Fallout 4 teased? Three Dog returning

[UncannyGarlic]

Lovecraft inspired mutants is a good idea if it's done properly but androids really seem out of place in Fallout. While androids are retro-futuristic, Fallout seemed to approach robots in a more functional and industrial manner.

Bethesda wants to make a new "race" (think Ghoul, Super Mutant) which will be central to Boston.

You mean Harold?

Bethesda has no plans to reinvent the leveling up system to make it more like Skyrim and want to make Fallout 4 more distinct from Skyrim since of the complaints that Oblivion and Fallout 3 were too similar. Bethesda is thinking about introducing a system, similar to Skyrim, where your skills can level up if you perform certain tasks

This point contradicts itself and the rest is pretty questionable so I'm skeptical about the validity of the "leak". Somewhat amusing "speculation" nonetheless.

 

[Dead Guy]

According to a post on RPG Codex, the reddit rumors about android slaves etc were a hoax, completely fabricated by a bored reddit troll. Source is gameranx.com.

 

[Yamu]

Well, that brightens my day a tad (and I don't think many of us expected differently), but it can't undo that android slaves are, at least until Bethesda gets tired of the license, already a part of the canon.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

According to a post on RPG Codex, the reddit rumors about android slaves etc were a hoax, completely fabricated by a bored reddit troll. Source is gameranx.com.

Thank goodness, but I am sure Bethesda will have ideas with a similar degree of stupidity, if not even worse.

 

[BigBoss]

Hes probably just fuckin around. Doing for F3 fans.

 

[Akratus]

Bethesda fallout. . . . we meet again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgpcu8ZLlFc

Fuck any remotely positive thoughts. It's not going to be tolerable or anything like that. I'm so god damn cynical about games right now I'm just calling it now that it'll be the stupidest, most depressing game ever made.

 

[Dukeanumberone]

So after reading all of these posts I am confused as to what "belongs" in fallout 4.

Here is a list of what is not allowed according to your posts.

-BOS (in anyway shape or form) (which is counter-cannon when considering they won out against the enclave and are probably the largest force on the east coast)

-Enclave(agreed, they lost)

-Super Mutants(agreed, but will likely come again)

-Three Dog (agreed) .

-giant mutated lobsters(mirelurks kin?)(in line with current animals)
(actually I'm really curious on this one, what wildlife/aquaculture is "fallout")

-Lovecraftian monsters (dunno if I agree, alter earth + plasma weapons open doors to many possibilities concerning science)

-androids being black people pre-emancipation ( i agree this can easily been done poorly, but it has the possibility to also be done well, makes for many possible moral dilemmas)

Especially the androids.

A big nock on 3 was that it was too "newly posta poc" this is more in line with FNV being Post-Post APOC. so again why?
Besides A boy and his dog inspired the Vaults in FO and Dog companions why not the android?

Where is the freaking meteor that wipes Bethesda offices of the face of the Earth I keep wishing for!?!?

-thats just ridiculous even if you hate their games, they are still people who have to feed their families, regardless of your interpretation of how good a job they do.

But seriously, let's just wait for anything real and official before we start complaining.

Please, why not make happy thoughts to start the basis of mods with.

can fully and flawlessly simulate the microscopic complexity of a human mind and body? And they use this Star Trek miracle tech for... for making butlers and farm-hands...Slavery is already a widespread institution in the wasteland-- was robo-slavery really necessary to let us know that these guys were on the next level?

That is a mighty presumption, who says thats all, and if is mass produceable and readily available why have a human that is very fallible and has free will when you could program a slave to never rebel, work faithfully and require a modicum of supervision?

and the top-end tech level has shot up by orders of magnitude with each game

why not? do you want more of the "newly-apoc" FO3?
and if the institute is the pinnacle of pre war-tech who says they didn't keep many of the bells and whistles of the fallen society.

I also think they should be more 'mechanical' in nature, perhaps passing of as complete humans in the distance but the closer you get to them the more it's clear they are facsimiles of humans, sort of like robotic mannequins.

Agree wholeheartedly, there is a mod that changes all the F3 bots as such, think it fits the institute better.

http://fallout3.nexusmods.com/mods/15604

Fuck any remotely positive thoughts. It's not going to be tolerable or anything like that. I'm so god damn cynical about games right now I'm just calling it now that it'll be the stupidest, most depressing game ever made.

so no need for futher commenting?

