought the intention of the Fallout 3 Compendium was to "fix" Fallout 3, to solve Fallout 3's problems. To 99.9% of people, the fact that the game is real-time is NOT a problem. Fallout 3's problems are its daft quests, dodgy dialogue, silly karma system, silly food, sleep and radiation systems, an unsatisfying main quest, and VATS-mode being a supernatural bullet-time God mode. That's the kind of thing that needs fixing.
Fallout 3 should have been the new Deus Ex or System Shock. The detailed, mature setting of the Fallout universe crossed with modern graphics and a sophisticated physics engine should have resulted in the ultimate immersive first-person RPG. The Fallout 3 Compendium should be trying to bring the game closer to that goal. Turn-based gameplay completely shatters that immersion because it turns battles between Raiders, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood of Steel and the Enclave into flintlock pistol duels of 17th century gentlemen.
Imagine a bit of any other first-person-shooter. Let's take Half-Life 2. The epic bit by the lighthouse where multiple Combine drop ships land and drop off squads of soldiers, pulse rifles blazing. Now imagine the soldiers only get to run a few paces, fire three shots each, and then slowly WALK while you shoot at them. It's absurd. It would seem like the Combine AI had suddenly stopped working, they are just standing there waiting to get shot, why aren't they shooting at me anymore? It would seem to be a bug, not a feature.
Imagine if the game had been sold that way, and marketed as "a turn-based first-person-shooter". People who have said "well, the story is great, the characters are great, the graphics and physics are impressive. The action is OK, but, but it would have been rather more convincing if everyone didn't spend two thirds of their time standing around doing nothing. Why do we take turns shooting at each other? What's the point of that?"
It's not that I minded the turn-based nature of the old Fallout games. I found the games very enjoyable. But the fact that they were turn-based was never a selling point for me, it wasn't a favourite feature. For me, what made Fallout fantastic was the great setting, the story, the characters, the weapons, the violence.
I'd have been just as happy - in fact, perhaps even happier - if the game had been real-time. Like the classic DOS game Crusader: No Remorse, and Crusader: No Regret. Those were awesome isometric third-person shooters. Alas, back then the people that did exciting shooters weren't much into story or characers or plot, while the people that were into those things enjoyed pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons style games rather than "shallow" shooters.
When I heard that Bethesda were making Fallout 3, I was downhearted because I knew the story wouldn't be a "proper" Fallout story from the original creators, and chances are it was going to be a dumbed down modern console game. But I was NOT sad about the fact that it was a first person shooter rather than a turn-based isometric game.
Other than Fallout, my other most favourite games of all time are Half-Life, Deus Ex and System Shock 2. Deus Ex and System Shock 2 are fantastic examples of how to do first-person RPGs. Neither are turn-based. Both are most definately RPGs. Both have great stories and characters.
The way I see it, the fact that Fallout 3 is a real-time shooter rather than a turn-based game is one of its strengths. Its weakness are its story and its gameplay balance problems.
When it comes to fixing up the story, fixing balance issues, etc, I feel that mods are improving upon Bethesda's work and making Fallout 3 the game it should have been. But making Fallout 3 a turn-based first-person-shooter... that's just a mod for die-hard Fallout fans obsessed with making the game turn-based. Why? What's the reason for making it turn-based? "Cause the old games were turn-based." Well, the old games were isometric, are going to turn Fallout 3 isometric? If you want an isometric turn-based Van Buren do it as a Fallout 2 mod, that would be awesome.
Is it that you specifically don't like real time games? Do you play Half-Life or Deus Ex or Mass Effect or STALKER and think "I wish this were turn based?"
Turn-based first-person Fallout 3 will be absolutely daft, and will be played by a total of... ooh, twenty people. In the whole world. I expect you'll get far higher downloads - I'm sure lots of people will down the mod to try it, out of a sort of morbid curiousity. They'll play it for about 15 minutes, fight a few raiders or critters in the wasteland, go "heh," and then go back to playing regular Fallout 3.
I thought the intention of the Fallout 3 Compendium was to "fix" Fallout 3, to solve Fallout 3's problems. To 99.9% of people, the fact that the game is real-time is NOT a problem. Fallout 3's problems are its daft quests, dodgy dialogue, silly karma system, silly food, sleep and radiation systems, an unsatisfying main quest, and VATS-mode being a supernatural bullet-time God mode. That's the kind of thing that needs fixing.
