Fallout 4: Does anyone else find the pre-war opening contrived?

[fred2]

That the point, you don't know why he left. You are removed from the only place you have ever known, your father is the only person you know, and who hold answers. Most people will seek that anchor. In comparison in FO2 there is FAR less compelling reason to care about your backward tribal community, much less so after seeing the big world and all it holds.

I don't find too compelling knowing why he left either. The important thing here is the following: he knew the deal with the Vault, and chose to leave me. Not worth it, he can be deathclaw food for all I care. I am more likely to care for Amata, as stupid as the character was, at least she shows any interest in my survival. Same for all I can guess about the tribe.

And that is fine, I am not saying that it was great, only that fallout 2 provided far less reasons to care about the mission.(this was used to contrast the OP populism) Btw, I bet that the reason why so many of us remember FO2 fondly is because it used the teenage fantasy trope: orphan, trained from birth you are the chosen one, the villages only hope. Sent on a quest for the holy grail to save your people... and the eventually the world! - you even get to fight the black knight

 

[Oppen]

That the point, you don't know why he left. You are removed from the only place you have ever known, your father is the only person you know, and who hold answers. Most people will seek that anchor. In comparison in FO2 there is FAR less compelling reason to care about your backward tribal community, much less so after seeing the big world and all it holds.

I don't find too compelling knowing why he left either. The important thing here is the following: he knew the deal with the Vault, and chose to leave me. Not worth it, he can be deathclaw food for all I care. I am more likely to care for Amata, as stupid as the character was, at least she shows any interest in my survival. Same for all I can guess about the tribe.

And that is fine, I am not saying that it was great, only that fallout 2 provided far less reasons to care about the mission.(this was used to contrast the OP populism) Btw, I bet that the reason why so many of us remember FO2 fondly is because it used the teenage fantasy trope: orphan, trained from birth you are the chosen one, the villages only hope. Sent on a quest for the holy grail to save your people... and the eventually the world! - you even get to fight the black knight

I don't know where did you get the whole trained from birth and orphan parts from. I usually don't like the whole "chosen one" tropes that much, actually. In that aspect I prefer both the RP (because it makes it clear that you really aren't a "chosen one" as in any kind of "this is your fate" quest, but just the second one to draw the shortest straw) and Fallout 1 (because of the same thing, you are the only hope... after the at least two that came before you...).

 

[fred2]

An "Orphan" aka Conveniently has no ties to the past, is a conjuncture on my part, based on the fact that only your mother is mentioned and neither of the parents(/friends/lovers) are in the picture to set you off on your journey. The rest is from the http://falloutwiki.com/Chosen One

Also I much preferred FO1 intro over FO2s, and the ending ohh my.. don't get me started on that !

 

[ComeAndBlowMyMind]

It seems bad Really bad so far. HOWEVER
It can give us more of an insight into the Pre war What it was like and such.
I find that very interesting

 

[fred2]

I think "showing the pre-war Fallout world" (unless it's like a holotape as a newsreel) is a mistake. Not only is that literally the least interesting thing about Fallout (it's only interesting in explaining how the much more interesting post-apocalypse world came to be)

Did you know that Interplay's Fallout 3 had a tutorial sequence called "After the Bombs Fall: Moving into Your New Vault". In which the bombs feel and you thought shelter in the vault?

 

[Gizmojunk]

I think "showing the pre-war Fallout world" (unless it's like a holotape as a newsreel) is a mistake. Not only is that literally the least interesting thing about Fallout (it's only interesting in explaining how the much more interesting post-apocalypse world came to be)

Did you know that Interplay's Fallout 3 had a tutorial sequence called "After the Bombs Fall: Moving into Your New Vault". In which the bombs feel and you thought shelter in the vault?

Wow; lame as the Temple of Trials. The Fallout series (as a whole) has for the most part declined further with every subsequent game in it.

Wasn't the Temple of Trials a forced feature? [Interplay having demanded a tutorial?]

 

[Oppen]

I think "showing the pre-war Fallout world" (unless it's like a holotape as a newsreel) is a mistake. Not only is that literally the least interesting thing about Fallout (it's only interesting in explaining how the much more interesting post-apocalypse world came to be)

Did you know that Interplay's Fallout 3 had a tutorial sequence called "After the Bombs Fall: Moving into Your New Vault". In which the bombs feel and you thought shelter in the vault?

Glad it didn't make it to the final version of Interplay's Fallout 3

 

[Walpknut]

Fallout 1 and New Vegas did it best, you are given an introductory cutscene of the setting ,you choose your skills, stats and traits then they just throw you into the game. In both of them you have an initial goal but you aren't forced to being the descendant of anyone important nor the chosen one of anything. New Vegas even has some knick knacks to do skill checks on like the broken 9mm smg, the chemistry set and dialogue options with Doc Mitchell to get some extra goodies at the start. That's how they should do it.

 

[fred2]

Did you know that Interplay's Fallout 3 had a tutorial sequence called "After the Bombs Fall: Moving into Your New Vault". In which the bombs feel and you thought shelter in the vault?

Glad it didn't make it to the final version of Interplay's Fallout 3

Ironically, that is exactly what I was hinting at. That plans for Van Burnen intro sequence ("After the Bombs Fall: Moving into Your New Vault") were used in Fallout 3 (life inside the Vault) and Fallout 4 (when the bombs start falling)

Fallout 1 and New Vegas did it best, you are given an introductory cutscene of the setting ,you choose your skills, stats and traits then they just throw you into the game. In both of them you have an initial goal but you aren't forced to being the descendant of anyone important nor the chosen one of anything. New Vegas even has some knick knacks to do skill checks on like the broken 9mm smg, the chemistry set and dialogue options with Doc Mitchell to get some extra goodies at the start. That's how they should do it.

