Individual animation speeds can't be messed with on the fly like that, but the ai's combat styles can have the timers for attack intervals changed (but only by changing the combat style). Which is doable. The original Van Buren alpha was a turn-based first person shooter. Budget cuts and engine concerns changed that.
Fallout 3 Compendium - Release 12 - Beta v0.6.0.2
- Thread starter Dubby
- Start date
I agree with eviltwin, don't try to hack FO3 into FO1&2's combat system, you should embrace the new engine and combat style as any attempt to hack it into being purely turn-based will just result in an amateurish buggy failure.
I'd either leave the combat alone, or make it so you take more damage in VATS but make the guns more accurate and the accuracy tied to weapon skill rather than just the damage.
The different ammo idea is good too.
If you insist on making F3C heavily turn-based then I ask that you produce two flavours of the mod, real-time and turn-based. Don't alienate a huge audience to such a great mod over this.
I'd either leave the combat alone, or make it so you take more damage in VATS but make the guns more accurate and the accuracy tied to weapon skill rather than just the damage.
The different ammo idea is good too.
If you insist on making F3C heavily turn-based then I ask that you produce two flavours of the mod, real-time and turn-based. Don't alienate a huge audience to such a great mod over this.
I actually think that the combat is on the right track, though i do think you should be able to queue up multiple shots in VATS.
The problem right now is that the player is forced to think tactically while the enemies just bumrush you and unload. Maybe giving them AP and ammo limitations will help with that, but maybe not.
So I agree with Run and Gun ap, as well as AP spending for crouching, etc. But maybe the game is just too fast for your damage resistance to be that low.
Of course, what I'm REALLY hoping for is a true turn based, isometric system (in which case the bumrush AI would more or less be reasonable).
The problem right now is that the player is forced to think tactically while the enemies just bumrush you and unload. Maybe giving them AP and ammo limitations will help with that, but maybe not.
So I agree with Run and Gun ap, as well as AP spending for crouching, etc. But maybe the game is just too fast for your damage resistance to be that low.
Of course, what I'm REALLY hoping for is a true turn based, isometric system (in which case the bumrush AI would more or less be reasonable).
boundrose said:I had to start the game again, due to Windows reinstall.
Using F3C_-_Beta_-_Release_012-794 version of your mod i found out that you do not longer receive a pistol from your female mate, at the beginning of the vault 101 escape.
Is it a bug or you wanted to make the game a bit harder?
Dubby?
It's not like i have big problem with that, but if the game tells me "i stolen my dad's pistol, take it" and "received an item: pistol" and i can't find it in my inventory afterwards, then it's confusing.
You could change dialog scripts as well to prevent confusion
boundrose said:boundrose said:I had to start the game again, due to Windows reinstall.
Using F3C_-_Beta_-_Release_012-794 version of your mod i found out that you do not longer receive a pistol from your female mate, at the beginning of the vault 101 escape.
Is it a bug or you wanted to make the game a bit harder?
Dubby?
It's not like i have big problem with that, but if the game tells me "i stolen my dad's pistol, take it" and "received an item: pistol" and i can't find it in my inventory afterwards, then it's confusing.
You could change dialog scripts as well to prevent confusion
Yes, this happened to me as well. Also, as I've said, the pistol mesh is broken. Perhaps it's related?
Argggh the wait for the next version to arrive is killing me already. 
Just a couple of points to add though,
Firstly I'm finding playing through the current version extremely challenging - more so then F2 even, and that was an unforgiving game.
While I love the constant sense of danger the mod gives, my main gripe is that enemies (particularly raiders) can be a little too clinical in their aiming (and headshotting!) at times.
Secondly, Dubby have you considered releasing the real-time-AP element of the mod as a seperate ESP file?
That way people who prefer non AP-based combat (ala your standard 3D shooter) won't be put off from installing F3C.
Just a couple of points to add though,
Firstly I'm finding playing through the current version extremely challenging - more so then F2 even, and that was an unforgiving game.
