Fallout 4 announced with official trailer

[mef]

The only unexplainable thing about the ant lady and that robot guy is how does she control the ants.
It is still the dumbest thing in this shitty game.

 

[Marionettetc]

So if ant lady and robot guy had an explanation they'd be more acceptable?

They did have an explanation, it just wasn't satisfying or funny.

That whole scenario gave off a vibe of some amateur writer trying to ape the writing style of the original Fallout games, in an effort to be "wacky" and "off the wall" and to throwback to the satirized 40's-60's world of tomorrow that fallout always had underlying the setting.

It failed. It's a dumb fucking scenario with two characters that were unlikeable. The same story, written into Fallout1/2 would have been a parody along the lines of the "Tick", where as in 3 it was presented like "Kickass 2".

 

[The Doctor]

One of the (many) aseops in Fallout is that Humans are Bastards and I think every game captured that perfectly

Every faction in all four games has its bad eggs that want to see the whole world burn

Heck, depending on your character and interactions, even the player character falls under that heading

 

[Bernard Bumner's corpse]

Vault dwellers who were most likely well educated, had access to technology, and had the friendship of Shady Sands through the Vault Dweller decided to camp somewhere and regressed into naked savages in just a few generations. There's plenty wrong with that.

As the Wanderer wrote in his memoirs:

Together, our little group moved north, away from the Vault, and away from that old life. Slowly, I taught them what experience had taught me. And together we learned to thrive.

The tribal garb could (presumably) be an affectation - a symbol of the Wanderer's rejection of his jumpsuit.

Equally, there is no "regression" - Arroyo is a simple farming/hunting community, albeit with a strong religious/superstitious bent and an introspection or self-reliance that developed from isolation. This could, equally, be seen as a rejection of the old technology and the ways of the Vault. The community is doing well until a drought causes the crops to fail and animals to become sick. None of that seemed inconsistent or implausible to me.

Talking deathclaws are extremely retarded. The explanation for their existence is kind of dodgy, but what makes them truly horrible is that they did the noble savage thing with them. It's the cliche "see, if you give beasts intelligence, they're accepting and nice, humans suck waah" and it's been done too many times.

It is a cliche, but it is entirely consistent with the tone of plenty of pulp sci-fi. More to the point, it serves the same purpose as those earlier sources, by offering a slightly clumsy allegory about the state of humanity. It is a possible misstep, but a fairly minor one that doesn't really impinge on any major plot point. And it is one that (for instance) Avellone seems to acknowledge in the Bible:

BTW, the talking deathclaws were destroyed at the end of Fallout 2. Xarn and Goris did not go on to create a new species. They are gone. Kaput. Goodbye. In fact, any mutant animal that talks can safely be assumed to have died at the end at the exact minute that Fallout 2 was over. Any last words, talking animals? I thought not.

Even if, if those elements don't work well in abstraction, the quality of the writing would leave me better disposed to forgiving any weaknesses. Wackiness coupled with poor writing is much more annoying, particularly when it seems like a rather forced attempt to recapture the tone of the earlier game which itself had a much lighter touch.

 

[calajira]

Vault dwellers who were most likely well educated, had access to technology, and had the friendship of Shady Sands through the Vault Dweller decided to camp somewhere and regressed into naked savages in just a few generations. There's plenty wrong with that.

CROATOAN

 

[mef]

One of the (many) aseops in Fallout is that Humans are Bastards and I think every game captured that perfectly

By the way, I liked how ghouls were presented in Failout 3 - Gob was a humble ghoul harassed by racist Irish guy, whereas other ghouls took over Tenpenny Tower by force, despite other residents being friendly towards them. Ghouls were people, just like humans. The same goes for Fallout 1, but in Fallout 2 they were presented as saints oppressed by evil Vault City.

 

[calajira]

The same goes for Fallout 1, but in Fallout 2 they were presented as saints oppressed by evil Vault City.

They were? I remember them as massive dickheads (who had the misfortune of having even more massive dickheads as neighbors).

