Fallout 3 interview on Eurogamer

Fallout 3 is like if someone purchased the Final Fantasy property and turned it into a porno. :P

They don't care anything about what Fallout was all about. They just wanted the game name (or IP / intellectual property or whatever) to do their own thing. I guess it was worth the $5 million to them. And also worth the fan backlash.

Why didn't they just go, "Hey.. why call it Fallout 3? Let's just call it Fallout and pretend the first 2 games never existed. We own it all anyway...".
 
I have to honestly admit...

I have never been so fucking mad in my entire life... (and I'm always kind of mad)

To say the things that they did, that they don't owe anything to the developers or the fanbase...

I'm so mad right now, I think I've actually had some sort of aneurysm, because I can think of little else to do than start my own game studio and blow everyone out of the fucking water...
 
DedEye said:
First I'd like to say: Hi! :)
*snip*

F3 will certainly be innovative compared to the first 2, but as others have pointed out, is it truly a successor if its core gameplay, layout, and combat systems are so significantly changed? Will this really be a Fallout game and not another spin off?

Time will tell I s'pose.

Sorry to say but I'm sure It will be FINO3. Their biggest fuck up is the name. Call it Fallout: anything else and most people would like it. their shitty attitude towards fans/creators of Fallout doesn't help them either.
 
One thing is for sure, I will deffinately look into "Eurogamer" more often. The questions the guy asked...sensible and reasonable questions that everyone would ask, that's journalism. All other magazines were too busy praising the unreleased game.And here it is...al the sad interesting info to look at :? , straight from the horse's mouth.

I wish we could get a straight answer as to why they bought the ip. From the "business mogul" point of view it was a terrible decision. I can only see loss coming out of it. I know people flame fallout fans, wish them to die horrible deaths and dismiss them as "rabid fanboys", but well, the contempt is very reasonable and the backlash will get to them big time, even tough the game will certainly be a hit ( given the state of the game making industry nowadays, specially the rpg game making industry :? ).

'We're big and dirty fallout fans" doesn't cut it...mostly because they don't even know what the game is about, and the travesty going on is pretty much their own thing at heart... (yup. It deffinately ain't fallout, even tough it's called that way). What we are seeing is a product of bethesda's creativity really. And that's not a good and positive thing at all.

Someone care to explain? I'm really lost as to why they spent 5 million on the ip, even if it's a small sum for them. A lot has been said about it, but heck, putting myself in the place of bethesda's heads that did it, I can't accept none of them theories...
 
Slicerdicer said:
DedEye said:
First I'd like to say: Hi! :)
*snip*

F3 will certainly be innovative compared to the first 2, but as others have pointed out, is it truly a successor if its core gameplay, layout, and combat systems are so significantly changed? Will this really be a Fallout game and not another spin off?

Time will tell I s'pose.

Sorry to say but I'm sure It will be FINO3. Their biggest fuck up is the name. Call it Fallout: anything else and most people would like it. their shitty attitude towards fans/creators of Fallout doesn't help them either.
Well, as long as it wouldn't be called FO: BOS 2, or FO3, it'd be alright. :wink:
 
nice interview

good questions

and very long.. but the attitude of bethesda is just awful. i hope they go bankrupt with that game...
 
I adore this part:
Eurogamer: How do you approach developing a game, especially one with the infamy of Fallout, when none of your team was involved in the original development?

Gavin Carter: We treated a lot like we treat our own. We went back and played the old games, so played a lot of Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, to see what we wanted to bring over from those games, and to get our minds away from this medieval space [that of the Elder Scrolls games]. And we watched movies like Mad Max, read books like The Road, and started from square one.
I doubt it seriously. Even if they did that, they didn't understand it. Also, nobody mentions the Fallout Bible (or the original design documents the bible is based upon), something that was really necessary to study thoroughly before keep working on such franchise.

But I guess it'll emerge in one of the next interviews, thanks to spies :paranoid: I can already hear one of the producers that they read it long time ago and they're on the "right track". Hmph.
 
Brother None said:
To be honest, the "we don't care about fans" isn't even the bit that bothers me most, personally.

