Fallout 4 is not "Skyrim with guns."

[MercenarySnake]

I'm not sure how else the Gunners could've been named. Gunner Private Militia? Gunner Solutions? Gunner Company? Commonwealth Military Solutions? They're basically post-apocalyptic PMCs.
The Triggermen, though, could've been the Malone Family. The raiders in Fallout 4 had so much backstory themselves they could've been seperated into specific gangs.

Wasted Potential: The Game.

Talon Company was a better name already, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know, Blackstone Solutions, or something PMC-sounding.

MacCready says that they're animals who shoot everyone who gets in their way... But in reality they just shoot everyone, period. The Talon Company was at least hired to kill you if you were too much of a good guy, but the Gunners are just lame. I agree, they're just Smegma Crazies, only that they're not really former military personnel.

Well, so do you! You're an animal who shoots everyone that gets in your way, and you don't even get a say about it! Was this some elaborate attempt at self-criticizing irony, I wonder?

That's true. I'd love to play peacefully, but despite the Toddler's desire to answer "Yes" to every "Can I..." question, the answer to "Can I win by not killing everyone?" remains "Nope. Here, have a naval cannon!"
But to be fair, I only shoot what gets in my way, not absolutely everyone in my sight.

Chances are they'll run into your bullets anyways, it's not that hard considering their AI.

 

[Khannis]

The entire game is self-criticising irony. M'aiq the Liar shows how self-aware of their own mistakes Bethesda are. It's the most annoying thing - when creators make fun of their own shortcomings but make no effort to improve on them. Why bother winking the audience in the first place then? I wouldn't be surprised if the next game featured a terminal about "some Vault Dweller who kept doing the same jobs again and again, who has boring friends" or "there's this holotape game company who keeps making repetitive stuff, why do they even try", or even "the old fans of this radio show just keep complaining, who cares? We're making money from the bigger crowd".

Exactly, and I really, truly don't get it. Are they ashamed? Pete Hines doesn't seem to think so. Do they have an internal faction of rebels that actually CARE? What the fuck is going on?

 

[Hassknecht]

I'm not sure how else the Gunners could've been named. Gunner Private Militia? Gunner Solutions? Gunner Company? Commonwealth Military Solutions? They're basically post-apocalyptic PMCs.
The Triggermen, though, could've been the Malone Family. The raiders in Fallout 4 had so much backstory themselves they could've been seperated into specific gangs.

Wasted Potential: The Game.

Talon Company was a better name already, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know, Blackstone Solutions, or something PMC-sounding.

MacCready says that they're animals who shoot everyone who gets in their way... But in reality they just shoot everyone, period. The Talon Company was at least hired to kill you if you were too much of a good guy, but the Gunners are just lame. I agree, they're just Smegma Crazies, only that they're not really former military personnel.

Well, so do you! You're an animal who shoots everyone that gets in your way, and you don't even get a say about it! Was this some elaborate attempt at self-criticizing irony, I wonder?

Fallout 4 was forcefed canned irony, all throughout. You lose your baby at the start and instantly meet Jun and Marcy Long after leaving the Vault, who also lost their child. Father has cancer even though he wasn't exposed to radiation while no one else has cancer even though they're always exposed to radiation. Kellogg also lost his family and became a hired killer, SOUND FAMILIAR? All the Raiders that don't detect you have fun little stories of their own and sympathetic backstories. FEEL BAD ABOUT IT, YOU ARE THE MURDERER (even though they're raiders). Those big guys who call themselves the Brotherhood of Steel, I worked in their predecessor (unless you were the female SS). And then there's the ton of failed irony on the subject of synths, people being synths, hating synths, loving synths and synths synths synths. Maybe the guy who hate synths is a synth? There's a guy who thinks feral ghouls are sentient. He works for the Brotherhood.