 

[Marionettetc]

One of the (many) aseops in Fallout is that Humans are Bastards and I think every game captured that perfectly

By the way, I liked how ghouls were presented in Failout 3 - Gob was a humble ghoul harassed by racist Irish guy, whereas other ghouls took over Tenpenny Tower by force, despite other residents being friendly towards them. Ghouls were people, just like humans. The same goes for Fallout 1, but in Fallout 2 they were presented as saints oppressed by evil Vault City.

To be fair, Vault City was oppressing Gecko.

I don't understand why they were "Saints"? They seemed like normal portrayals of people to me.

 

[peadar87]

The Mechanist could have been a really cool addition to Fallout 3 if he had been handled better.

Tragic character, loved one killed by the wasteland maybe, fancies himself the hero of Canterbury Commons, but in reality he is only bringing conflict to the town, and his penchant for spectacular battles instead of cleanly dispatching danger has resulted in a lot of collateral damage. He could even be held up as a contrast to the player character.

 

[Marionettetc]

Fallout 3 could have been a really cool addition to Fallout if it had been handled better.

Fixed that quote up for ya.

 

[Nas92]

As the Wanderer wrote in his memoirs:

Together, our little group moved north, away from the Vault, and away from that old life. Slowly, I taught them what experience had taught me. And together we learned to thrive.

The tribal garb could (presumably) be an affectation - a symbol of the Wanderer's rejection of his jumpsuit.

Equally, there is no "regression" - Arroyo is a simple farming/hunting community, albeit with a strong religious/superstitious bent and an introspection or self-reliance that developed from isolation. This could, equally, be seen as a rejection of the old technology and the ways of the Vault. The community is doing well until a drought causes the crops to fail and animals to become sick. None of that seemed inconsistent or implausible to me.

So they threw everything away in a wasteland and decided to live like barabrians because the VD hated the vault? Doesn't really change my mind. Also, let's not forget the main problem: that they even think like tribals, and acting as if they had been that for several centuries, when it was only a few generations. That's just insane.

The group of talking deathclaws you're referencing were exposed to the FEV in an attempt to make them controllable Bio weapons for the enclave.

How is that "kind of dodgy"? You readily accept the existence of Super Mutants being a normal human + FEV = the Hulk, but you have trouble believing that these huge creatures could be exposed to the same virus and develop the ability to speak? Or let alone that pre-war, it's very likely some proto form of the FEV was used to create Deathclaws along side genetic engineering. It's also my understanding, based on the conversations you have with the ones in vault 13 that a grand total of TWO (Gruthar, Goris) of them are "noble savages", and the rest simply falling in line with the Alpha. Even Xarn wants to destroy all he humans on the base if you choose a revenge route after releasing him. That's noble?

I'm sorry, but however I look at it, super mutants are not nearly as extreme as basically making animals sentient with a snap of your fingers. I know that you can look at super mutants the same way, but that shouldn't be an excuse to make even more "godlike" science. With this you could essentially justify every retarded thing, which is exactly what happened in Old World Blues, and I'm sure the same will happen in Fallout 4.
And yes, they talk like stereotypical noble savages, and they don't destroy you upon entering their hideout. Their leader even shows compassion to you if your character is low int. Yeah, that's idiotic, textbook "humans are evul" shit, that is very lazy.

 

[mef]

They were? I remember them as massive dickheads (who had the misfortune of having even more massive dickheads as neighbors).

I don't understand why they were "Saints"? They seemed like normal portrayals of people to me.

Yes, I exaggerated. Ghouls in F2 were also diverse and there weren't all nice guys (like Jeremy or what his name was), but what I had on my mind is - there is not much of their bad side presented in the game. After playing, F2 leaves an image of ghouls as good guys, who don't do anything wrong and are unreasonably hated by Vault City. Well, it's not easy not to sympathize with them, but they're not as human as in F1.