It's the "we don't feel we owe the original designers anything." That is arrogant and insulting…They should feel honoured and privileged that…turning away Leonard Boyarsky, is just smack-in-your-face God complex/heavy case of narcissism….Hell, they probably honestly believe the game they're making is better than the originals. :barf:

Emil doesn’t necessarily believe they don’t owe anything to the fans or designers, but it comes across that way because he was set up by the question and isn’t the best politician. He can’t say yes, because then people will complain about their not getting more input and making radical changes, and can’t say no because that would be disrespectfully rude, as well as inconsistent with the idea of loving the original games. He could have said they just want to make the best possible game they could and leave it at that, but instead says 'can't' and launches off into the ‘doing their own thing’ routine as it has no doubt been hammered into the team countless times, probably by Todd as part of the strict authorial control that Gavin mentions. "When I first started I think did feel like that, and there was a period of coming to terms with it," shows his doubts. It is a case of trying to ignore conflicting ideas to do the job rather than not caring about them personally and emotionally. This sort of thing would also explain why they might not hire Leonard Boyarsky or the like, as ‘doesn't really get the culture here’ could equate to not going along with everything or liking what one is told and potentially providing an inordinately influencing alternative perspective. Yes, you can put that down to ego and power games, but it isn’t necessarily God complex arrogance, more like mortal fear of being challenged by quality ideas and threatening competition. They wouldn’t want to share the credit for their work with others much so again at least some ego and arrogance comes into it.

Fallout 3 is Bethesda's triumphant return to gunplay games, after swords and sorcery for so long. For me it's about bringing back /that/ legacy.

Ouch. To be really optimistic we would have to put this down to a brain fart. He could be thinking defensively about the differences between Fallout and Oblivion, rather than merely answering the given question diplomatically. Impulsively making the link back to the Terminator games to distance Fallout from Oblivion might reinforce the idea of a more realistic, modern setting, and impress management with some spin, but turns out to be a PR disaster among fans.

Why buy the license? Firstly because they like the setting, freedom and atmosphere of the game, even if they don’t really understand it.

Continuing on with ridiculous optimism, they could be trying to work on a sequel with some real depth in role-playing, even if they also put in lolzers mini games, gratuitous violence etc. Sure, many might want to sleep on piles of money with another blockbuster, but any real professional would care about doing something with real quality if possible, such that it would get unbiased critical acclaim as a classic to be proud of decades from now. Gaining even some positive recognition from a fan base like NMA would be a great feather in their cap.
 
quietfanatic said:
"When I first started I think did feel like that, and there was a period of coming to terms with it," shows his doubts.
Heh...
To me, it sounds like he had to fight his feeling of guilt for destroying Fallout.

Nology5890 said:
Well, as long as it wouldn't be called FO: BOS 2, or FO3, it'd be alright. :wink:
I think that it actually should be named Fo: BoS 2 :wink: .
 
Guilt is on the road to repentance and reform?

Good, neutral, evil is better than just black and white, but these labels still appear dangerously simplistic for moral ambiguity. If you have some sort of dilemma, the options are not likely, good, neutral, evil, but more likely a case of choosing between nasty mixtures of good and evil, otherwise it isn’t morally ambiguous.
Eurogamer: Does that relationship impact on the moral dimensions of the game?
Gavin Carter: To an extent. A large part of the game is spent with him absent, so a lot of stuff happens outside of that relationship. We wanted the relationship as a central point of the plot, so we don't want you to be able to say, piss off your dad and ruin the plot. To have a narrative you have to have some parts that are more strict.
It comes across that as your father is absent for a large part of the game, you wouldn’t be railroaded too much by his presence. As he is a ‘good guy’ with his own agenda, it would cause too much trouble for the narrative arc if he was hanging around to see your evil deeds, “we don't want you to be able to say, piss off your dad and ruin the plot,” so it is simpler to stop you from having contact with him.

I remember from somewhere that eating corpses was linked to a perk, so it is probably not a significant feature of the game, like with the number of people bitten counter in Oblivion, even if you aren’t a vampire.

The choice and consequence stuff sounds good, but of course it all depends on the implementation, as will the inanity associated with the level of over-the-top violence.
 
the "it is what it is" bit... i was a little shocked that he said that. and yeah it made me rather mad. how can you not feel like you owe something to the company that brought you the first two games that your spin-off sequel is based on. the way he answered that question, to me at least, was really rude.

it seems with every interview and article, they (beth) take one step forward (the dialog) and two steps back (everything else in the interview).
 
I don't find the "missing father" plot to be too much trouble. What would make it more interesting is when you finally do meet up with him again, if he acts differently towards you based on your actions/karma/reputation etc. Of course, something that in-depth might be asking too much.

And I don't mind the whole central narrative thing that needs to be intact. I like a game that gives me choice and consequence, but balances that with a good narrative which I can pursue as well. I just wish there was a way to have no unkillable NPCs. I hated that in Oblivion.
 
