Fallout 4 is not "Skyrim with guns."

[Khannis]

I wasn't originally a fan of the oufits either; until I installed a little mod called Caesar's New Regime. It fits perfectly with my vision of them, no refurbished sports gear, but crudely forged bronze and looted, easy-maintenace weapons. Also makes fighting them much better.

Feels good being an asshole in Yao Guai furs and bronze plate. Otherwise, I try to roleplay my characters, with no regard for my own opinions, otherwise I feel like I'd play the same character over and over again... So I did a few Legion playthroughs, though my first choice tends to be becoming the Lord of Vegas myself with an army of robots

(I just fucking hate the NCR)

 

[Ilosar]

The view of the legion is mainly apprised from misinformed NCR propaganda and rumours, hence even backwater communities like Goodsprings view them as savage slavers. So if a person (in the game) hates the legion and depicts them as baby eating monsters, step back and review his sources. Most likely he'll be under bias for personal reasons such as being a war victim, a rape victim or something OR he will have tainted information from the NCR and second hand sources. So it's easy to excuse if a mod maker paints them as evil, because to the average New Vegas civilian, they very much are.

Considering the actual actions of the Legion in the game and their epilogues, I'd say their reputation is well earned and then some, regardless of the dev's insistence that they somehow make the vast amounts of territory under their rule paradise on earth.

On top of the fact that there are almost no Legion NPCs that are sympathetic in any way. They are all variants on bad dudes doing bad things for X reason and with Y method. Sawyer explicitely called them villains if I remember right, just ones you can side with.

I mean, if it looks like a bunch of murderous slavers, talks like a bunch of murderous slavers, walks like a bunch of murderous slavers, and murders and enslaves like a bunch of murderous slavers...

 

[MercenarySnake]

So I'm not the only one that didn't like the Legion? I originally didn't state my opinion openly because I thought I'd get crucified. Then again I think I'm thinking about the Reddit Fallout forums and Beth forums.

 

[Khannis]

 

[Irwin John Finster]

So I'm not the only one that didn't like the Legion? I originally didn't state my opinion openly because I thought I'd get crucified. Then again I think I'm thinking about the Reddit Fallout forums and Beth forums.

I think that everyone should like the Legion on the simple basis that it was more creative than anything we're going to see from Bethesda at this point.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The view of the legion is mainly apprised from misinformed NCR propaganda and rumours, hence even backwater communities like Goodsprings view them as savage slavers. So if a person (in the game) hates the legion and depicts them as baby eating monsters, step back and review his sources. Most likely he'll be under bias for personal reasons such as being a war victim, a rape victim or something OR he will have tainted information from the NCR and second hand sources. So it's easy to excuse if a mod maker paints them as evil, because to the average New Vegas civilian, they very much are.

Considering the actual actions of the Legion in the game and their epilogues, I'd say their reputation is well earned and then some, regardless of the dev's insistence that they somehow make the vast amounts of territory under their rule paradise on earth.

On top of the fact that there are almost no Legion NPCs that are sympathetic in any way. They are all variants on bad dudes doing bad things for X reason and with Y method. Sawyer explicitely called them villains if I remember right, just ones you can side with.

I mean, if it looks like a bunch of murderous slavers, talks like a bunch of murderous slavers, walks like a bunch of murderous slavers, and murders and enslaves like a bunch of murderous slavers...

Well... I would argue that there's little information on them being totally and entirely cruel. While they do have their bad acts such as Nipton... don't forget that they killed raiders, a turncoat mayor and various 'innocents' who are members of the various vices in Nipton. Bad but justified. And so on. The whole 'they're psychopathic killers' comes from non Legion members who either don't know what they're talking about or just hate the Legion for personal reasons no matter the actual details.

 

[MercenarySnake]

So I'm not the only one that didn't like the Legion? I originally didn't state my opinion openly because I thought I'd get crucified. Then again I think I'm thinking about the Reddit Fallout forums and Beth forums.

I think that everyone should like the Legion on the simple basis that it was more creative than anything we're going to see from Bethesda at this point.

Fine, but this is only because it's way better then anything Bethesda could possibly fart out.

 

[Dr Fallout]

I personally adore the Legion. I find them interesting and unique, also I really want to see a mod that expands on their homelands. In general, I love the idea and ideals of the Legion, which is why I defend them to a degree. Yes they're evil (but it's either justified, efficient or useful), but I find that the people more evil are the ones that work with them. The Mayor of Nipton and the owner of the Novac hotel women are good examples.

 

[Ilosar]

So I'm not the only one that didn't like the Legion? I originally didn't state my opinion openly because I thought I'd get crucified. Then again I think I'm thinking about the Reddit Fallout forums and Beth forums.

It was the weak point amongst New Vegas's factions.

Well-meaning but corrupted government attempting to emulate pre-war values? great.

Egoistical, coldly efficient autocrat looking to tighten his hold on Vegas in pragmatic ways? nice.

Stagnant and declining BoS? cool.

Being able to say "screw you guys" and take over the Mojave? awesome.

Hell even minor factions, such as the Khans, Kings and Boomers have some interest to them.

