Fallout 4 DLC revealed

TorontRayne said:
So you hope for some Utopian future? That is unbearably naive pal, sorry. :(

I'll put it this way. As long as money is involved shit will stay the same.
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Well, at least naive isn't depressed, so naive is fine by me. ;)

Besides, my usual routine is that if some company does something really stupid I just move on to find the news about the good games coming out. Positivity wins either way.

Crni Vuk said:
And the gaming industry is so toxic as work environment, that you have to ask your self if people are actually insane for chosing it as their career.
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Considering this the career I'm currently on the track for, I guess I'm remarkably insane in that regard too. :nod:

Man, my lack of bitterness is really clashing with the whole theme you've got going on here in NMA, isn't it? :lol:
 
We're all fucked anyway, Trump is popular, in three generations we will have to wear gas masks on the street, and on and on...
But you have to be a bit optimistic anyways, and hold on to your Hopes and Dreams!! :weeee::plays undertale again::gaaay:
 
It's the mentality, USA companies are all about capitalism, make the biggest profit with least effort. There are some European companies like that but there are still a lot that are "old fashioned" and put the customer satisfaction first over the biggest profit possible. Also European customers are different from USA ones, USA's are way more: Shiny stuff? Have my money! While European customers are all about how you're treated by the business.

Just different mentalities, that's all :bow:.
 
Personally I can't wait for something of an equivalent of the gaming crash of the 80's to happen again. I want to watch it all burn. Hell, with the budgets becoming so astronomically high and with the triple-a studios desperately trying to squeeze as much cash out of their consumers as possible with their shitty DLC, microtransaction and season pass methods it's clear that the triple-a formula is going to cave in on itself if it continues this way. So long as indie studios can use kickstarter and platforms like Steam or GOG I don't feel any worry about gaming as a whole. It's the triple-a studios that I don't care about at all and I long for them all to crash and burn. Phoenix. See what rise out of the ashes. Might be that if they have to sell off IP's to avoid bankcruptcy(?) then someone who gives a shit about the IP might pick it up.

I've given up hope on triple-a years ago. At this point I just want those bloated budgets to implode on them.
 
Bleh.
I have a big rant lined up but before I post it: What's the point of that article? I mean, what is the ultimate point of it all? Cause indie-pocalypse is stupid. So long as there is a platform there will be indie titles. Not every title is going to be successful, that's capitalism for you.

Seriously, I don't get the article. Can someone dumb its points down to me? Cause it just rambles on and on about statistics and how the top 500 are successful and anyone else is pretty much left in the dirt and how Unity and Unreal are going like "well gee, we've licensed like 2 million units of our engine to studios and it appears as it not everyone of them are successful" and I'm just sitting here flabbergasted. What the fuck are they expecting exactly? Not everyone will produce good games. Not everyone will amount to anything at all in the first place. Of course some titles will be widely successful and bank multi-millions a month.

I just... What's the point of it Izak, you clearly brought it up to make some point so what is it? I don't get it.

I mean, ok, look, to become a triple-a studio the likes of the ones we got now you need to come a long long way. To become an indie-developer all you need is a flash-game with ms-paint animations. Triple-a can crash and burn. Indies, can't, not to the same extent. The only thing that can burn is the platform they're on. And if that ever happens someone else will take the opportunity to launch their own platform and the world will keep on spinning. If an indie-company release a game and it is a flop then yeah, that sucks and all, but the budget they needed for it could be re-aquired(?). It's feasible that they could get a budget similar to the old one and produce a new game. If a triple-a studio is burning down then they can't just whip out dozens of millions out of nowhere. If they lose out on a shit-load of money then that could bring the whole thing down.

It's not the same thing.

So I don't get it. I've been sitting here for 40 minutes trying to wrap my head around the point of this article and I still got nothing.

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Re-reading it now it is clear that they are focusing on mobile games' indie-scene, I figured that they were talking about steam indies as well but they're not. Their primary concern is mobile games and they're somehow assuming that Steam is the same (it isn't). I don't care about that. If mobile games were to suddenly die out then I'm already so far removed from them that I wouldn't even notice. I'm talking about indie games for PC that might even end up getting ported over to console's. Mobile games to me are just greedy little rats that try to lure you into a world of addiction. Been there once, I ain't doing that ever again.