 

[Hassknecht]

What's so bad about androids you ask? It doesn't fit with Fallout at all.
The Fallout-universe depicts an alternate world and an alternate history.
One in which semiconductors were just invented before the war and advanced microprocessors not possible (apart from some prototypes, I think).
Most electronics are based on advanced vacuum tubes, and since electrical power is widely available, that's fine.
Fallout is based around the World Of Tomorrow, the future how the people of the 50's imagined it.
The robots have no real intelligence, they are well programmed automatons (except for Skynet, but that thing is borderline canonical).
Before the war, robot technology looked like the robot from Lost Planet.
And now someone can just build perfectly human robots with intelligence, emotions and everything JUST TO LET THEM WORK ON A FARM?
Seriously, I consider that an insult to everyone's intelligence.
It just doesn't make sense at all. I like the Blade Runner-esque implications and possible plotlines, but not in Fallout. Not at all.

 

[Dukeanumberone]

The Fallout-universe depicts an alternate world and an alternate history.

Right. One inspired partly by the movie a boy and his dog, which contains a telepathic dog, an underground vault-like society and an android.(so far so good)

Fallout is based around the World Of Tomorrow, the future how the people of the 50's imagined it.

Yup you hit it . Tim cain says the tech was mostly based off Forbidden planet (1956), which contains Robby the Robot.


wiki quote: apologies

In Forbidden Planet, Robby exhibited artificial intelligence, but with a distinct personality that showed a (possibly unintentional) dry wit, presumably programmed by Dr. Morbius. He was instructed by Morbius to be helpful to the Earth starship crew; he synthesized and transported to their landing site the lead alloy shielding needed by its crew. While the film's poster depicts a fierce character abducting a maiden, no such scene was actually in the film; Robby only carried one person, crewman Dr. Ostro when he was mortally wounded by his own actions with the Krell's "plastic educator". Robby's speaking "mouth" was a monochromatic blue light organ, synchronized to his synthetic voice, its band of curved tubes located directly below his transparent conical "face" dome.

so now we have basis in two forms of inspiration to the original CANNON.

And now someone can just build perfectly human robots with intelligence, emotions and everything JUST TO LET THEM WORK ON A FARM?

who says they all have emotions, how would that benefit the scientists, you didn't even address my points in the prior thread, more in line with a mass produced slave bot

That is a mighty presumption, who says thats all, and if is mass produceable and readily available why have a human that is very fallible and has free will when you could program a slave to never rebel, work faithfully and require a modicum of supervision?

The robots have no real intelligence, they are well programmed automatons

Your perception of how it should be, not mine, mine is fine with things that have a firm basis like two sources of inspiration to cannon.

 

[Dead Guy]

A cannon is something that fires a projectile at high velocity. An artillery piece.

 

[Hassknecht]

Yes, Robby the robot had feelings (and yes, it's Forbidden Planet. Kinda got it mixed up with Lost In Space). Still, nothing in the original canon shows anything smaller than ZAX-class computers to have actual intelligence.
Just because something is inspired by it doesn't mean that having everything from that in your universe is good. Just because A Boy and His Dog has a telepathic dog in it doesn't mean that Doggytalk should be a skill. There are some people with psychic abilities in Fallout, but it's not a very big topic.
Same with robots. Just because Robby the Robot is intelligent it doesn't mean that Fallout's robots are intelligent.
So it's inspired by Forbidden Planet. Should Fallout 4 then have a humongous machine that fulfills every wish?

Fallout 3 had androids in it, and at least some of them were clearly intelligent, Harkness being the prime example. Zimmer actually describes the Institute's androids, and they're perfectly human.
If they weren't, why would there be an underground railroad to free them?
There'd be no point in freeing them if they weren't aware of their being as slaves.
That kinda rules out the possibility that the farm slaves are stupid machines.
Also, why build human-like robots (which are hilariously ineffective as farming machines) if you can just built a purely mechanical farming machine that is why more efficient? Like Mr. Handy? He'd shit all over any human-like machine when it comes to farming. More hands, doesn't stomp all over young crops and doesn't need to be fed, bathed or supervised.
I assume that if Bethesda would bring androids into the game, they'd go further down the Blade Runner line. Because they already established that. It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense (and seriously, a lot doesn't make sense in Fallout 3 when you think about it) in any way. It's already there, and it's mightily stupid in my opinion.
It doesn't make sense with respect to previous canon, the established universe and it doesn't even make sense in Fallout 3.