Fallout 3 should have been the new Deus Ex or System Shock. The detailed, mature setting of the Fallout universe crossed with modern graphics and a sophisticated physics engine should have resulted in the ultimate immersive first-person RPG. The Fallout 3 Compendium should be trying to bring the game closer to that goal. Turn-based gameplay completely shatters that immersion because it turns battles between Raiders, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood of Steel and the Enclave into flintlock pistol duels of 17th century gentlemen.
Dubby said:
.. so you´re saying you gonna do it the AG-makes-animation-speeds way?!?!
heeeell yeah! that its imo the best possible solution, dynamic and still tactical! and in case you do it, i´ll use all of my noob powers to make a cool VATS mod with slow mo where it should be, not more not less! ..in case i just got u wrong, there might be a possible AP soluton- everyone has a fixed number of AP, lets say 10 (with BIGGER DAMN INDICATOR POINTS so you can actually see how many AP there are at all..), and your AG determines solely the AP regeneration speed
but i want to encourage you once again to the animation speed + realtime/nogodmode-VATS solution, i think evil twin has alredy said more then i ever could about how much it would rule
Your evil twin almost all games go into 3d enviroment some ends bad some end good this is a thing that most of game creators dont think
its new era of 3d so all must be 3d sad but truth even freaking chess are 3d now ...
As for AP dont judge until u will see the new mod release
its new era of 3d so all must be 3d sad but truth even freaking chess are 3d now ...
As for AP dont judge until u will see the new mod release
your evil twin said:
You sir make offensive and unwarranted assumptions.
The utmost and foremost reasoning for turn-based in any sort of game is to allow for preemptive planning and strategy making. Soldiers and officers spend many months and even years training themselves so they can make the right move at the right time without hesitation or contemplation. A game, in this case a role-playing game where one immerses oneself in the concept of being another individual, must take into account this fundamental law of reasoning. You see where this goes, yes? Furthermore, there are numerous methods of which such a mechanism can be unwittingly endured by a great many of players without any impairment to the enjoyability or thrill of playing.
your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Dubby said:
How were my assumptions offensive?
I didn't say anything insulting about you. I said that the fact that Fallout 3 isn't turn based isn't a problem that needs fixing. That's not an insult. Furthermore, I said that EVERYTHING ELSE in your list was a good idea. That's a compliment. I was criticising ONE of your proposals.
I'm not sure I understand your point about officers and soldiers spending months and years training themselves to make the right move at the right time without hesitation. Surely the whole point of training to be able to make the right move "without hesistation" is that in real life there are no "turns", so you don't have time to think about what to do? That's why soldiers and officers have to spend months and years training, so they can know what to do in an instant.
Are you saying that because you are NOT an officer or soldier you are unable to make quick decisions without hesistation, and therefore you want turns so you can take your time? I want to make it clear I'm not insulting you, I'm asking you if that's what you are saying, cause I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
Also, if your point is that we are not trained soldiers and we need time to make good decisions... you'd have more of a point if the intention was to make Fallout 3 truly turn based - as in, each player would be able to do a few seconds of action, while the other is totally immobilized, and then the two sides swap. But the system you have proposed is that both the player and enemies will have regenerating action points, and that all actions (moving, shooting etc) will use up these points. This means that if the player and the enemies see each other at approximately the same time then you'll both attack each other at the same time (exactly like a normal first person shooter!), and then you'll both run out of action points, and both the player and the enemies will be left unable to do anything for several seconds. Then the action points of both sides will regenerate, and then you'll get several seconds of normal first person shooter combat again.
So somtimes you'll have proper turns, but sometimes both your turns and enemy turns will coincide with each other. So that won't really be turn based combat. It'll just be combat where every few seconds people have to stop and do nothing. It just don't see how that kind of thing is going to make Fallout 3 a better game.
chill guys <3
i think evil twin only wanted to say how much it is retarded when people just stand there regenerating their AP, and i know how retarded it is from many years of fallout tactics coop,where you would stand there and regen your AP, and so only get real advantage of high Agility at start of a battle.
still beats regular FPS in my oppinion, but in our case, animation speeds influated by AG plus VATS´s possibility to pause the things and think of what you do now would give you the tactical controll, while just not bothering with AP, but influate your real speed instead. this is an opportunity.
i think evil twin only wanted to say how much it is retarded when people just stand there regenerating their AP, and i know how retarded it is from many years of fallout tactics coop,where you would stand there and regen your AP, and so only get real advantage of high Agility at start of a battle.
still beats regular FPS in my oppinion, but in our case, animation speeds influated by AG plus VATS´s possibility to pause the things and think of what you do now would give you the tactical controll, while just not bothering with AP, but influate your real speed instead. this is an opportunity.