Spoiler

Paladin Danse was a synth - best example of this. SO IRONIC. "Commies" portrayed as bad, you meet someone from the Chinese Navy in a submarine and they're shown to be all nice. Deathclaw Mother and her egg quest - ANIMALS HAVE LIVES TOO! There's a terminal about how Vault-Tec employees didn't know Vault-Tec was experimenting on people's psych and not saving them. Mama Murphy says her chems fuelling her future Sight saved her life. If you keep giving chems to her, she dies. SYNTHS ARE PEOPLE TOO! Glory doesn't see "the light" when she dies. SO SMART, WHAT A REFLECTION ON THE MEANING OF LIFE AND OUR EXISTENCE.

The entire game is self-criticising irony. M'aiq the Liar shows how self-aware of their own mistakes Bethesda are. It's the most annoying thing - when creators make fun of their own shortcomings but make no effort to improve on them. Why bother winking the audience in the first place then? I wouldn't be surprised if the next game featured a terminal about "some Vault Dweller who kept doing the same jobs again and again, who has boring friends" or "there's this holotape game company who keeps making repetitive stuff, why do they even try", or even "the old fans of this radio show just keep complaining, who cares? We're making money from the bigger crowd".

It might be like the movie "Commando" with Arnold Schwarzenegger. That movie is basically peak 80's Action, and the movie is completely aware of how ridiculous it is. The character Cindy exists solely to comment on the over-the-top machismo of everything that happens, but the makers know that despite the obvious stupidity the movie fucking rules.
The analogy is flawed, of course, because Commando is actually a rather competent movie and knows that it is not high-brow-entertainment. It's eating Green Berets for breakfast, and right now it's very hungry!
Fallout 4 (and previous Bethesda games, really) tries to be high-brow and stuff, but it also knows that it really, really isn't. The attempt at self-deprecating irony always feels like a lame excuse as they don't actually show that they could do it better. It's like a punk band where nobody can play their instruments, but their lyrics are all philosophical and they claim that their ineptitude is all ironic when it's painfully obvious that it really isn't.

 

[GeorgieBest]

I'm not sure how else the Gunners could've been named. Gunner Private Militia? Gunner Solutions? Gunner Company? Commonwealth Military Solutions? They're basically post-apocalyptic PMCs.
The Triggermen, though, could've been the Malone Family. The raiders in Fallout 4 had so much backstory themselves they could've been seperated into specific gangs.

Wasted Potential: The Game.

Talon Company was a better name already, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know, Blackstone Solutions, or something PMC-sounding.

MacCready says that they're animals who shoot everyone who gets in their way... But in reality they just shoot everyone, period. The Talon Company was at least hired to kill you if you were too much of a good guy, but the Gunners are just lame. I agree, they're just Smegma Crazies, only that they're not really former military personnel.

Well, so do you! You're an animal who shoots everyone that gets in your way, and you don't even get a say about it! Was this some elaborate attempt at self-criticizing irony, I wonder?

Fallout 4 was forcefed canned irony, all throughout. You lose your baby at the start and instantly meet Jun and Marcy Long after leaving the Vault, who also lost their child. Father has cancer even though he wasn't exposed to radiation while no one else has cancer even though they're always exposed to radiation. Kellogg also lost his family and became a hired killer, SOUND FAMILIAR? All the Raiders that don't detect you have fun little stories of their own and sympathetic backstories. FEEL BAD ABOUT IT, YOU ARE THE MURDERER (even though they're raiders). Those big guys who call themselves the Brotherhood of Steel, I worked in their predecessor (unless you were the female SS). And then there's the ton of failed irony on the subject of synths, people being synths, hating synths, loving synths and synths synths synths. Maybe the guy who hate synths is a synth? There's a guy who thinks feral ghouls are sentient. He works for the Brotherhood.

Spoiler

Paladin Danse was a synth - best example of this. SO IRONIC. "Commies" portrayed as bad, you meet someone from the Chinese Navy in a submarine and they're shown to be all nice. Deathclaw Mother and her egg quest - ANIMALS HAVE LIVES TOO! There's a terminal about how Vault-Tec employees didn't know Vault-Tec was experimenting on people's psych and not saving them. Mama Murphy says her chems fuelling her future Sight saved her life. If you keep giving chems to her, she dies. SYNTHS ARE PEOPLE TOO! Glory doesn't see "the light" when she dies. SO SMART, WHAT A REFLECTION ON THE MEANING OF LIFE AND OUR EXISTENCE.

