Fallout 4 DLC revealed

Valve genuinely thought it was a community supportive idea, and when they realised it was the wrong approach, they apologised a lot. Thanks to companies like EA, apologies no longer seem geniune but rather to avoid losses, and Valve took a permanent PR hit.

I'm not sure what Bethesda were thinking with it, though.

Valve might be more or less genuine, considering the idea about paid mods came from Bethesda still i wouldn't call Valve innocent: they banned people for voicing critism then acknowledged the fact those people were right all along.

Back to Bethesda; i would never considered them as lesser evil. They simply couldn't afford to act like Ubisoft or EA because Bethesda can't get away with it like those two.

These are the same people who come up Horse Armor remember? Also i recall seeing some screenshots from DLCs even before the main game (oblivion) was released.

Due to backlash with Oblivion they didn't pull such lame moves during Fallout 3 or Skyrim but moment they got the chance thanks to Skyrim's success they come up with season pass and now they're even raising it's price. Not to forget there is still no G.E.C.K. on the horizon.
 
Well, about CD project and CD Red. They are still a relatively young company. So the guy that founded it, is proably still in charge and making sure they stay true to the values they set for them self. Let us see how things will be for them in the next few years.
 
History has shown us, things progressively get worse over time. CD Projekt will stray off the path of righteousness one day and they too will be scorned by those of the monocled persuasion. The cycle continues...

Now it will become acceptable for developers/publishers to raise the price of Season Pass DLC for no good reason with only, "saving the customers money and bringing you more content" in mind. Sure, they don't want to charge us more money for shit that should and could have been added from the start. Why would a corporation that wants your money try to get more money from you? They only have the fans best interests in mind. *nudge nudge wink wink*

I just read the comments at IGN about this garbage and lost 5 years off my life. Entitlement gets brought up a lot which is a crock of shit.

-5 sanity points.
 
Hehe, yeah, Toront. I remember all those people and Diablo 3 "They {Blizard} want to do something great for us!" ... Noohooo :/. They are big companies. They don't give a fuck about you, me or anyone really. They are not our buddies and we friends or we their "loyal fans".
They want our money. And lots of it. If they can make us happy while getting it? Great! They will do that. But if they have to decide between making us happy and getting our money, I have zero doubts they would chose the last option. Most companies would.
 
There is, on the extreme, the Timothy McVeigh approach, which would set a new precedent and, from how I see, go far beyond what the most fervent of online criticism could accomplish. That isa thought experiment, but could it unfortunately be the most impactful? Though I don't forsee such a thing ever happening, it is a 'what if' scenario I like to play with.
 
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Dying Light just did it too recently I believe.

Just so people don't get the wrong idea, Dying Light recently upgraded their game to include the expansion without extra cost. The developer and publisher, Techland (they self-published all indie-like) has been following in the lines that CD Projekt RED have been at many points - actually treating their fans like gamers and not open wallets. Good publishers are becoming increasingly common.

Well, about CD project and CD Red. They are still a relatively young company. So the guy that founded it, is proably still in charge and making sure they stay true to the values they set for them self. Let us see how things will be for them in the next few years.
History has shown us, things progressively get worse over time. CD Projekt will stray off the path of righteousness one day and they too will be scorned by those of the monocled persuasion. The cycle continues...

Damn, that seems remarkably pessimistic. I know all of you here at NMA are all about pattern recognition, but history has also shown us that there's always unexpected turns right around the corner. Is it really that hard to believe that things can get better in the future? That maybe, this "downfall" of the games industry is just a short, four to five decade stagnation period? Or are you all just that masochistic?

This problem with the games industry leads all the way into the entertainment industry, subsequently into politics, and finally, modern society, that's true. But you're all being so negative and gloomy about all of that, too! I see it in General Discussion all the time. You don't actually believe the corporate monetisation approach to all of society these days will continue to last decades into the future, do you? Are you sure you all haven't been wallowing in the shadows for too long?

Things get progressively better for everything. Just because there are a couple of bumps along the way doesn't mean everyone has to be such a downer about it. Believe what you want, but I choose to believe that the games industry is on a fast track to becoming good again. :nod:
 
We would need some examples for this "things can get better".
No one of us is saying that it's impossible. But look at EA, Blizzard, Interplay, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Rockstar games. When ever a developer and/or publishers goes "big" things start to change.
 
We would need some examples for this "things can get better".
No one of us is saying that it's impossible. But look at EA, Blizzard, Interplay, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Rockstar games. When ever a developer and/or publishers goes "big" things start to change.

Well, there's the entire rising culture of indie games, all the spiritual successors and sequels that are coming to life with Kickstarter. There's companies like Techland and CD Projekt RED. 2K Games in particular is one of the more supportive publishers I've seen so far - yet they're as big as all the other publishers, so that's a good sign. Their parent company's CEO, Strauss Zelnick, is significantly greater at pursuing quality control and taking longer development times to release higher quality games as opposed to the annual model (he states directly that he doesn't approve of that model) so whatever his intentions, if the results are good, I'll take it.