Even so, I don't see what it has to do with the 'real' gaming industry. (Mobile games are meant to be addictive cashcows, they're not real games to me)

[edit]

Yeah an indie-pocalypse could happen on the mobile games market. Most likely it will before anything even remotely similar happens to the triple-a console market. But like I said, I don't consider mobiles games or "apps" (I hate that term) to be real games so if they die out then I won't care either way. :shrug:
 
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Actually, I read a much better article about the same subject (but pertaining to the PC indie market) that was much more articulate and realistic in it's assumptions, I just couldn't be bothered to dig through a google search in order to find it. I should have probably read the article before linking it and now well I feel like a fucking idiot, sorry for wasting your time. :oops:
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Considering this the career I'm currently on the track for, I guess I'm remarkably insane in that regard too. :nod:

Man, my lack of bitterness is really clashing with the whole theme you've got going on here in NMA, isn't it? :lol:
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More like naive, maybe. The thing is, it's almost the same in every creative business. No matter if graphic design, game development, music or special effects/movies. People see the ones that create this incredible designs and music, watching the awesome movies, and believe this would be some kind of standard. And you often hear from people that want to work in those industries, hey! I don't care so much about money, I want to do what I love! And I don't mind working all the time, because I am not doing a job anymore!.
And the sad part is, those industries do EVERYTHING to keep that idea. For obvious reasons. I am not telling you what to do, really, if you feel this is your one and true passion, go for it. But don't fall in to that romantic idea that so many have about design jobs. Like, that you're telling stories and selling ideas. Because often enough, it really is just soul crushing work. And maybe 10 or 20% of what you think is great, is ACTUALLY the stuff you will do.

I just think you should know what you're geting your self in to. That's all I am saying. And the reality is, that many game designers actually stop to work in their buisness after a couple of years to chose a more secure work with better conditions. Simply because it is such a sick and inhuman environment. For those which are on the lower end of the food chain. At some point I wanted to get in to it as well, but I pretty much gave up on it. Not only is it very expensive (as far as the education goes), but it is also a very unsteady branch and with very small benefits. Once you're getting into your 30s you have to ask your self if you want to continue in a job where your company could close down or terminate your contract at any point. Pretty awesome for family planing too if you're spending 10 or 11 hours on your job. Friends? Family? Forget about that. And this is sadly the standard for many creative jobs.
Yeah, maybe, you might end up as one of the lucky guys that will work for Rockstar or Bethesda, companies that will keep you employed for 20+ years. One of the high profile companies out there. But it is much more likely that you will end up with one of the smaller developers, probably as freelancer or hired from project to project. Working constantly in cruch time - this is even true for Bethesda, and with only your passion as motivation. And if it happens that you work on those shitty apps and mobile games and MMOs poping up around ever corner, which have to be thrown out every 3-6 months? You might ask your self how you even ended up there in the first place.

And like I said, this is NOT unique to gaming. It is an ongoing issue in almost ALL creative jobs.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
I just think you should know what you're geting your self in to. That's all I am saying.

And like I said, this is NOT unique to gaming. It is an ongoing issue in almost ALL creative jobs.
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Yes, I do know all of this, and I'm going positively forward with it anyways, naive as it is.

Though I have to ask, don't you ever feel like it's depressing for you to just assume the next twenty years of gaming will go on exactly like the last twenty years? Is there any optimism you have about it at all, or are you satisfied with being "realistic" about this?

Like I said, I'm a proven believer that unexpected things happen all the time. Common sense doesn't really run into it much, but at least I feel like it's a good way to go about with life. Besides, I'm hard to disappoint, and a "go with it no matter what happens" kind of person, so there's that, too.
Crni Vuk said:
maybe, you might end up as one of the lucky guys that will work for Rockstar or Bethesda, companies that will keep you employed for 20+ years.
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I'm not expecting to have secure employment in this line of work, and this goes into the realm of unlikely occurences, but this was my original point: whose to say Rockstar or Bethesda will still exist by the time I actually have enough experience to work in the AAA industry?

I'm not expecting magical fun times in designing games like art (I don't think anyone does anymore) and I'm not expecting every company to impossibly become good again. It just doesn't seem plausible to me that the industry will stay exactly the same for everyone involved for the indefinite future.
 
It isn't depressing in the least bit to accept reality. You keep saying that, but at least from my perspective, I am indifferent to it. I mean you can be hopeful and still accept reality. I hope for the best, but expect the worst.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
I'm not expecting magical fun times in designing games like art (I don't think anyone does anymore) and I'm not expecting every company to impossibly become good again.
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You would be surprised how many people still have this glorified idea in their head about design jobs and creative work. Where they think graphic design is all about drawing and game design about nothing else but ideas. How many games are so bad and their concepts would sell millions, if only someone would give them a job/chance.
 
Yeah, I also kind of fell for that trap, really wanting to get into this industry because I really want to follow my dream and make stuff I like and I hope others will like.
But over the years I learned about the darker side behind the whole game industry and creative industry in general. I knew it wouldn't be all fun and games but when I read some of the interviews and personal recounts... damn it is depressing.