The entire game is self-criticising irony. M'aiq the Liar shows how self-aware of their own mistakes Bethesda are. It's the most annoying thing - when creators make fun of their own shortcomings but make no effort to improve on them. Why bother winking the audience in the first place then? I wouldn't be surprised if the next game featured a terminal about "some Vault Dweller who kept doing the same jobs again and again, who has boring friends" or "there's this holotape game company who keeps making repetitive stuff, why do they even try", or even "the old fans of this radio show just keep complaining, who cares? We're making money from the bigger crowd".

-meet with Jun/Marcy who also lost baby..Not Irony
-Father cancer..Irony
-Kellogg becoming a killer...not Irony
-Raider/deathclaws being alive and having "humane" backstories..eh slightly Ironic (since they're just meatbags to you;p)
-Paladin being a synth..Irony (organisation that hates synths has synths in their rank)
-Bad Commies being good...Irony
-Guy who hates synths being a synth...Irony and very pathetic irony at that.
-Mama Murphy...pure Irony

Also ever since M-aiq dissed on levitation in Oblivion he needed to die.

Ps. maybe Emil just found out about irony;p

 

[ZigzagPX4]

The entire game is self-criticising irony. M'aiq the Liar shows how self-aware of their own mistakes Bethesda are. It's the most annoying thing - when creators make fun of their own shortcomings but make no effort to improve on them. Why bother winking the audience in the first place then? I wouldn't be surprised if the next game featured a terminal about "some Vault Dweller who kept doing the same jobs again and again, who has boring friends" or "there's this holotape game company who keeps making repetitive stuff, why do they even try", or even "the old fans of this radio show just keep complaining, who cares? We're making money from the bigger crowd".

Exactly, and I really, truly don't get it. Are they ashamed? Pete Hines doesn't seem to think so. Do they have an internal faction of rebels that actually CARE? What the fuck is going on?

Every video game company has an internal faction of rebels that actually care. I'm just not sure how big and influential Bethesda's is.

Pete Hines is like a friendly corporate spokesman. He wouldn't really understand why the majority of NMA is angry. The ones in charge of his job that do understand don't care.

 

[Mr Fish]

Remind again me how much money are you giving Someguy2001 to have any right to demand anything?

Two fiddy.

I think most of your anger at Someguy comes from the fact that his mods are very anti-Legion and you have made it point to say that the Legion is your go to faction for New Vegas judging from your big rant in the news section a while ago. He made it a point and has said many times before that if you love the Legion then you are going to hate his mods but so what, most players hate the Legion anyway and treat them as cannon fodder for their new weapons. Most modders make mods for themselves and their playstyle and then release them in case others might enjoy them. He isn't a studio nor is he looking to appeal to a mass audience like Bethesda. If someone told me that my art sucked and then said that I needed to make my art appeal to them I would bash my canvas against that jackass's head.

Yeah I'm not really angry. I'm just disappointed. I can't stand the NCR but if I were to create a quest mod then I wouldn't portray the NCR as baby-eaters. That's just bad writing as I let my bias take control. I expect more out of people, especially when it comes to writing, and the way Someguy handled the Legion was, well, disappointing. You don't need to know how to do custom animations or create complex AI pathing or create scripted events that set off at the precise time to simply write well. All you need to write is a keyboard/pen and your own brain. So yeah, I 'will' expect much more out of people when it comes to writing. I hold everyone to a higher standard when it comes to that. I don't think he should be excused for his piss poor handling of the Legion. But the breaking point for me with his mods were not the way he handled the Legion (except for Russel, I mean then his bias was 'really' hammered in). It was the crawling tedium of his quests.