Plus, my point was that it's not just about the patterns and and the logic behind it all. There can always be sudden changes. Maybe one of the publishers we all loathe will push too far with prices and there will be overwhelming support shifted to the indie devs of these recent years. Maybe whatever next economic crash we get with the world again will change up the entire dynamic of the industry.

Either way, naive and fruitless as it is, I choose to stick with optimism, and I'm happy with that.
 
I think I have to clear up a misunderstanding.

We are talking about companies with a long history, like Blizzard, getting worse over time for their core fanbase. The old fans which supported and knew Blizzard from the first games they released.

Kickstarter projects, indie developers and companies like CD Red are all relatively new as far as game development goes. The question is, what kind of company will CD Red be in let us say 15 years from now. Paritucularly if they would grow tremendiously in size.
 
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Things do get better and then...they get worse. My point is that no matter how great you think a developer/publisher (insert something else here) might be, they will eventually fuck up enough (due to whatever reason whether it be interference from higher up, change in leadership, greed, etc.) to where they are perceived as the bad guys. Bethesda was once heralded as a pretty solid dungeon crawler/RPG developer due to Morrowind and a much lesser extent Daggerfall. We all know how things went from there. No one ever thought they were on the scale of Fallout 1, Planescape, or Baldur's Gate but they were good for what they were, until people suddenly started thinking the top quality cRPG's weren't as good as the now more appropriately titled hiking simulator/RPG hybrids.

The game industry is doing fairly well mostly due to the indie resurgence. As an aside, how do you think gaming would be doing WITHOUT Kickstarter and indies right now? Ponder that for a bit. There would be little to no mid-tier games. That niche is being almost toally filled by these indie studios. Shit has come full circle folks. We are (kinda) back to nerds creating games in basements with teams of 5 people.

Yet the AAA developers/publishers (think EA, Activision, Square Enix, Sega, Capcom, Konami, Ubisoft, Zenimax, etc) that are part of the problem are the ones fucking up. They strictly think of profit and easy money. They don't want to take risks on new games and out-of-the-box thinking. They have all screwed up in numerous ways, some trying to redeem themselves due to past faults.

After all any company that has been around for 20 years will have some dark points in it's history. Some of them are more careless than others. "Fuck Konami" is so prevalent that it almost goes without mentioning.

The corporate types running these companies want the game boiled down to a formula, like the generic jRPG's that are flooding out of Japan in mass. Design by committee. Problem is you can't have a businessman or woman create a work of art. They aren't looking at triggering a long lasting emotional response, they are looking for a way to trick you to give them money, consume, and move on to the next one. Open world games are quickly becoming the same thing over and over. Most open world games share a lot of things in common now which does appear on the surface to be lazy, but more likely is due to consumers still eating the shit up. Mark my words that the Bethesda "formula" will be replicated, done better, and Bethesda will have some serous competition. It has already happened to a lesser extent. Next go around will be a bloodbath.

AlphaOmegaSin raises some pretty good points about all of this. When is a gaming company beyond redemption?



This all has to do with developers using fanboy praise to get away with deceitful business practices. Why did Bethesda leave Survival mode (you know the real survival mode that New Vegas did right) out of the base game while also delaying the Creation Kit? Because they want the fans money and they knew they would thank them for allowing them to pay for content that could have been free with a little modder help. Bethesda has in a sense created their own worst enemy.

I have grown up watching once great companies like Konami and Capcom turn into evil versions of themselves. Capcom has managed to improve their failings recently but you have to admit that Street Fighter V is a loaded topic. More and more DLC dripping out a bit at a time, and then the inevitable Collector/Director/GOTY/Complete edition with a smidgen of new content to make the fans buy it again.

Season Passes have become so anti-consumer I am genuinely surprised some fans are happy about saving a few bucks (not really) when they are getting robbed at the same time. It seems like they are unaware that assholes like this are LYING TO GET YOU TO PRE-ORDER AND BUY THEIR SEASON PASS! BETTER ORDER NOW BEFORE YOU LOSE OUT ON THE SAVINGS! The oldest trick in the book.

The fact that only one of the DLC's Bethesda has coming out is actually a new landmass like 99% of the other DLC is pathetic. My feelings on this is they are attempting to expand, possibly stretched a bit thin, and they know they can get by with low tier content since people bought Fallout 4 and loved it.

DLC was pioneered by Bethesda according to most console users. Somehow they were given a free pass for horse armor, and the attempted paid mods fiasco, which is just a pre-cursor to the real fuck over that is looming over us. Is this the end of the world? Nope. It doesn't end it just rolls back around and goes on and on and on and on and on and...the cycle continues.
 