I still want to make games one day just as I want to make other creative stuff, but I rather do it with friends and fellow enthusiasts on a bare or non existing budget in my free time, while having a well paying regular job which I know I can keep bare very unforeseen economic circumstances.

The industry has changed quite a lot since it 'matured'. Like Hollywood it is about millions and billions now and the suits have found their niche in it, running the show.

I don't think the current model can sustain itself though, it has become bloated and to big for its bridges.
Like with the major AAA movies it only takes a few disastrous investments now before it comes biting the development studio and the publisher in the ass.
Hence why the major focus groups for games are as broad as possible, the publishers need to make that investment back. But on top of that they also want to make major profits.

But the audience they go for is in general fickle, it is always looking for the latest entertainment but doesn't always know what it really wants. Hence why they always follow a handful of 'leaders', going from one 'latest biggest thing of the moment' to the other.

Despite what the economists say the economic crisis is still alive and well and the next bubble is already inflating to the point that it will burst.
Once that goes I wonder how much extra spending money the general public will have for entertainment after the essentials are met.
 
TorontRayne said:
It isn't depressing in the least bit to accept reality. You keep saying that, but at least from my perspective, I am indifferent to it. I mean you can be hopeful and still accept reality. I hope for the best, but expect the worst.
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I did put "realistic" in quotes, I have no problem with accepting reality. I was implying that these logical predictions you make that the industry will not change are not "realistic" - you're just taking the patterns of history and applying a little bit of logic here and there. The problem is, you can't calculate the future.

Also, you're not going to convince me that there's not at least a slight air of negativity in this forum. Maybe not depression but the attitude around here is definitely not "hopeful".

Crni Vuk said:
You would be surprised how many people still have this glorified idea in their head about design jobs and creative work. Where they think graphic design is all about drawing and game design about nothing else but ideas. How many games are so bad and their concepts would sell millions, if only someone would give them a job/chance.
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I would not be surprised. In fact, I've found more of those kind of people right here in this forum than I've met in real life.

Are you still trying to sell to me the idea that the games industry is permanently down the drain and that going into it is a bad idea? Why are we still even on about this? How about we just file away this particular debate? My theory can't be proven until we see the future for ourselves anyways, so what's the point?
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Also, you're not going to convince me that there's not at least a slight air of negativity in this forum. Maybe not depression but the attitude around here is definitely not "hopeful".
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I was speaking of myself.
 
ZigzagPX4 said:
Are you still trying to sell to me the idea that the games industry is permanently down the drain and that going into it is a bad idea? Why are we still even on about this? How about we just file away this particular debate? My theory can't be proven until we see the future for ourselves anyways, so what's the point?
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I am saying that it's close to insanity to chose a career in gaming RIGHT NOW. Of course I have no clue what it will be like in 10, 15 or 50 years from now. But can you live from what might or might not happen in 10 years? Would you make choices for the future also depend on winning the lottery as well? I mean I also have no clue if you're going to winn the lottery either, if you're buying a ticket right now. Just saying.
Look, I told you already, if gaming is your passion, if that is what you really want to do as job. Go for it! There are people who made it. So it is possible after all to be succesfull. But the number of people that simply quit, is staggering.
It is a form of entertainment industry, not unlike music and movies. And those have the habit of being soul crushing. And you want to know why I think it won't change anytime soon? What do you think how many hard working actors and musicians ended up serving in restaurants, or other low paid jobs, simply because Hollywood is such a shitty business. And this hasn't really changed for the last no clue, never? It was always extremely tough to achieve a steady income here.

The Dorklyst: 7 Reasons You Don't Want To Work in the Video Game Industry

It's a bit exagerated, but I am surprised how accurate it actually is even for graphic design. I just think you should not concentrate solely on gaming as a future. Look out for alternatives as well.
 
Yes, I am entirely aware of all those reasons. Honestly, the entertainment industry feels like the only thing I could ever be satisfied with working in. Even if not games, the only other jobs I imagine I could work in would be movies and music, as part of the crew. I would say that a secure job has never been one of my requirements for life, but that would be a risky assumption as I've never actually had a job that wasn't secure.

Of course I would always look out for alternatives, most jobs in the game industry have qualifications that would be suited to several other, more stable jobs. But I would say I'm privileged enough to have many fallback options for occupations in my future, so it's not much of a concern for me.

Maybe you can ask me again in ten years after I've delved into my career path if I'm still enjoying it and whether it was worth it, but for now it's mostly pointless. Everything else is really just assumptions and I feel it would be naive to try and predict the future. I'll just go along with whatever happens. Now I think we've ran this thread's topic off-rails enough.
 
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