While I love the constant sense of danger the mod gives, my main gripe is that enemies (particularly raiders) can be a little too clinical in their aiming (and headshotting!) at times.
Secondly, Dubby have you considered releasing the real-time-AP element of the mod as a seperate ESP file?
That way people who prefer non AP-based combat (ala your standard 3D shooter) won't be put off from installing F3C.
Dubby said:
If the user isn't a fan of realtime AP use (I personally don't mind it, but I can understand how others might not) then AGI would still be used for AP in VATS and as a combat skill booster.
Would be nice if it also granted some additional protection ala extra AC in F1/F2.
Speaking of VATS, I'm not a big fan of it.
Partly because it breaks the "flow" of combat and partly because I'm not overly fond of standing still while my enemies are free to attack. (albeit in slowmo)
Is there any chance of implementing some kind of realtime aiming system?
Eg. press a key on the numpad to aim for a particular bodypart without having to enter VATS at all.
EDIT: Or even a toggle system that allows the player to aim for the seleted bodypart by default, with the ability to change bodypart in pipboy. (easier to implement?)
Well, ain't it IS one?Necro- said:
Truth be told, some attempts were made to make it RPG, but in most cases were foiled by horrible writers.And besides, it's just RTWP with slo-mo, where your slo-mo (and, incidentally, 90% damage immunity) depend on your agility.
It does not mean it's bad by default - I, for one (blasphemy!) prefer well-made RTwP to TB (see Brigade E5 and 7.62 games for truly well-made RTwP)... but here it's NOT well-made, unfortunately. But I hope it can be fixed.
Ok guys, bought the game, installed F3C, played it for 4-5 hours
and...
huh...
I'm lvl2 I just talked to three dogs. This brought me to lvl3 \o/.
However, before being level 3 :
I've killed quite a few supermutants.
A behemoth (with a lucky shot from the fatman, true, yet...)
Countless raiders
Inventory wise, at level 2, I had :
brotherhood armor
fatman launcher with ammo
sako trg42 rifle ( * 2)
assault rifles (lots of)
desert eagle like pistol
FN Fal
14 nades (pretty efficient I must add)
enough food to feed Angola
laser pistols
hunting rifle
Is this normal? I mean it's the first time I play the game, and I'm overwhelmed with what pretty much looks like medium to high end weapons and armor. At level2...
Would it be 10 times worse without the mod?
and...
huh...
I'm lvl2 I just talked to three dogs. This brought me to lvl3 \o/.
However, before being level 3 :
I've killed quite a few supermutants.
A behemoth (with a lucky shot from the fatman, true, yet...)
Countless raiders
Inventory wise, at level 2, I had :
brotherhood armor
fatman launcher with ammo
sako trg42 rifle ( * 2)
assault rifles (lots of)
desert eagle like pistol
FN Fal
14 nades (pretty efficient I must add)
enough food to feed Angola
laser pistols
hunting rifle
Is this normal? I mean it's the first time I play the game, and I'm overwhelmed with what pretty much looks like medium to high end weapons and armor. At level2...
Would it be 10 times worse without the mod?
your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I severely doubt it would be possible to get those limb targetting things to occur while time isn't frozen and enemies are in motion.
Of course, if doable, it would be awesome. Imagine an enemy running closer to you, and as he does you see the percentage of hitting his head dynamically increasing from 40% to 45% to 50%... Would be fantastic. But I don't think it is possible.
A good solution is the "real-time VATS", where targetted shots don't have slow-mo and you are back out of VATS mode after just two seconds. I personally still enjoy the slow-motion VATS, but I've been trying real-time and I enjoy that too.
If JayTheGay can suceeed in making his VATS mod where slow-mo only kicks in during special stuff like critical hits, but doesn't kick in for normal hits, then it'll be the best of both world and make most people happy, I think.
Having to stand still is a fair penalty for getting the computer to aim specifically at a body-part. Outside of VATS you can try and shoot at body parts too, but of course it is much trickier. In VATS the work is done for you. It makes sense that for your character to do those good accurate shots you have to stand still.
