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Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Thebakedpotato, Dec 9, 2015.
Constructive criticism is a thing right? Yeah do that, not pointless dicking about.
The reason for why I criticized his stuff so harshly was because Khannis said his stuff was like DLC quality and "jaw-dropping" and even said Bethesda ought to hire him. That's why I went on my little tirade. Besides if I created something and I messed up badly then I would want harsh criticism that points out the flaws. I'm not a fragile vase, I can handle it and I expect others to handle it as well. I also don't see why it should be excused just cause he is a modder and because it is free content, I don't see myself as being excused either when it comes to my mods. And I'm not pissed because I'm not getting professional level work from one guy working on all the stuff alone (apart from voice acting as far as I know), I actually think he's very competent when it comes to his dedication towards modding and creating several mods that tie in together like that. What I am saying is that it is overrated. Yes, it is better than most of the stuff out there but it is not really... Well.. Good. All of the things we'd be bitching at Bethesda about he did, and worse at that.
Among all of the turds his turd is among the finest. It is still a turd though. A very splendid turd! But still a turd...
What do you mean by entitled? Entitled to what? I didn't approach his mod expecting to get exactly what the glorious motherfucking Mr Fish wanted. I approached his mod out of curiosity and open mindedness. Sadly, because of how his mods ended up being, I left them with a bitter taste in my mouth. How does that make me entitled? I don't feel entitled to anything when it comes to mods. Either they're good or they're not. In Someguy's case it is the latter.
So constructive criticism.
He should stop it with the damage sponges, they're just tedious. And they can really fuck over stealth characters that rely on clean kills from the shadows.
Same with waves of enemies, FNV ain't exactly that good of an FPS and having to deal with 20 enemies at the same time gets really clunky and messy.
The moral choices need to be less cartoonish, I don't know what else I can say about this, it's basically combining stupid evil and stupid good and making a 50/50 split between the two and offering them as choice A and choice B. Often times it doesn't feel like much of a moral choice at all, it just feels like regardless of what choice you'd make you'd lose out on it.
The narrative structure should also be tighter IMO. Like I said, too many characters are foretold about and it gets messy trying to remember all of them.
Just cause you, Someguy, feel like the player character is a genocidal lunatic does not mean that you need to hammer in that point over and over again. Having a bias is fine, letting it seep into your work can even be fine. But not when it happens repeatedly.
The whole Fiends thing where they got an increase in numbers and strength after their leaders and members constantly get wiped out simply doesn't make any sense.
Quality over Quantity would've been better. The quests where you do allow choice could have been ever better if you had chosen to work on them more rather than diverting your time between it and 5 other linear fluff quests.
There's some constructive criticism. I pretty much already said this in my previous post but whatever.
Honestly, I agree. I didn't really enjoy Someguy's mods and found them relatively boring and lacking.
Exactly. That is bullshit. Do you have any idea how much work goes into that shit FOR FREE!
Talk about a modders worst nightmare.
New Vegas Bounties and his other mods are very good for what they are. How many of you have even opened up the GECK?
I have. But remember we have to criticise them and find their flaws.
I have used GECk to create a couple of mods and like I said, I find his dedication towards modding with that toolkit to be commendable. But the products he produced after the first Bounties are not good IMO. I mean, just because you work really hard for something does not mean that it has to be good just because you spent so much time and effort into making it. That's not how the world works. Anyway here, go try out one of my mods: http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/42840/?
It is also a combat-oriented mod, meant to give the player more variety in the wasteland.
The point of the mod is that I disliked how no enemies in the main game uses DLC weapons but I didn't want to end up giving legionnaires gauss rifles and shit. So instead, I decided to simply add in some gangs that use DLC weapons and armor/clothing. I think the latest version may also include some DLC animals and creatures to the Mojave so uh... Yeah... Not exactly completely lore-friendly.
Anyway, the goal of the mod is to add gangs that use DLC weapons.
Did I succeed or not? Is it bad on what is presents itself to be or not?
Go ahead, download it and then criticize it if you want to.
I'll go ahead and criticize it myself. I simply re-used a raider ID so they're all practically just re-painted Fiends. They also move around a lot in the same position, not really sitting still much, which means they'll look... Weird... Never did figure out how to get them to stay put. They're also not the most balanced. I created the mod while playing a modded FNV so... Yeah.. Expect some of them to be a bit sponge-y.
Someguy worked on something and then allowed others to see what it was all about, if he didn't want any criticism then he could've just kept it to himself. But no, he chose to spend his time and effort to create these mods and then he chose to expose them to the rest of us and that means he will have to take criticism, just like anyone else who does the same. Just like you're free to criticize me. He doesn't get to be excused, no modder gets to be excused.
The only time I'd think it'd be mean to harshly criticize something is if a toddler drew a giraffe or something and wanted to show it to you. I mean, it's a fucking toddler.
Oh and to anyone who plays Hotline Miami 2, they recently released the beta version of the level editor and I've made a couple of levels:
4. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d2q8ktd12s3u7jj/Hammer Hus.rar?dl=0
Feel free to criticize those to.