Yes and no. I think that most people hate tutorials. By incorporating the tutorial into the game, New Vegas managed to make the briefest character creation sequence followed by a seamless and optional tutorial. It might not be the best tutorial for those who needed, but it was the best intro to me.

Also for a person who has been eagerly awaiting to see how the events of the original unfold, New Vegas amnesia scenario was the least imposing, it offered a pinch of mystery and whole new frontier at our fee, IMO it was perfect anything more would only detract from years of build up.

With that said, I still think that Fallout 3 and fallout 4 intros were the best choice for bethasda and much better for the series. Also I am pretty certain that FO4 intro will be optional as well, either though skyrim method or some other.

 

[Oppen]

Did you know that Interplay's Fallout 3 had a tutorial sequence called "After the Bombs Fall: Moving into Your New Vault". In which the bombs feel and you thought shelter in the vault?

Glad it didn't make it to the final version of Interplay's Fallout 3

Ironically, that is exactly what I was hinting at. That plans for Van Burnen intro sequence ("After the Bombs Fall: Moving into Your New Vault") were used in Fallout 3 (life inside the Vault) and Fallout 4 (when the bombs start falling)

I understood you, but I think you missed the joke: it didn't make it to the final version of *Interplay's* Fallout 3, because there was none :p

 

[Walpknut]

New Vegas has no amnesia scenario.... Unless you roleplay like that and ignore all the text that specifically states you aren't suffering from amnesia.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

New Vegas has no amnesia scenario.... Unless you roleplay like that and ignore all the text that specifically states you aren't suffering from amnesia.

I think it's somewhat canonical that the Courier does start with some sort of brain damage as a result of being shot in the head. The Courier is stated as having been at the Courier gig for a while, yet you start out the game at level 1 with minimum ranks in all your skills, which is unrealistic for an experienced wanderer of the wastes. So I think that's the real side effect of the brain damage. How much your memory is affected is up to the player though, you are completely correct.

 

[Walpknut]

Uhmm no it's not canonical. Also yo ustart at level 1 with no level up perks because it's an rpg and starting it at level 20 with all the skills maxed out would be kind of weird... Not to mention boring.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

Uhmm no it's not canonical. Also yo ustart at level 1 with no level up perks because it's an rpg and starting it at level 20 with all the skills maxed out would be kind of weird... Not to mention boring.

But the Courier ought to have some level of experience as a result of her backstory. You don't do all that stuff Ulysses talks about with the Divide in LR as a level 1 character with no skills.

I'm not saying "you should start at level 20" but starting at level 5 would have been appropriate if you didn't have the brain damage scenario (everybody's played P&P RPGs where the GM starts you out somewhat experienced, right?) But the fact that you were literally shot in the head justifies stripping you of all your XP and skills, as you need to regain them (just like people have to relearn stuff all the time after traumatic injuries.)

 

[Oppen]

Being an RPG doesn't take the responsibility of explaining the story away. If you get an experienced courier who wandered the wastes a lot and it's unskilled, you gotta wonder how is it that he survived for that long. Brain damage is a nice explanation. Being sheltered, which applies to Fallout 1 to 3 to some extent, is another valid explanation to an unskilled character.

 

[Walpknut]

You tag skills and get traits. I don0t know, I never have much problem with starting the game at level 1, it's just one of the idiosincracies about RPGs. I even dislike that Deus Ex Human revolution starts you out with pre upgraded things.


I mean "level 1" doesn't really mean anything in terms of story, it's an abstraction for how much progress THE PLAYER has made. If you start at level 5 then are those other 4 levels? Wouldn't then Level 5 actually become Level 1 then? What would be the point of making it 5 if it's the starting point for the player to start playing?

 

[fred2]

New Vegas has no amnesia scenario....

I'd think that after the discussion last week you'd know what it means, but you choose to take it very literally... Here is a reminder for your amnesia : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIQ6yWptvfA

 

[PossibleCabbage]

The Courier does not necessarily have amnesia.

The Courier does, however, have brain damage which might have lead to amnesia depending on how you choose to roleplay. That you have brain damage is evident from "you got shot in the head in the intro" and is explicitly mentioned in Old Wold Blues (where the reason you don't end up like the other Lobotomites is that the Autodoc had to correct for the damage done to your brain by Benny's 9mm bullet.) That you have brain damage of some kind is a convenient narrative justification both for amnesia (if you choose to play it that way) and for how you start off the game not being good at anything at all. The whole "something traumatic happens to you, and that's why you're level 1 despite your backstory" is basically an RPG trope.

 

[Walpknut]

New Vegas has no amnesia scenario....

I'd think that after the discussion last week you'd know what it means, but you choose to take it very literally... Here is a reminder for your amnesia : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIQ6yWptvfA

Oh yeah that video which contains an incredible amount of incorrect information. What about it? It has already been discussed and tored down here, that video is dumb.

The Courier does not necessarily have amnesia.

The Courier does, however, have brain damage which might have lead to amnesia depending on how you choose to roleplay. That you have brain damage is evident from "you got shot in the head in the intro" and is explicitly mentioned in Old Wold Blues (where the reason you don't end up like the other Lobotomites is that the Autodoc had to correct for the damage done to your brain by Benny's 9mm bullet.) That you have brain damage of some kind is a convenient narrative justification both for amnesia (if you choose to play it that way) and for how you start off the game not being good at anything at all. The whole "something traumatic happens to you, and that's why you're level 1 despite your backstory" is basically an RPG trope.

If it needs a jsutification I think spending 2 weeks in a bed recovering from surgery is a better justification than brain damage.

 

[fred2]

Regardless of your opinion, that discussion and video should have given you a hint as to what is meant by the amnesia scenario..