It's also consisant with how in the turn-based Fallouts doing a targetted shot required more AP than a normal shot - doing a targetted shot meant your turn had less points for moving, reloading, etc.
Of course, if doable, it would be awesome. Imagine an enemy running closer to you, and as he does you see the percentage of hitting his head dynamically increasing from 40% to 45% to 50%...
Would be fantastic. But I don't think it is possible.A good solution is the "real-time VATS", where targetted shots don't have slow-mo and you are back out of VATS mode after just two seconds. I personally still enjoy the slow-motion VATS, but I've been trying real-time and I enjoy that too.
If JayTheGay can suceeed in making his VATS mod where slow-mo only kicks in during special stuff like critical hits, but doesn't kick in for normal hits, then it'll be the best of both world and make most people happy, I think.
Bosk said:
Having to stand still is a fair penalty for getting the computer to aim specifically at a body-part. Outside of VATS you can try and shoot at body parts too, but of course it is much trickier. In VATS the work is done for you. It makes sense that for your character to do those good accurate shots you have to stand still.
It's also consisant with how in the turn-based Fallouts doing a targetted shot required more AP than a normal shot - doing a targetted shot meant your turn had less points for moving, reloading, etc.
StanRex said:
Pretty much. Or, for now, at least. It was kind of this way with oblivion too.
The next release is a big one, I'm still working on the ammo selector scripts for just the player. The one for the NPCs is going to have to be included in the main AI-hack as a subroutine for specific weapon-equip instances.
I suppose I could use help with this, heh.
jamesmcm said:
I’m not sure the creator of this mod will listen to you. He/She has many weird ideas… so many of the are un-Fallout like and un-fun. Or perhaps should I say unrealistic? It’s like your avatar just got changed in to an old grandpa yelling:
“I’m too old for this dammit! I’m… I’m running out of action points! You darn kids and super mutants stop shooting!”
Not only does it look pathetic but VATS is pretty much useless. It’s a good thing I have 2 PC’s. It spared me the trouble of removing that crap.
I would like someone to give me 50 minutes of my life back…
Simply put this is the lvl of good ideas vs the bad:
Good:
----------------------
Bad:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So the fun of using weapons is simply craptastic! I liked the old fallout games but this is just too much. Not to mention the weird changes such as (let me cite a specific examples):
[Radiation] Poking around radioactive waste will not grant you super powers. Radiation is more difficult
to get rid of, and all a doctor can do to help is sell you Rad Away.
LOL? WTF? Play more Fallout 2? Some doctors could remove your radiation. Even that coward in vault 15 and all for free! I guess the creator didn’t notice noticed there is a LIVE ATOMIC BOMB the middle of Megaton. So the doctor and many others should be able to cure radiation poisoning. But not all.
[Armor] Power Armor Mk I upgrades the wearer's strength to 8, regardless of their own real strength.
Power Armor Mk II increases by a further point, to a maximum of 9. If you're already stronger than this,
the Power Armor provides no strength bonus. In addition, wearing Power Armor does not require training
to equip, but the training helps.
Huh? Power armor MK I and MK II? Never heard of them. All I know is that there was a T-51b, then the new Power Armor (T-4x series) and the Enclave Power Armor that was previously known as the Advanced Power Armor and it also had a MK II version. So what’s up with the weird names? And setting strength instead of increasing it while worn by 3/4.
Personally I’d just bring the power armors on pair with one another. The BOS did work on their Combat Armors did they not? Then why the hell would they not improve their own Power Armor technology?
For example. The T-4x series upgraded with T-51b’s hydraulics could give additionally 1 more point of agility and 1 strength instead of 2 + carry some of it’s weight (around 20 lbs should be ok). It’s texture should also look as it was made of composite parts. Instead of a weird looking plate mail. It also has way too many bolts for something that should look advanced. Oh and the radiation resistance it gives… laughable. I’d set to 35 and give the helmet another 5 and +1 Perception since it looks as if it had air filtering and some sensors.