Mr. Fish, I may have misspoken. I did not mean to say the guy is god, or his touch turned mods to gold, of course criticism is valid.

I personally think his mods are generally very good and well-thought of, and much better than plenty of DLC-content by Bethesda, especially. But you should see some of the other mods I mentioned, if you haven't already, Project Brazil especially.

I still think Someguy deserves praise and that he put a care into many of his mods that Bethesda simply doesn't bother doing. I'd love to check some of your mods (if I haven't already without knowing).

Project Brazil is amazing for a group of modders even though I personally didn't find it to be my cup of tea.

 

[RangerBoo]

Remind again me how much money are you giving Someguy2001 to have any right to demand anything?

Two fiddy.

I think most of your anger at Someguy comes from the fact that his mods are very anti-Legion and you have made it point to say that the Legion is your go to faction for New Vegas judging from your big rant in the news section a while ago. He made it a point and has said many times before that if you love the Legion then you are going to hate his mods but so what, most players hate the Legion anyway and treat them as cannon fodder for their new weapons. Most modders make mods for themselves and their playstyle and then release them in case others might enjoy them. He isn't a studio nor is he looking to appeal to a mass audience like Bethesda. If someone told me that my art sucked and then said that I needed to make my art appeal to them I would bash my canvas against that jackass's head.

Yeah I'm not really angry. I'm just disappointed. I can't stand the NCR but if I were to create a quest mod then I wouldn't portray the NCR as baby-eaters. That's just bad writing as I let my bias take control. I expect more out of people, especially when it comes to writing, and the way Someguy handled the Legion was, well, disappointing. You don't need to know how to do custom animations or create complex AI pathing or create scripted events that set off at the precise time to simply write well. All you need to write is a keyboard/pen and your own brain. So yeah, I 'will' expect much more out of people when it comes to writing. I hold everyone to a higher standard when it comes to that. I don't think he should be excused for his piss poor handling of the Legion. But the breaking point for me with his mods were not the way he handled the Legion (except for Russel, I mean then his bias was 'really' hammered in). It was the crawling tedium of his quests.

Mr. Fish, I may have misspoken. I did not mean to say the guy is god, or his touch turned mods to gold, of course criticism is valid.

I personally think his mods are generally very good and well-thought of, and much better than plenty of DLC-content by Bethesda, especially. But you should see some of the other mods I mentioned, if you haven't already, Project Brazil especially.

I still think Someguy deserves praise and that he put a care into many of his mods that Bethesda simply doesn't bother doing. I'd love to check some of your mods (if I haven't already without knowing).

Project Brazil is amazing for a group of modders even though I personally didn't find it to be my cup of tea.

With Russel he was a victim of the Legions abuse so his attitude was understandable even though he is a asshole and even Someguy has stated he hates him. As someone who was a victim of sexual abuse and assault I am not going to be singing praises at my abuser, look at things through rose colored lenses or say something like" Well the Legion is bad and what they did to me is terrible but the NCR is much worse!" Fuck that shit. You also need to understand that many modders and gamers don't dig deep into the lore or backstories as we do on NMA such as reading info and notes from the devs and creators. Most modders and gamers use what info they see in game. In New Vegas the Legion are portrayed as mass murdering, raping, misogynist slaver assholes who seem to get a hard on at making the lives of those who aren't Legion miserable. I honestly don't blame most modders for their portrayal of the Legion as we only have seen the "bad" of the Legion. Since that is the case then its not the fault of the modders so much as it is the fault of the developers and/or publishers. In this case it is the fault of the publishers, Bethesda, for giving Obsidian such short dev time to explore a faction like the Legion as Obsidian had to make sacrifices to compensate for New Vegas short dev time.

 

[Beaushizzle]

Irony. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. So learn to use it. A communist being a decent human being isn't irony. Neither is a synth in the BoS; that's just infiltration.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Irony. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. So learn to use it. A communist being a decent human being isn't irony. Neither is a synth in the BoS; that's just infiltration.