DLC was pioneered by Bethesda according to most console users. Somehow they were given a free pass for horse armor, and the attempted paid mods fiasco, which is just a pre-cursor to the real fuck over that is looming over us. Is this the end of the world? Nope. It doesn't end it just rolls back around and goes on and on and on and on and on and...the cycle continues.

I've always wondered about this. Was Bethesda really the first to pull off a paid add-on with minimal content? I'm not entirely sure on the history of the microtransactions and DLC trend, but if they were, one could say they inspired this whole mess that leads us to today's industry.

I think I have to clear up a misunderstanding.

We are talking about companies with a long history, like Blizzard, getting worse over time for their core fanbase. The old fans which supported and knew Blizzard from the first games they released.

Kickstarter projects, indie developers and companies like CD Red are all relatively new as far as game development goes. The question is, what kind of company will CD Red be in let us say 15 years from now. Paritucularly if they would grow tremendiously in size.

Guys, guys, look, I get what you're all saying. All I did was share my opinion, I already know everything you just said @TorontRayne. It's just that I refuse to believe that EA, Ubisoft, and all those other assorted corporations you just mentioned will be able to get away with this for four more decades, and until then I'm not going to change my mind because the alternative is fairly depressing.

It's not just about the patterns of business. What about all the other factors? Entering new generations in future years changing perceptions and mindsets towards the idea of prioritising auteurism over corporate culture? Economy is also a factor. I'm not going to further into what particular effects they could have simply because society is unpredictable. My point was, in my opinion, and there is literally no way you could convince me otherwise until I see it for myself, the games industry will not become worse than it already is. My only comment was that I found the attitudes of many on this site to be pessimistic. You can consider it realistic if you want, but I'll still consider it pessimistic.

I am not "misunderstanding" anything. I read through the entirety of that post and I found nothing in there I don't already know. Corporations deciding games based on business over artistic sense or even common sense, the anti-consumer manoeuvres in constant use by many of the publishers, the fanbases that just lap it up like good little dogs. The thing is, I do not care about those patterns, because I believe that the last forty years of the gaming industry just doesn't matter, because of how unpredictable the industry, or anything in the world that affects the industry, can get. So companies have decided to spend the last twenty years ripping everyone off while they stay blind, what if overnight people just realises that and these companies don't get away with it anymore? Not logically possible? That's my point! It doesn't have to be.

If you really think that this culture of video game corporations utilising deceit and dishonesty in favour of greed will continue on forever and ever and ever, feel free to continue thinking that way, but this line of thought is not for me. Call me blindly naive if you want, or even "part of the problem", but I consider it positivity and optimism, and that's that.
 
Well, why do you think a company like EA or Bethesda would ever change their tactic and attitude, as long they can make money with it? Why should they ever see the 30 million of gamers that buy their titles as anything but walking wallets.
 
Well, why do you think a company like EA or Bethesda would ever change their tactic and attitude, as long they can make money with it? Why should they ever see the 30 million of gamers that buy their titles as anything but walking wallets.

Urgh. No, it's not likely they'll change their corporate attitudes out of their own will. But, for the third time, it doesn't matter. Cultural change forces them to change, or maybe some massive economical shift forces them to shut down. There's countless numbers of random crap that could just jump in and change the gaming industry again. While it doesn't look like it's going to happen next year or the year after, I can see it happening at some point in the next decade. At least, that's just my belief.

Nothing suggests EA will change. Nothing suggests the gamers will stop buying everything they sell. So, I can understand that by logical conclusion, nothing will change. Unfortunately, no industry is as simple enough for us to deduce its future simply by using logic.

Let me ask you - @Crni Vuk, for how long do you think the games industry will stay as it is right now? Forever? I think that's rather impossible.
 
Alright, the thing is, this cultural change probably won't happen. At least I don't see it. Or it would be already here.
This guy pretty much explains the reasons why I think the culture won't change:


The other part, EA going down? Well. That one is a lot more likely in my opinion. If a massive economical shift is forcing EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard etc. to shut down, then it still doesn't solve the issue.
Corporate Behaviour. Interplay pretty much killed it self because of this. And? No one learned anything from it. So if they all go down, there is no garantue that it would lead to a massive change where suddenly things are getting better.
See, the thing is, actually if I am honest I don't want those big companies to go down. Well, not all of them. Because actually, I think they are needed. Just as much as the indie movement, the kick starters and nerds making their own little games. Because for the simple fact, that some projects, DO need millions of dollars to feel right. There has to be a place for those CoD games as well.
But many of the big publishers and developers are really crazy right now. And the gaming industry is so toxic as work environment, that you have to ask your self if people are actually insane for chosing it as their career.
 
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