Fallout 3 is The Force Awakens

@CT_Phipps
So what single theme that encompass most of Fallout 3 that is unique to Fallout 3? Sacrifice is really the only thing works here. Even the DLC was pushing for the sacrifice path while cheaply saving the Lone Wander's ass. When you avoid the pointless sacrifice, the game berates you by calling that companion the true hero.
 
Lucas9 said:
In my case, it's a matter of priorities. Bethesda wanted the player to join the BoS and have them be the good guys. The Outcasts don't really matter, because realistically, the Outcasts should have been the people sharing the Elder's ideas, not the opposite.
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I loved that story.

The Outcasts whine to the High Elder and what do they get?

"It doesn't matter if he sucks at his job, he's the Elder and it's your job to obey."

They also broke protocol in a exilable offense. The Brotherhood Chain means you cannot go over your superior's head. That's not how it works.

That there are Outcasts doesn't change the fact that it is ridiculous to think of a Brotherhood of Steel who dedicates their lives to helping the people of the wasteland. It's directly against what they should do. Personally I think it would have been very interesting to see in-fighting inside the BoS, and have the player decide who to team with.
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The Brotherhood of Steel is supposed to be helping humankind. They just don't because they're fallen away from their original ideals--probably because of what a shit leader Elder Lyons is. I've mentioned this on numerous occassions.

CaptJ said:
@CT_Phipps
So what single theme that encompass most of Fallout 3 that is unique to Fallout 3? Sacrifice is really the only thing works here. Even the DLC was pushing for the sacrifice path while cheaply saving the Lone Wander's ass. When you avoid the pointless sacrifice, the game berates you by calling that companion the true hero.
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Loss and Idealism.

Washington is a place which has suffered and all that remains is tombs to the Pre-War world. Bethesda may have overdone it but its focus on the Pre-War World works wonderfully in Fallout 3 as you're constantly shown the cost of the Nuclear War as well as what led to it.

Idealism also works as you are surrounded by people who have ideals they are fighting for and what they venerate be it Lincoln, Ghoul Supremacy, Human Supremacy, the BoS, Enclave, and so on.

I also think you could make an argument America and the conflict between its stated idealogy of freedom vs. the reality of oppression for many minorities is a theme. The 1950s work particularly well for that.
 
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CT Phipps said:
The Brotherhood of Steel is supposed to be helping humankind
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Yeah their core principle is that they need to take advanced technology away from common minds because of what happened with the nukes.

Since when did they give a flying fuck about helping people with water problems? This could've been handled when and developed by superior writers, but the state it's in in Fallout 3 is just pathetic.

CT Phipps said:
Idealism also works as you are surrounded by people who have ideals they are fighting for and what they venerate be it Lincoln, Ghoul Supremacy, Human Supremacy, the BoS, Enclave, and so on.
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Different people have different ideals? Fuck that's deep I'm outta here.

But this logic can be applied to nearly every single game with opposing ideas. That's quite a few games.
 
It may be a reintroduction but like many have pointed out with the Force Awakens, more should have been done.

New ideas, concepts, creatures and factions should have been brought in while following the ideas and themes of the series (though distancing itself from 2's wackiness, rather than embrace it as 3 and 4 did, would have been a good idea).
 
CT Phipps said:
I loved that story.

The Outcasts whine to the High Elder and what do they get?

"It doesn't matter if he sucks at his job, he's the Elder and it's your job to obey."

They also broke protocol in a exilable offense. The Brotherhood Chain means you cannot go over your superior's head. That's not how it works.
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Except you are mentioning New Vegas lore, not Fallout 3. You would be right in New Vegas, as Obsidian really thinks of these kind of things.

But in Fallout 3, the chain doesn't exist, and it doesn't make any sense for the Brotherhood to "deal with it" in regards to their Elder's decision. Moreover, it doesn't make sense for the Outcasts to just go "oh, it's cool, we'll leave". They should have tried to retake the Citadel by force.
 
Lucas9 said:
Except you are mentioning New Vegas lore, not Fallout 3. You would be right in New Vegas, as Obsidian really thinks of these kind of things.
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Yep, but military societies are also not exactly prone to breaking the chain of command IN GENERAL.