 

[Marionettetc]

They were? I remember them as massive dickheads (who had the misfortune of having even more massive dickheads as neighbors).

I don't understand why they were "Saints"? They seemed like normal portrayals of people to me.

Yes, I exaggerated. Ghouls in F2 were also diverse and there weren't all nice guys (like Jeremy or what his name was), but what I had on my mind is - there is not much of their bad side presented in the game. After playing, F2 leaves an image of ghouls as good guys, who don't do anything wrong and are unreasonably hated by Vault City. Well, it's not easy not to sympathize with them, but they're not as human as in F1.

I thought the whole point of the dialogue between you and lynette, and the power plant engineers/Harold were to make you understand that both sides were wrong? The ghouls disregarding other life and the humans being unreasonably xenophobic?

The ghouls were disregarding that their leaking plant could be killing humans, and the vault city humans - to them their only recourse was to obliterate their town/make them slaves/ conquer Gecko instead of trying to find a diplomatic resolution.

 

[Bernard Bumner's corpse]

So they threw everything away in a wasteland and decided to live like barabrians because the VD hated the vault? Doesn't really change my mind. Also, let's not forget the main problem: that they even think like tribals, and acting as if they had been that for several centuries, when it was only a few generations. That's just insane.

I can't really agree that they are living like barbarians - they are farmers, doing as well as other small communities, until the drought.

Small farming communities still exist in this modern age of metropolitan urbanisation. And many consciously reject the most obvious trappings of modernity.

The rapid establishment of a cultural identity is clearly tied to the cult of personality that has grown up around the Vault Dweller mythology. It is cultish, by that assessment. That also isn't without precedence in the real world. It may be relatively benign, and it mirrors New Age groups, rather than Mormonism or Scientology, but those organisations tell you that cultures and myths can be rapidly designed and adopted.

Most of the populations you meet in the game have established their own origin myths, and many take on more ancient identities.

(There are also obviously game design choices which are suited by using established archetypes as shorthand for culture.)

--------

 

[Marionettetc]

I'm sorry, but however I look at it, super mutants are not nearly as extreme as basically making animals sentient with a snap of your fingers. I know that you can look at super mutants the same way, but that shouldn't be an excuse to make even more "godlike" science. With this you could essentially justify every retarded thing, which is exactly what happened in Old World Blues, and I'm sure the same will happen in Fallout 4.
And yes, they talk like stereotypical noble savages, and they don't destroy you upon entering their hideout. Their leader even shows compassion to you if your character is low int. Yeah, that's idiotic, textbook "humans are evul" shit, that is very lazy.

I disagree 100%.

The FEV is an elemental part of Fallout's universe from the ground floor up.

The transformation from human to Super Mutant just from exposure to ninja turtle goo is a million times more believable than raising a creature's INT rating a few points up on the SPECIAL scale?

Dude, I get what you're trying to argue here, but it's just false. Deathclaws were bio-genetically engineered before the great war as super soldiers for the US military. I'm even going to be intellectually fair here and admit I don't know the timeline from being "dipped" = Hulk.

Just like I don't know the timeline from Deathclaw exposure of the FEV = Goris. For all we know, both procedures took generations of experimenting.

 

[FearMonkey]

Y'know Megadeth sampled Inkspots for their song "Set the World Afire" on their album So Far...So Good... So What. This album pre-dated Fallout by 9 years. So clearly Todd Howard is clearly missing the proper influence for having the Inkspots song in the original Fallout opening. So if he really understands Fallout, he needs to license a ton of Megadeth tracks in Fallout 4.

 

[Walpknut]

Ugh Megadeth, moar like Megasuck. Amrite?

 

[FearMonkey]

Ugh Megadeth, moar like Megasuck. Amrite?

I disagree. They promoted Inkspots music before it was made popular by Fallout. Clearly they are musical geniuses and prophets.

 

[Marionettetc]

 

[Atomkilla]

Their first four albums or so are p. good, the rest can be ignored for the most part. Latest work is shite.