Cause you see, I 'want' criticism. I want to share my work and I want to improve my work. And if I missed something or messed something up then how am I supposed to improve if you don't point it out to me?
And what's that? Did... Did you wanna know if Someguy 'want' criticism? But... Why yes... Yes he does!
Would ya look at that? Even "hater" comments are allowed!
To be fair though, apparently he's changed a bit since Bounties I.
Here's his Feedback part for Bounties III: http://orig05.deviantart.net/088a/f/2015/351/b/d/lndsaf_by_sallad_eating_hussy-d9khfac.jpg
Had I decided to post criticism at his comments section for Bounties III then I would be far more constructive and less harsh than I was here. The reason why I was harsh was because I wasn't posting criticism intended for him. I was posting criticism intended for those who rate his work way too highly IMO and I was hoping I could perhaps spark a bit of a debate about it, see if others share my criticism of the flaws in his work or not. To see if I'm the only one who these issues were apparent to. To see if maybe I missed something or maybe it actually is good but I approached it wrong.
So to summarize it a bit: No one is exempt from criticism. (also try out my mods kthnxbye!) And he does want criticism. But I'm not here to give him criticism, if I wanted to give him criticism I'd go over to his Nexus pages and comment on his stuff. I posted here because I wanted to talk with others who I usually share my views with and see if they feel the same way I do about the mod or if I'm missing something.
Looking back on my first post the only time I feel like I may have crossed the line is at this point: "It's clear he has some bias but jesus christ could he be more blatant and childish about it?" I didn't feel right typing that word, childish, back when I wrote it but I couldn't think of another way to describe it so I left it.
The rest I stand by. It is awful dreck. Bullet sponge enemies, voice acting that goes from professional to meh to godawful, too many damn enemies, convoluted story-lined, bad pacing, barely any choices (I don't care if it is a combat-oriented mod, it's called a quest mod and it was made for an RPG so I'm gonna expect some god damn RPGing), cartoonishly evil villains and equally cartoonish grey choices, quantity over quality. It's everything I loathe about Bethesda, but worse because this time it comes from a modder. And if I consider it awful dreck when Bethesda does it... Well. It's not really fair IMO to give him a pass just cause he did it for free and was only one guy.
But yeah, I could've been a bit less harsh. Sometimes I get really passionate when I rant and if the tone is to be negative/harsh/mean/aggressive then the whole rant will end up that way. It's a flaw of mine that I'm trying to work on. I still stand by most of what I said though.
Remind again me how much money are you giving Someguy2001 to have any right to demand anything?
I am not used with his work. But I am playing the devils advocate here, if someone is asking for criticism and claiming his work to be on the level of a professional - I am not saying Someguy is doing that, I just mean in general - why is money even really a point? Like if I want to criticise the mod like the work of a professional, since it's claiming to have that quality?
But even if it doesn't, sometimes the experience can be still very frustrating.
Thing is, I had this issue with the Civil War Overhaul mod. Which I think is a splendid idea! Absolutely awesome. But, at the end of the day, it's just a mod, which is alright, I never expected this epic 20 dollar DLC adventure. But no matter what I did, I simply could not get it to work properly. Starting a new character with a new savegame, removing the game, installing it without ANY other mods. And yet. The mod never really did what it was supposed to do. So I had no choice but to remove it completely, as it really spoiled my fun. Not to mention that it also completely broke the Civil War quest at one point since Ulfric, couldn't be killed. Using the console command to kill him though, didn't trigered the required dialog for some reason. And so the quest always remained in a state of siege of the city. Pretty frustrating!
I also had a mod once, that was nice from the idea, but extremly shoddy from the implementation! Sadly ... I have read the forum entry for it only AFTER I installed it, beleving the creator of the mod and what he wrote about it. Many people recommended NOT to use the mod, since it changed something in the game that, if it doesnt work correctly, can be only removed by a complete reinstal with completely new savegames, or you will always suffer crashes in certain areas. It simply corrupted savegames. The mod was supposed to have Stormcloacks fighting Imperials in key locations and it also increased the numbers of of them. I had no choice but to start the game again completely with a fresh install, as I had crashes in certain areas. Areas that I had to move trough for some quests ...
Just because something is free, doesn't mean that it should not be held up to a certain kind of standard. Particularly if the modder tells you that everything should be runing fine. But if the forum is full of people runing in to severe issues that also never see a fix (basically a dead mod at this point) ... well, what are you supposed to do? Applaud the person for trying it at least? We are just talking about games after all, so yeah, no reason to be a dick about it or calling the modder names. But it is clear that people will also vent their frustration, if it broke their game and experience.
I am just saying, you can, even from free work, expect something. At least, what it promises.
Mr. Fish, I may have misspoken. I did not mean to say the guy is god, or his touch turned mods to gold, of course criticism is valid.
I personally think his mods are generally very good and well-thought of, and much better than plenty of DLC-content by Bethesda, especially. But you should see some of the other mods I mentioned, if you haven't already, Project Brazil especially.
I still think Someguy deserves praise and that he put a care into many of his mods that Bethesda simply doesn't bother doing. I'd love to check some of your mods (if I haven't already without knowing).
I liked what Project Brazil has so far, I'm not sure if it's being continued though, or it's another dead WIP.
