Fallout 3 pirated, videos spread

Wooz said:
whirlingdervish said:
mlk said:
Wooz said:
Oriental women in a vault, during a period the US was in... a... war with... China?

You are aware I'm sure of the several million asian-americans in the US.

Well lets see, we were not at war with Japan, Tiawan, South Korea, Indonesea, and a lot of other countries. so eh.



Do you recall where the united states detained a lot of them during WW2, regardless of their actual nationality, when the only people of asian descent that we were actually at war with were the Japanese?

:shock:

Yes. That's irrelevant to the point at hand:

Fallout's timeline is different than our own, based on the fifties' visions of the future, getting nuked. You'll notice that in every single "World of Tomorrow" illustration from the fifties, the protagonists are always tall, blonde and blue-eyed. If the rare cases they aren't, you'll see a tall, white guy with black hair. You'll never see a picture of the stereotypical white family living next door to blacks, asians, mexicans, italians, slavs or... or... anything, really, besides other white anglo-saxon protestants. The World of Tomorrow had no place for minorities, as illustrated in William Gibson's Gernsback Continuum short story. The mentality of people during the forties and fifties was pretty damn racist, make no mistake.

You know there were prisoner camps, (in California, no less) for asian-americans during WW2? Imprisoned there "just in case" they could be Japanese collaborators. They didn't really give a damn if the person was Korean or Kazakh, anyody looking reven emotely oriental was a suspect. Furthermore, the tragedy of hundreds of black soldiers coming home from the war against the epitome of racism, the nazis, were often killed on the way or even inside their home towns. Ironic, and to be honest, disgusting.

So, since the people who took shelter in Vaults were supposed to be the top-of the cream to rebuild the world in America's image after a nuclear war, it's pretty damn unlikely they'd allow someone with a Chinese surname inside.

War dissidents, you say. Maybe. Still, it's a bit odd and unconsistent with the mentality (which, by the way, led to nuclear war in the first place) upon which the series is based.

The war was over resources and oil. But don't forget there wasn't all-out war until the Great War, which only lasted 2 hours.

Yes, there was conflict in Alaska, but we don't know the full picture.

Yes, the mentality may have been there in the 50s, but there's also the Anti-Communist movement during the Cold War. The conflict with China largely resembles the Cold War and the Red Scare than any conflict before.

More than likely, people were calling people Communists and locked up anyone who fought that movement.
 
I pointed out that the Oriental woman was most likely not a chinese woman with a chinese surname. That is how it mattered.

All fine and dandy, but "Li" Is the most popular surname in China. Of course, there's always chances a guy whose surname is Kowalski is in fact a seven foot Masai. Possible today, this scenario is pretty unlikely for a world based on the American fifties' vision of the future.

The US government aren't made up of "john Doe's"

Yes and no, but that's not what we're discussing. One could argue that the US government reflects the opinion of John Doe, as it's a republic with representatives chosen to do so by John Doe.

Anyway:

it was the US gov who decided who would go to the concentration camps, not the average citizen

In Fallout's universe, the US government, which mirrors the one in the fifties, starts the Vault program.

Do you understand now?

I do agree that Chinese people wouldn't have been allowed in, but why wouldn't for example Koreans?

1) Because people in the Fallout pre-war world would be prejudiced against all Orientals, due to the war with China.

2) Fallout's mostly based on the fifties' visions of the future after a nuclear war. Surely, you must know what also happened in the Fifties.

The Korean war.

EDIT:

Yes, the mentality may have been there in the 50s, but there's also the Anti-Communist movement during the Cold War. The conflict with China largely resembles the Cold War and the Red Scare than any conflict before.

More than likely, people were calling people Communists and locked up anyone who fought that movement.

Of course. That said, I don't see how one thing excludes the other.
 
Brother None said:
Heh, you guys are missing quite possibly the worst line from all the footage shown so far.

The new Brotherhood of Steel greeting:
"Steel be with you"

SteelBeWithThee2.jpg
 
Wooz said:
In Fallout's universe, the US government, which mirrors the one in the fifties, starts the Vault program.

Do you understand now?

I'm not sure what it is you wish for me to understand. I know full well that the US gov starts the vault program.


Wooz said:
1) Because people in the Fallout pre-war world would be prejudiced against all Orientals, due to the war with China.

I really doubt this I'm sorry. Everyone wasn't prejudiced against the Japanese in the 40s, and a lot of them felt ashamed after the war. The social progress had evolved a great deal in the 50s. So even though Fallout's 2070 is the future of the 1950's america, I simply doubt they would have the prejudice of early 1940's. It's open for debate though. But I have never heard of any major open prejudice against all asian-americans during ww2.


Wooz said:
2) Fallout's mostly based on the fifties' visions of the future after a nuclear war. Surely, you must know what also happened in the Fifties.

The Korean war.