And then you've got the band of rampaging rapists and murderers who spend the entire game finding creative ways to screw over everyone. Massacre an entire town and lie about how they deserved it for not defending themselves? Let's go. Attack a refugee camp? All in a day's work. Kidnap female soldiers and leave a tape behind implying you will enjoy raping her? How fun. Enslave a woman and pay extra for the child in her womb? business is business, yall. Make an entire settlement into a radiactive dump? that irony, dude. Leave dismembered soldiers booby trapped with mines? Passes the time. Send an operative to have New Caanan, the best place in the Wasteland basically, burned to the ground out of pure spite? Ceasar is truly a man of the people. To say nothing of the child soliders, crucified captives, people forced to fight in an arena, female slaves being raped repeatedly, rituals of decimation, slaves carrying around huge burdens with crippled legs...

Fuck, there's even this guy who delights in telling you how he purposefully makes the collars of his slaves as uncomfortable to wear as he can for the sheer lulz of it. And his grievance with Ceasar is that the old man isn't enough of a warmongering murderhobo.

And then Obsidian does "you guys, don't worry, everything else about the Legion is so great, they make the lands all peaceful and stuff despite behaving no better than raiders themselves and somehow make a territory as large as France peaceful in post-apocalyptic America despite most of their soldiers using fucking machetes and healing powder". And I just don't buy it. It feels like an half-assed excuse to cover the fact that, as seen in the game, the Legion is the worst bunch of murderous cunts to have graced the setting since the Enclave went tits up.

I'm all for morally ambiguous factions, but they need to have some visible good to them for frick's sake. Yes, we only see the Legion's army, but we also only see NCR's army apart from the people on the Strip. And while NCR have their Colonel Moores and General Olivers, they also have their Colonel Hsus and Chief Hanlons and loads of soldiers are obviously well-meaning even if not always the best people around. NCR feels like a faction with depth. The Legion doesn't, at all.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Really? I disagree. The Legion is painted as evil and depraved psycho-warriors which is true... to an extent. I find it hilarious how you imply that their whole peaceful lands and controlled areas is bullshit, especially as their war methods are brutal and depraved especially as they use massacre and rape to subdue populations, supporting mass slaughter. You ask, how can these methods promise peace and some kind of prosperity? That HAS to be bullshit right?

Well, you've never met Genghis Khan, who raped and slaughtered his way from China to Hungary, and yet made a prosperous, lawful and strong empire. His methods were very similar to the Legion, meaning that as a historical counterpart Caesar's method, as brutal as it is WORKS. However there is one flaw... if he dies it all falls apart. AGAIN, the same thing happened with Genghis Khan! I find Genghis a much better comparison then the Romans!

 

[RangerBoo]

So I'm not the only one that didn't like the Legion? I originally didn't state my opinion openly because I thought I'd get crucified. Then again I think I'm thinking about the Reddit Fallout forums and Beth forums.

I think that everyone should like the Legion on the simple basis that it was more creative than anything we're going to see from Bethesda at this point.

Fine, but this is only because it's way better then anything Bethesda could possibly fart out.

My 4 year cousin can come up with more creative factions then Bethesda can pull out of their hat. That said quite a bit about Bethesda writing talent.

 

[Dr Fallout]

So I'm not the only one that didn't like the Legion? I originally didn't state my opinion openly because I thought I'd get crucified. Then again I think I'm thinking about the Reddit Fallout forums and Beth forums.

I think that everyone should like the Legion on the simple basis that it was more creative than anything we're going to see from Bethesda at this point.

Fine, but this is only because it's way better then anything Bethesda could possibly fart out.

My 4 year cousin can come up with more creative factions then Bethesda can pull out of their hat. That said quite a bit about Bethesda writing talent.

It says everything.

 

[random234]

Fallout 4 is the natural progression of Skyrim. I easily predicted Fallout 4's shallowness based on Skyrim. Skyrim had very little dialogue choice - all answers basically "yes," the lore contradicted itself, and after you finish the main quest those farts in the mountain still ask you if you are going to be a bad guy or a good guy. The number of quests that defaulted to dungeon crawling was quite high, and the "puzzles" had their answers directly above them.

The highlights of Skyrim are watching modders make the game look pretty for screenshots. I know more people modding Skyrim for this purpose than actually playing the game itself.

Not to mention Skyrim began the grand tradition of making your character the Head of basically every guild/group in the game at the same time.

I distinctly remember becoming disgusted with the stupidity of Oblivion when I was suddenly head of the Assassins, Mages and Fighter guild so no Skyrim did not start this shit at all.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Is anyone going to respond to my explanation on the point that while it seems like ruthless raiders couldn't carve out a relatively peaceful and lawful empire yet by using historic comparisons they actually can?

No? Oh...

 

[RangerBoo]

Is anyone going to respond to my explanation on the point that while it seems like ruthless raiders couldn't carve out a relatively peaceful and lawful empire yet by using historic comparisons they actually can?

No? Oh...

Well you did say that, like Genghis Khan, the Legion will fall apart without a strong leader like Caesar to lead them. They kinda dug their own grave with that and those that say otherwise are deluding themselves.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Is anyone going to respond to my explanation on the point that while it seems like ruthless raiders couldn't carve out a relatively peaceful and lawful empire yet by using historic comparisons they actually can?

No? Oh...

Well you did say that, like Genghis Khan, the Legion will fall apart without a strong leader like Caesar to lead them. They kinda dug their own grave with that and those that say otherwise are deluding themselves.

Oh I agree, though it CAN work, it just has one fatal flaw... but other then that, the idea of a lawful and peaceful land ruled over by the Legion is 100% possible and plausible!