Nope, full release in February.
I think most of your anger at Someguy comes from the fact that his mods are very anti-Legion and you have made it point to say that the Legion is your go to faction for New Vegas judging from your big rant in the news section a while ago. He made it a point and has said many times before that if you love the Legion then you are going to hate his mods but so what, most players hate the Legion anyway and treat them as cannon fodder for their new weapons. Most modders make mods for themselves and their playstyle and then release them in case others might enjoy them. He isn't a studio nor is he looking to appeal to a mass audience like Bethesda. If someone told me that my art sucked and then said that I needed to make my art appeal to them I would bash my canvas against that jackass's head.
Demand: absolute no-no but some professional, honest critique..it can only make him better (provided of course the critique is good and he cares enough to take it into account:p). Definitely don't be a dick about it though..it was bloody free;p
This isn't Borderlands-level of poor worldbuilding. Borderlands has good humour and somewhat unique level design. Fallout 4 is basically one step away from being "procedurally generated", DayZ style. Or hell, even Minecraft style. Fallout 4 took limitless numbers of advice from multiplayer games. Borderlands, DayZ, Minecraft, Destiny, Elder Scrolls Online, etc. Have they forgotten they make singleplayer games or something?
Kill everything. Loot. Fun journals. Half-assed backstories. More Power Armor. It reeks of MMO design school.
Join the Gunners, watch as you help fortify the Gunners, then find out Preston survived on his own and rebuilt the Minutemen. They become the rival faction. That would've been excellent.
The actual result was worse than the Talon Company. They could've been raiders in looted army equipment for all I know, considering how vague Bethesda was with the Gunners.
I'm not sure how else the Gunners could've been named. Gunner Private Militia? Gunner Solutions? Gunner Company? Commonwealth Military Solutions? They're basically post-apocalyptic PMCs.
The Triggermen, though, could've been the Malone Family. The raiders in Fallout 4 had so much backstory themselves they could've been seperated into specific gangs.
Wasted Potential: The Game.
MacCready says that they're animals who shoot everyone who gets in their way... But in reality they just shoot everyone, period. The Talon Company was at least hired to kill you if you were too much of a good guy, but the Gunners are just lame. I agree, they're just Smegma Crazies, only that they're not really former military personnel.
Maybe the "Guns of the Commonwealth"? or maybe "Hard-skins" (you know smooth-skins;p), or the Boston Rascals?;p
Or maybe for something more creative, give them a specific gun they mostly manufacture and carry and name them after that...eg they make Aks call them the Forty-Sevens:p
Talon Company was a better name already, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know, Blackstone Solutions, or something PMC-sounding.
Well, so do you! You're an animal who shoots everyone that gets in your way, and you don't even get a say about it! Was this some elaborate attempt at self-criticizing irony, I wonder?
That's true. I'd love to play peacefully, but despite the Toddler's desire to answer "Yes" to every "Can I..." question, the answer to "Can I win by not killing everyone?" remains "Nope. Here, have a naval cannon!"
But to be fair, I only shoot what gets in my way, not absolutely everyone in my sight.
Fallout 4 was forcefed canned irony, all throughout. You lose your baby at the start and instantly meet Jun and Marcy Long after leaving the Vault, who also lost their child. Father has cancer even though he wasn't exposed to radiation while no one else has cancer even though they're always exposed to radiation. Kellogg also lost his family and became a hired killer, SOUND FAMILIAR? All the Raiders that don't detect you have fun little stories of their own and sympathetic backstories. FEEL BAD ABOUT IT, YOU ARE THE MURDERER (even though they're raiders). Those big guys who call themselves the Brotherhood of Steel, I worked in their predecessor (unless you were the female SS). And then there's the ton of failed irony on the subject of synths, people being synths, hating synths, loving synths and synths synths synths. Maybe the guy who hate synths is a synth? There's a guy who thinks feral ghouls are sentient. He works for the Brotherhood.
Paladin Danse was a synth - best example of this. SO IRONIC. "Commies" portrayed as bad, you meet someone from the Chinese Navy in a submarine and they're shown to be all nice. Deathclaw Mother and her egg quest - ANIMALS HAVE LIVES TOO! There's a terminal about how Vault-Tec employees didn't know Vault-Tec was experimenting on people's psych and not saving them. Mama Murphy says her chems fuelling her future Sight saved her life. If you keep giving chems to her, she dies. SYNTHS ARE PEOPLE TOO! Glory doesn't see "the light" when she dies. SO SMART, WHAT A REFLECTION ON THE MEANING OF LIFE AND OUR EXISTENCE.
The entire game is self-criticising irony. M'aiq the Liar shows how self-aware of their own mistakes Bethesda are. It's the most annoying thing - when creators make fun of their own shortcomings but make no effort to improve on them. Why bother winking the audience in the first place then? I wouldn't be surprised if the next game featured a terminal about "some Vault Dweller who kept doing the same jobs again and again, who has boring friends" or "there's this holotape game company who keeps making repetitive stuff, why do they even try", or even "the old fans of this radio show just keep complaining, who cares? We're making money from the bigger crowd".