But in Fallout 3, the chain doesn't exist, and it doesn't make any sense for the Brotherhood to "deal with it" in regards to their Elder's decision. Moreover, it doesn't make sense for the Outcasts to just go "oh, it's cool, we'll leave". They should have tried to retake the Citadel by force.
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I find the act of desertion more believable than murdering the people they literally grew up with.
 
CaptJ said:
Isn't that the whole point of juxtaposition post-apocalypse and 1950's futurism in the Fallout setting? It isn't unique or especially prevalent in FO3.
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It would, in fact, be a very Fallout-esque pair of themes wouldn't it?

:)
 
CT Phipps said:
Yep, but military societies are also not exactly prone to breaking the chain of command IN GENERAL.



I find the act of desertion more believable than murdering the people they literally grew up with.
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If the Outcasts felt that Lyons was breaking the Codex, they would have been obligated to eliminate him rather than desert though. Look at the Brotherhood circa New Vegas, they definitely obey the Codex (some with a religious fervor).
 
CerberusGate said:
If the Outcasts felt that Lyons was breaking the Codex, they would have been obligated to eliminate him rather than desert though. Look at the Brotherhood circa New Vegas, they definitely obey the Codex (some with a religious fervor).
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They believed he was neglecting their mission and they, instead, dedicated themselves to the mission instead. That's a perfectly valid, albeit undramatic, way of fulfilling their duty. Albeit, they're still traitors who deserved to die for it.

We also get to see how the BOS Outcasts handle outsiders with technology in Operation: Anchorage. Really, literally, the ONLY good part of that game is the beginning and end.
 
AlphaSlayerZX said:
Define sarcastic.

Because I don't think Emil knows what it means.
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Sarcastic = "fuck you Kellogg cornflakes Imma kick yo ass"
Sarcastic = "fuck you, you stupid robot"
Sarcastic = "fuck you, you stupid mutant"
Sarcastic = "fuck you, you stupid human"
Sarcastic = "haha your brother just died in front of you haha oh man I literally cannot oh what a day first time in this baseball stadium since I was a frozen TV dinner and I witness a murder oh man woah I love this shanty town haha"
 
CT Phipps said:
Yep, but military societies are also not exactly prone to breaking the chain of command IN GENERAL.

The Broterhood just isn't any military society. They have one goal and one goal only: the preservation of technology from ignorant wastelanders. Anything that goes against it breaks their goal.

CT Phipps said:
I find the act of desertion more believable than murdering the people they literally grew up with.
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In any other scenario, I agree. But I think the Brotherhood knows very well not to let emotions get in the way. Else it basically means they dedicated their wholes lives to a cause, for nothing.
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CaptJ said:
You do know that I said unique to Fallout 3, right? It is sacrifice. The theme of Fallout 3's story is sacrifice.
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You could argue Nuka Cola is that or scavenging. Sorry, I just don't think it's a theme which really pops out.

American nostalgia also works I think.
 
CT Phipps said:
You could argue Nuka Cola is that or scavenging. Sorry, I just don't think it's a theme which really pops out.
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No because sacrifice is important to the main character because their father- who is their motivation sacrifices themselves for a greater good, and urges the player to save PP. They then take it upon themselves to finish what their father started, and as a way to help the wasteland. Then the epilogue talks about their sacrifice. Because it is a theme.
 
If the point of the father's death was for the main character to move on, then the ending would probably be more like this.
 
CaptJ said:
If the point of the father's death was for the main character to move on, then the ending would probably be more like this.
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LMAO
Realy, if there was a theme that was the one.
 
So what are everyone's favorite and least favorite elements of Fallout 3?

Favorite:

* The intro in Vault 101
* Seeing the Wasteland for the first time
* Moira Brown
* John Henry's broadcasts
* Tranquility Lane
* The Ant-Agonizer and Mechanist
* The Republic of Dave
* The terror of the DC Underground
* Wiping out Paradise Falls
* The Music
* Sarah Lyons
* The assault on Adams Air Force Base
* Liberty Prime and his death
* The Homefront mission

Least Favorite

* Little Lamplight
* The weakass original ending
* Colonel Autumn's accent
* Stupid Super Mutants
 
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