Maybe a group of people portrayed as "bad" turns out to be good isn't really irony, but a synth hater being a synth is very much the definition of irony.

Thing is, irony or not, all of my examples were examples of bad writing.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The view of the legion is mainly apprised from misinformed NCR propaganda and rumours, hence even backwater communities like Goodsprings view them as savage slavers. So if a person (in the game) hates the legion and depicts them as baby eating monsters, step back and review his sources. Most likely he'll be under bias for personal reasons such as being a war victim, a rape victim or something OR he will have tainted information from the NCR and second hand sources. So it's easy to excuse if a mod maker paints them as evil, because to the average New Vegas civilian, they very much are.

 

[Khannis]

The view of the legion is mainly apprised from misinformed NCR propaganda and rumours, hence even backwater communities like Goodsprings view them as savage slavers. So if a person (in the game) hates the legion and depicts them as baby eating monsters, step back and review his sources. Most likely he'll be under bias for personal reasons such as being a war victim, a rape victim or something OR he will have tainted information from the NCR and second hand sources. So it's easy to excuse if a mod maker paints them as evil, because to the average New Vegas civilian, they very much are.

Though I share some of Mr. Fish's grievances on the Legion's in-game treatment, that is a very good point.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The view of the legion is mainly apprised from misinformed NCR propaganda and rumours, hence even backwater communities like Goodsprings view them as savage slavers. So if a person (in the game) hates the legion and depicts them as baby eating monsters, step back and review his sources. Most likely he'll be under bias for personal reasons such as being a war victim, a rape victim or something OR he will have tainted information from the NCR and second hand sources. So it's easy to excuse if a mod maker paints them as evil, because to the average New Vegas civilian, they very much are.

Though I share some of Mr. Fish's grievances on the Legion's in-game treatment, that is a very good point.

Oh I agree, I agree but I aim to explain it with what I see as a reasonable explanation.

 

[RangerBoo]

The view of the legion is mainly apprised from misinformed NCR propaganda and rumours, hence even backwater communities like Goodsprings view them as savage slavers. So if a person (in the game) hates the legion and depicts them as baby eating monsters, step back and review his sources. Most likely he'll be under bias for personal reasons such as being a war victim, a rape victim or something OR he will have tainted information from the NCR and second hand sources. So it's easy to excuse if a mod maker paints them as evil, because to the average New Vegas civilian, they very much are.

Then again we don't see really anybody praise the Legion in game either. They only NPC I can think of is Raul, Cass and Dale Burton the trader who see in the Fort. However, Raul views seemed to be mixed as he lived in the southwest before the Legion came and knew how bad it was there before the Caesar came but doesn't seem to mind if you are hated by the Legion and fight them. Cass's praises is more reluctant and Dale Burton isn't someone I consider a upstanding Legion subject as he does go outside of Legion territory to trade in stuff that the Legion considers contraband which, to me, makes him a greedy opportunist with a convenient morality like most traders. With the lack of people in game willing to have the player question the Legions morality or offer a different view point of the Legion its no wonder the Legion are the chief bad guys in most mod makers mods.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The view of the legion is mainly apprised from misinformed NCR propaganda and rumours, hence even backwater communities like Goodsprings view them as savage slavers. So if a person (in the game) hates the legion and depicts them as baby eating monsters, step back and review his sources. Most likely he'll be under bias for personal reasons such as being a war victim, a rape victim or something OR he will have tainted information from the NCR and second hand sources. So it's easy to excuse if a mod maker paints them as evil, because to the average New Vegas civilian, they very much are.

Then again we don't see really anybody praise the Legion in game either. They only NPC I can think of is Raul, Cass and Dale Burton the trader who see in the Fort. However, Raul views seemed to be mixed as he lived in the southwest before the Legion came and knew how bad it was there before the Caesar came but doesn't seem to mind if you are hated by the Legion and fight them. Cass's praises is more reluctant and Dale Burton isn't someone I consider a upstanding Legion subject as he does go outside of Legion territory to trade in stuff that the Legion considers contraband which, to me, makes him a greedy opportunist with a convenient morality like most traders. With the lack of people in game willing to have the player question the Legions morality or offer a different view point of the Legion its no wonder the Legion are the chief bad guys in most mod makers mods.