Next. It is easy to give a lot of Brotherhood guys the T-51b’s. I’ve managed to do that with my extremely limited (almost none existent) programming skills. But I couldn’t give it +4 Strength, +5 Big Guns, 30 radiation resistance (+ another 5 for the helmet with +1 Perception) nor around 30 lbs to carry it’s own weight. What’s worse the model is too small! And it looks like crap. I’m just hoping Gustavo will adjust that model soon.
The Advanced/Enclave Power Armors: +4 Strength, 35 radiation resistance (+ another 5 for the helmet with +1 Perception).
Everyone should have their own favorite Armor they could wear. Something that would fit their taste and play style without gimping their defenses. Equal armors with slightly different statistics and fully un-degradable like in the first games. Sure you’d need to fix them up at first but then they’d be all nice and useful until the end. But even then Riley’s Rangers armor (Ranger Battle Armor) shouldn’t become useless but it’s defenses should be slightly lower then those of a Power Armor.
I believe people NEED choices. Even if Damage Resistances and Damage Thresholds are made it should not cause this: “I love the look of my armor! Ta… ta… ta… oh look! Here’s something… hmmm a Power Armor… hmm it’s stats are nice but I don’t like it! I’m a military sniper type. I don’t want to change my +5 Action Points, +1 luck and +10 Small Guns for this HUGE boost in defenses… I feel so gimped…”. This was avoided in the vanilla but only partially. Some people actually started to prefer the Range’s armor over Power Armors because it wasn’t hard to repair. But with the repair issue gone and the –Agility removed all that could change and we could have more balanced armors. Now add a 5th type of armor for the sneaky people – a unique Black Recon Armor with a built in stealth field (I’m not sure but some modder already managed to do this I think). You could just start sneaking and poof! Instant stealth field with a sneak bonus of 20, +1 Agility and 25 Radiation Resistance.
And with Damage Resistances / Thresholds all of them would get some interesting statistic. For example:
Armor | Damage Type | Damage Resistance
Recon Normal 45%
Ranger Normal 50%
T-4x Normal 55%
T-51b Normal 60%
Enclave Normal 55%
MKII Normal 60%
Tesla Normal 45%
I didn’t include the Medic armor since it should simply have the T-51b’s stats with +5 more Radiation resistance. But instead of Med-X it should inject Stimpacks.
After that Laser, Plasma etc. with Damage Thresholds. Or just some proper % but then I’m guessing the Weapon Penetration should be adjusted.
In the end I’d just need to give them some proper names like:
Modified T-47a Power Armor
T-51b MK II Power Armor
Advanced Power Armor
And everything regarding armors would be pretty much perfect.
Now I Have simply no idea how to do most of that stuff. Especially when it comes to setting statistics like +3 Strength. But if you know a decent modder or if there is one reading this… then please… I beg you. Do something like this. Don’t let people slaughter Fallout 3. Because their just not being reasobale.
And jamesmcm. I coudn't agree with you more except for the damage in Vats that should be normal 100% damage. But like I have said at the very start of this long post. I think people who like the combat the way it was will simply be ignored. And great stuff this mod provides will be lost to us.
*sigh* May as well explain what's coming in a little more detail then. Armor is going to have the following statistics:
AC, DR, TH, SR, HR, TR, ER, PR, and RR. However only those with a non-zero value will be visible, and SR/HR will be abbreviated as a defense mod. The HELP panels (that automatically show up the first time when starting a new game) will give full, detailed information on what all these mean and why they're important.
AC = This is the damage resistance of the armor relative to the armor's condition. As condition drops, AC will drop. Even if the armor breaks, it can still be worn and provide basic defense with DR.
DR = This is the base-line damage resistance armor (and perks) can provide against kinetic energy (physical damage).
TH = The threshold percentile for resisting kinetic energy.
SR = This represents the relative softness of something.
HR = This represents the relative hardness of something.