Yes? I'm well aware of the Korean war. What is your point with the Korean war though?
 
It is realistic to assume that Asians did not remain our sworn enemies, and in fact assimilated to some degree into polite society at some point during the 120 YEARS post WW2.

These videos do nothing to dissuade me from buying this game, I'm disappointed that the graphics/animations/voice acting have improved little if at all from Oblvion, but they're still a giant leap from the originals (well, I liked the animation better in the originals, but that's the charm of the sprite age for you).

I don't see a glaring discord in atmosphere, and it looks really fun to run around in.
 
The social progress had evolved a great deal in the 50s. So even though Fallout's 2070 is the future of the 1950's america, I simply doubt they would have the prejudice of early 1940's.

I'm sorry, I just can't thnk of anything to say.

But I have never heard of any major open prejudice against all asian-americans during ww2.

Oh, you mean besides the whole "concentration camp" thing?

Yes? I'm well aware of the Korean war. What is your point with the Korean war though?

Forget it.
 
So I saw there was a 911 terminal and on there is a chat transcript of a actual 911 call where a Old Lady is murdered.
 
Kilus said:
So I saw there was a 911 terminal and on there is a chat transcript of a actual 911 call where a Old Lady is murdered.

Ok......?

I'm missing something here. Please elaborate.


EDIT: somehow the Quote button reversed the name to "suliK"?
 
wooz--you point out the korean war--did the US lock up asians during the Korean war---no

so therefore, that defeats your argument right there. If the U.S. in the 50s didn't treat asians the same way as they did in WW2, then the idea that they would similarly react 100+ years in the future as they did in WW2 is flawed.
 
Mrxknown said:
suliK said:
So I saw there was a 911 terminal and on there is a chat transcript of a actual 911 call where a Old Lady is murdered.

Ok......?

I'm missing something here. Please elaborate.


EDIT: somehow the Quote button reversed the name to "suliK"?

Wav file of a actual 911 has been on the net forever. First the old lady talks about someone hanging around. It sounds like the lady is a wee bit paranoid. Till you here him break in and kill her. Now in one of the streams there was a 911 computer, this was in the police HQ and it had a transcript of that wav.
 
Wooz said:
I don't know, I've always thought the F2/FBible 'vaults as a social experiment' idea was something slapped-on as an afterthought.
Yeah, it's arguable whether or not it's really good. It's something that could really be ignored/retconed and it wouldn't have much of an effect.

Wooz said:
What's V101's purpose?
Control or possibly to measure the reaction of people forced to live in a limited living space with no chance to grow or change it.

mlk said:
You claimed that people with Chinese surnames wouldn't be in vaults, and you were also surprised that you saw an oriental woman in the vault. I pointed out that the Oriental woman was most likely not a chinese woman with a chinese surname. That is how it mattered.
Li is a Chinese surname.

mlk said:
I do agree that Chinese-Americans might not have been allowed in, but why wouldn't for example Koreans?
Racism. Can you visually tell the difference between say, Pygmies and Ati? There is a reason that people from different parts of the orient who have migrated to the US are all labled as Asian-Americans, most people (at least non-Asians as I know some that can) can't visually tell the difference between a Chinese-American, a Korean-American, and a Japanese-American. It's the same reason that Japanese-Americans were locked up and German-Americans weren't.

mlk said:
I really doubt this I'm sorry. Everyone wasn't prejudiced against the Japanese in the 40s, and a lot of them felt ashamed after the war. The social progress had evolved a great deal in the 50s. So even though Fallout's 2070 is the future of the 1950's america, I simply doubt they would have the prejudice of early 1940's. It's open for debate though. But I have never heard of any major open prejudice against all asian-americans during ww2.
Prejudice is still present, look at the number of people in the US who push for racial discrimination (particularly with airport security) against anyone who looked like they could be from the Middle East, especially right after 9-11. One of the US presidential candidates called Vietnamese gooks last year in a public speech. Now that's in today's world, not even in the 50's. Also note the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
 
K[b said:
[/b]ilus]
Wav file of a actual 911 has been on the net forever. First the old lady talks about someone hanging around. It sounds like the lady is a wee bit paranoid. Till you here him break in and kill her. Now in one of the streams there was a 911 computer, this was in the police HQ and it had a transcript of that wav.

Wow, Emil must really like the idea of old people getting murdered.

I mean seriously, what the hell?
 
You guys realize we got into a lengthy debate over a simple detail, right? Right. I don't know which is funnier, that or that apparently, some of you don't get the idea that Fallout's pre-war world isn'the one we're living in right now.

Texas Renegade said:
If the U.S. in the 50s didn't treat asians the same way as they did in WW2, then the idea that they would similarly react 100+ years in the future as they did in WW2 is flawed.

Brilliant.

Newsflash: There are options between "letting people into supersecret government programs" and "sending people to concentration camps".
 