What annoys me the most is that they don't want to continue Fallout. They don't want to be the successors of Fallout. They want to replace Fallout. Because their vision is what it should've been all along!
At least until it's time for TES V. Then they'll forget all about it.

yevinorion said:
And I don't mind the whole central narrative thing that needs to be intact. I like a game that gives me choice and consequence, but balances that with a good narrative which I can pursue as well. I just wish there was a way to have no unkillable NPCs. I hated that in Oblivion.

If it's an unkillable NPC in terms of Overseer with the big guns then okay. But if it's just some guy who can get knocked unconscious by a minigun (or nucular catapult) 3565742 times and keep on ticking like in Oblivion.. ugh.
 
Sorrow said:
I didn't like the unkillable Overseer.
One of Fallout's biggest faults, IMO. It would be perfect if we could choose not to accept the mission, but get out of the vault anyway, then another vault dweller would be sent out, and then we would be able to interact with him and his mission. Maybe a bit of work, but it wouldn't be THAT difficult. The key point is, instead of GIVING the choices to the player, the game would have to make the player GUESS the choices. That is true role-play, I think... Arcanum had some moments like that, and I love it for that. (combat sucks)

offtopic already. Anyway, all in all, bethesda decided from the very beginning to pick the worst things from fallout and tes, mix them together, play with them and see what happens... kaboom!
 
I've noticed a lot of posters make numerous references to what they are calling "core game design" and what deviates from core game design. From what I've been reading, the following have been identified as core game design essentials by posters for a Fallout game, in not necessarily a priority order:

1. Turn based combat
2. 3rd person top down isometric view
3. Compliance of canon as dictated by the Fallout Bible (of which neither 1 nor 2 are 100% compliant)
4. 50's-ish sci-fi post nuclear Mad Max type environment
5. S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats and advancement system.
6. Open game play (2 had more than 1, because in 1, no water chip=game over)
7. Complete moral freedom up to and including child killing, with in game consequences for choices made.
8. Western US location
9. Weapons may be only pre-60's existing or pre-50's stylized sci-fi.
10. Mature Content like drugs, sexual matter and graphic violence.
11. Mutants are to look like The Hulk with acne
12. Complex dialog trees
13. Groin shots
14. Ron Perlman
15. Cut scene music to be pre-35' with spacey ambient tracks in game
16. Groin shots

So let’s say a new developer drops out of the sky and buys the franchise. What game elements of Fallout excluding the ones listed above would the developer be free to modify and develop to make the true spiritual successor of the Fallout series?


Another question that interests me, if this hypothetical company happened to be Troika Resurrected, should they be allowed the freedom to change any of the 16 items listed?
 
Bluto said:
I've noticed a lot of posters make numerous references to what they are calling "core game design" and what deviates from core game design. From what I've been reading, the following have been identified as core game design essentials by posters for a Fallout game, in not necessarily a priority order

I'm not sure if it's that easy to list "in order," because that's a matter of personal taste. Just read what the original devs wrote, it's their game.

Bluto said:
Another question that interests me, if this hypothetical company happened to be Troika Resurrected, should they be allowed the freedom to change any of the 16 items listed?

Sure. Thing is, they probably wouldn't. Note Boyarsky's remark on Fallout 3 here.
 
Your list is wrong, most of the items are not crucial to gameplay referred to as p&p tabletop rpg simulation. They help to establish consistency, though.

Turn-based combat, SPECIAL, an ISO-like perspective and choice and consequences are most important.
 
well, they could come up with a cool plot that fits the canon to a reasonable degree (nothing that is totally innacurate)

this plot could either be for a sequel, or a prequel.. I think a fallout that's set during the chaotic times at the start of the war would be interesting, although you'd know how it ended.

although, if you name it Fallout 3, it should probably be after the events of 2. (something to do with the fate of the expanded NCR, so it stayed in the west...)

in addition,

they could liven up the NPC party member interactions by expanding upon the pretty nifty system that was instituted in F2..

They could soup up the graphix and use a modern engine to make it look nice, but still isometric like the newest c&c.
(while actually making it retro-50's-scifi-inspired)

they could expand the game world to much greater size now that computers can handle it without insane loading times..

they could put in more NPCs instead of less..
I always thought the interaction with the NPCs was one of the coolest parts of the game.
even the lame ones that only had 5 lines of combat taunt style dialogue..

there's more, but I need to get back to work..
:P
 
Bluto said:
Well, as Karak said, there are some crucial elements. Then again, there are those of less importance, still spicy. And the spice was something that made the Fallout games so popular. Now, our dear old Beth tries to build a sequel based on the traces of that spice combined with their own lust for making money milking a wide range of unaware gaming population while making another TES clone.
 
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