The game doesn't have any legion settlement, so of course there will be little praise. Everyone who has an opinion on the legion and aren't part of it barely know about it, due to not living in their realm.

 

[MercenarySnake]

I know a little bit about them like the slavery and mysogyny but the encounters I've had with them had Boone and I slaughtering Legonaries.

 

[Spacemunkey]

I know a little bit about them like the slavery and mysogyny but the encounters I've had with them had Boone and I slaughtering Legonaries.

I've actually only done 1 Legion character, I use the Willow mod and the way she reacts to you helping the Legion legit made me feel bad; I deleted those saves and never went that route again.

 

[RangerBoo]

The view of the legion is mainly apprised from misinformed NCR propaganda and rumours, hence even backwater communities like Goodsprings view them as savage slavers. So if a person (in the game) hates the legion and depicts them as baby eating monsters, step back and review his sources. Most likely he'll be under bias for personal reasons such as being a war victim, a rape victim or something OR he will have tainted information from the NCR and second hand sources. So it's easy to excuse if a mod maker paints them as evil, because to the average New Vegas civilian, they very much are.

Then again we don't see really anybody praise the Legion in game either. They only NPC I can think of is Raul, Cass and Dale Burton the trader who see in the Fort. However, Raul views seemed to be mixed as he lived in the southwest before the Legion came and knew how bad it was there before the Caesar came but doesn't seem to mind if you are hated by the Legion and fight them. Cass's praises is more reluctant and Dale Burton isn't someone I consider a upstanding Legion subject as he does go outside of Legion territory to trade in stuff that the Legion considers contraband which, to me, makes him a greedy opportunist with a convenient morality like most traders. With the lack of people in game willing to have the player question the Legions morality or offer a different view point of the Legion its no wonder the Legion are the chief bad guys in most mod makers mods.

The game doesn't have any legion settlement, so of course there will be little praise. Everyone who has an opinion on the legion and aren't part of it barely know about it, due to not living in their realm.

I would have love to be able to go into Legion controlled settlements and speak with Legion subjects on their views of the Legion. Sadly that is something that will never be.

 

[MercenarySnake]

I know a little bit about them like the slavery and mysogyny but the encounters I've had with them had Boone and I slaughtering Legonaries.

I've actually only done 1 Legion character, I use the Willow mod and the way she reacts to you helping the Legion legit made me feel bad; I deleted those saves and never went that route again.

Was it really that bad? Can you explain a little on why in particular?
I can't bring myself to join the Legion, mainly the was they treat women and slavery. Not a fan of the outfits either, I remember someone calling them spear chuckers.

 

[Spacemunkey]

I created a character who's family was at Bitter Springs and hated the NCR. When you are doing a legion playthrough with Willow she asks if you're serious and as it progresses she starts pleading with you to kill Caesar and just take off. Right before the battle of Hoover Dam she gave my character a note and it was very emotional about how she couldn't do this anymore and left. I got the steam achievements and never did another legion playthrough. Quite honestly the character I felt needed more was Vulpes, he was the only character I felt was interesting in the entire Legion ranks.

 

[MercenarySnake]

I created a character who's family was at Bitter Springs and hated the NCR. When you are doing a legion playthrough with Willow she asks if you're serious and as it progresses she starts pleading with you to kill Caesar and just take off. Right before the battle of Hoover Dam she gave my character a note and it was very emotional about how she couldn't do this anymore and left. I got the steam achievements and never did another legion playthrough. Quite honestly the character I felt needed more was Vulpes, he was the only character I felt was interesting in the entire Legion ranks.

That sounds sad. I did think Antony sounded funny when he was calling Lupa a good old bitch. Funny enough when I had to fight and kill Lupa unarmed my companion killed her with a sub machine gun which made it easy(funny as hell too).