Texas Renegade said:
wooz--you point out the korean war--did the US lock up asians during the Korean war---no

so therefore, that defeats your argument right there. If the U.S. in the 50s didn't treat asians the same way as they did in WW2, then the idea that they would similarly react 100+ years in the future as they did in WW2 is flawed.
Note that the Korean War wasn't against a nation who attacked the US or any other nation, it was a civil war. It's an entirely different situation just like the Vietnam War was a civil war and a different situation.

Wooz said:
You guys realize we got into a lengthy debate over a simple detail, right? Right.
Unfortunately par for the course, particularly unfortunate given the large amount of new info.
 
Wooz said:
The social progress had evolved a great deal in the 50s. So even though Fallout's 2070 is the future of the 1950's america, I simply doubt they would have the prejudice of early 1940's.

I'm sorry, I just can't thnk of anything to say.


Alright.

Wooz said:
Oh, you mean besides the whole "concentration camp" thing?

That was against Americans of Japanese descent NOT all orientals.

Wooz said:
Forget it.

Alright, since you didn't have a point I'll forget it. :)
 
Unspoiler alert!

Ok, so I decided to watch the leaked videos via youtube gameplay videos. And guess what O saw? Escaping the vault and the first 2 minutes of megaton. Guess what I have seen/read about for the last 3 months? The escape and megaton. There are some (very few) small (very small) surprises from inside the vault, not much new info at all, nothing that hasn't been talked about a bit here and a bit there.

So if you were contemplating on watching the videos or not, just go ahead and watch them. What I have heard is these are reviewers copies of the game and based on the "escape" and megaton videos I am tempted to say could be Bethesda approved plant, maybe. The actual copies of the game for download is obviously not approved. And I didn't see any of the live streaming feed from the illegal download.

I think the game looks and plays like I thought it would look and play. Should be a very fun and interesting game. Is it Fallout? Going to have to put a check mark by the definitely not box on that one. Half the time I forgot I was watching a Fallout sequel, just watching a game that I am looking forward to.

What doesn't make it Fallout? Besides how closely, when picking stuff up, it reminded me of Oblivion? I can't put my finger on it, most likely the being chased out of the vault instead of being the hero of the vault. Maybe in the end you will lead vault 101 into the world as a hero.
 
Most of the videos contain only the escape and Megaton because that's what you find at the start of the game and they have just started. The live streams contained much more stuff that we haven't seen or heard about, including much of Rivet City. And no, it's definitely not Bethesda-controlled leak. They're too paranoid for stuff like that.
 
Wooz said:
You guys realize we got into a lengthy debate over a simple detail, right? Right. I don't know which is funnier, that or that apparently, some of you don't get the idea that Fallout's pre-war world isn'the one we're living in right now.

This debate is based on your comment, which was (and remains) so strangely incongruous to logic that it could hardly be ignored. The reason it's gone on so long is because you're still arguing it, and to cede to your point would be an affront to rational thought.

Wooz said:
Newsflash: There are options between "letting people into supersecret government programs" and "sending people to concentration camps".

Newsflash: It's flat out ridiculous to argue that WW2-era anti-chinese sentiment would last for over 100 years and preclude allowing Asian-Americans into Vaults. Fallout's divergent timeline does nothing to support your ludicrous intimation.

Ausir said:
Most of the videos contain only the escape and Megaton because that's what you find at the start of the game and they have just started. The live streams contained much more stuff that we haven't seen or heard about, including much of Rivet City. And no, it's definitely not Bethesda-controlled leak. They're too paranoid for stuff like that.

I've only seen up to Megaton, I guess the juicy stuff was axed pretty quick.
 
There is too much junk to go through post by post. And since you saw the streaming video I was wandering a few things if you don't mind.

Probably no one got over 10 points on any 1 special stat, but do you know if getting over 10 does anything that 10 doesn't?

Did they find dogmeat?

Did they find someone to party with them? How was their AI?

Do you have a title like Vault Dweller or Chosen one? Or is it just "Player Name" as seen in "part 1" videos?

And most importantly after watching more into the game did you start to think, ya maybe this has a lot more Fallout feel than I thought it would?
 
GUYS! WWII Anti Nazi Anti Gang and Anti British (Belive it or not a large chunk of the US army AND Navy were openly Hostile to England as late as 1945 causing officers to be reassigned on the spot to the states or the pacific theater) sympanties did not prevent the US from working with indiviuals who were actualy member of the Nazi party, Italys Faschist party, or even the Scilian Mafia. (JE Hover had a hand in that from what is currently avalible) Hell Given how hard the US army worked its ass of to protect the Emperor of Japan from any Warcrimes guilt while sentancing to death someone who the evidence showed tried to stop the war from spreading since the first incidences in China in the 1920 the last thing that bothers me is seeing yet another bit of weirness in the mix
 
Back
Top