TR = This is used for non-physical-type attacks, and represents the armor's resistance to thermal (heat) energy.
ER = This represents the armor's level of conductivity, or how well it absorbs (or conducts) electrical energy.
PR = This one is a bit of a misnomer, the abbreviation is for Plasma Resistance, but to the game this represents the hardiness of an object's current state of matter. In other words, its resistance to sudden and extreme temperatures.
RR = Radiation Resistance.
Weapon statistics are different, and represented in a different way as well. This is what you'd see for a chinese pistol using 9mm hollow-point rounds:
KE 5, Rng 50, Mod 15/5
First number represents the basic physical damage per round. Second number is the effective range if the weapon+round in meters. Third number (first one in Mod) represents how damaging the round is to soft tissue. Fourth number (second one in Mod) represents how well the round is able to penetrate body armor. To switch the ammo loaded in a weapon, you have to re-equip the firearm from the pipboy menu (not the hotkey menu). Encase you're wondering, explosions cause a combination of KE & TE (thermal energy), among other types depending on the specific type of explosion.
Enemies will also know how to use these mechanics to their advantage, and swap ammunition type depending on their enemy's protections and their own wits.
AC, DR, TH, SR, HR, TR, ER, PR, and RR. However only those with a non-zero value will be visible, and SR/HR will be abbreviated as a defense mod. The HELP panels (that automatically show up the first time when starting a new game) will give full, detailed information on what all these mean and why they're important.
AC = This is the damage resistance of the armor relative to the armor's condition. As condition drops, AC will drop. Even if the armor breaks, it can still be worn and provide basic defense with DR.
DR = This is the base-line damage resistance armor (and perks) can provide against kinetic energy (physical damage).
TH = The threshold percentile for resisting kinetic energy.
SR = This represents the relative softness of something.
HR = This represents the relative hardness of something.
TR = This is used for non-physical-type attacks, and represents the armor's resistance to thermal (heat) energy.
ER = This represents the armor's level of conductivity, or how well it absorbs (or conducts) electrical energy.
PR = This one is a bit of a misnomer, the abbreviation is for Plasma Resistance, but to the game this represents the hardiness of an object's current state of matter. In other words, its resistance to sudden and extreme temperatures.
RR = Radiation Resistance.
Weapon statistics are different, and represented in a different way as well. This is what you'd see for a chinese pistol using 9mm hollow-point rounds:
KE 5, Rng 50, Mod 15/5
First number represents the basic physical damage per round. Second number is the effective range if the weapon+round in meters. Third number (first one in Mod) represents how damaging the round is to soft tissue. Fourth number (second one in Mod) represents how well the round is able to penetrate body armor. To switch the ammo loaded in a weapon, you have to re-equip the firearm from the pipboy menu (not the hotkey menu). Encase you're wondering, explosions cause a combination of KE & TE (thermal energy), among other types depending on the specific type of explosion.
Enemies will also know how to use these mechanics to their advantage, and swap ammunition type depending on their enemy's protections and their own wits.
I do not recall there being any degradable/dropping AC in Fallout nor Fallout 2 nor Tactics.
Either way… more bad changes… less pew, pew hello boring repairs! And picking up every single weapon you can find instead of concentrating on Mutant Cleansing. Next thing you’ll know repairs will require Action Points…
No one wants to make this game a real Fallout game combining both the new and the old to actually make it more fun to play. Except for the people that take care of the textures. Green super mutants bring a smile to my face. Especially when their using Miniguns and other weapons that deal a lot more damage per shot. So that the hiding actually makes some sense.
Either way… more bad changes… less pew, pew hello boring repairs! And picking up every single weapon you can find instead of concentrating on Mutant Cleansing. Next thing you’ll know repairs will require Action Points…
No one wants to make this game a real Fallout game combining both the new and the old to actually make it more fun to play. Except for the people that take care of the textures. Green super mutants bring a smile to my face. Especially when their using Miniguns and other weapons that deal a lot more damage per shot. So that the hiding actually makes some sense.