 

[Dukeanumberone]

*canon x2

Still, nothing in the original canon shows anything smaller than ZAX-class computers to have actual intelligence.

-so there is no expansion of ideas allowed ever, that sounds retarded and not something I would want in any game because it would just be repetitive if no new concepts are allowed, especially those in line with original source material.

and for the record he said the "tech" was mostly based off of it therefore the precedence is set, whether or not you like it is a matter of opinion.

Fallout 3 had androids in it, and at least some of them were clearly intelligent, Harkness being the prime example. Zimmer actually describes the Institute's androids, and they're perfectly human.

yup, confirmed canon. not your cup of tea but in line.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Besides A boy and his dog inspired the Vaults in FO and Dog companions why not the android?

Because, as said, they make no sense. Producing robots can't be cheap and easy in the post apocalypctic world. Imagine producing androids with completely useless functions (covering them with living tissue, giving them follicles that can grow a beard and hair, giving them a digestive apparatus that I guess is used for their energy needs somehow despite food being a highly inefficient source of energy and so on) for what is just a low labor class. Harkness and co. aren't the Blade Runner kind of androids (artificial but fully organic), why go to all that trouble? Especially considering that they aren't pre-war tech that just got rediscovered.

 

[Hassknecht]

*canon x2

Still, nothing in the original canon shows anything smaller than ZAX-class computers to have actual intelligence.

-so there is no expansion of ideas allowed ever, that sounds retarded and not something I would want in any game because it would just be repetitive if no new concepts are allowed, especially those in line with original source material.

and for the record he said the "tech" was mostly based off of it therefore the precedence is set, whether or not you like it is a matter of opinion.

Of course expansion is allowed. But it has to make sense. As explained, the android-slaves do not make sense. And Forgotten Planet is not source material. It's inspiration. That's a huge difference.

Fallout 3 had androids in it, and at least some of them were clearly intelligent, Harkness being the prime example. Zimmer actually describes the Institute's androids, and they're perfectly human.

yup, confirmed canon. not your cup of tea but in line.

I never said it wasn't canon. I just said it's very, very stupid. Bethesda added them for the coolness factor and for no other reason. They wanted a Blade Runner quest (maybe to pretend to have some depth) and so they added it, source material (in this case being Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics) be damned. They pretty much violate Fallout 1/2 canon, but a lot of stuff in Fallout 3 does, so who cares anymore...
I'm not saying that nobody can ever make synthetics in the Fallout universe. But 200 years after a nuclear and nobody in the Capital Wasteland even started farming. Sure, the Institute is a miraculous science facility, but suddenly inventing robots that are way beyond any of the technical limits from before the war? Wouldn't it make sense for them to, you know, focus on cleaning up instead of building a slave force that is basically exactly like human slaves?
Why the hell would you build slave robots that can bleed? That's just completely useless for a farming slaves.
„Oh no, another farming slave robot died of tetanus. If only we could make them of a material that is not susceptible to rusty tools! But alas, they need to be as human as possible so that if they inevitably gain self-consciousness we can't find them easily!“
But seriously, I really don't understand how you can defend Fallout 3's androids. They're so universally stupid it's not even funny anymore. And while Bethesda has a knack for ignoring previous games (even their own), I don't believe that they'll be smart about the androids, if they decide to add them.
Of course I hope that they will be smart, but history tells us otherwise. Writing really isn't their strength.

 

[TorontoReign]

I think they will give the androids more of a purpose besides just farming(might be giving them too much credit). Not sure what it will be but spying, sex slave, bounty hunter, and bullet shield sound plausible. I like the idea of an android honestly. I'm anxious to see something new besides Enclave, BoS, and NCR. They stand a chance of fucking it up, but let's face it, that wouldn't be a surprise. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove me otherwise. I'll buy the game even if it does suck. Mods can often change shit that you hate.

 

[Dukeanumberone]

Stanislao Moulinsky

Because, as said, they make no sense. Producing robots can't be cheap and easy in the post apocalypctic world. Imagine producing androids with completely useless functions (covering them with living tissue, giving them follicles that can grow a beard and hair, giving them a digestive apparatus that I guess is used for their energy needs somehow despite food being a highly inefficient source of energy and so on) for what is just a low labor class. Harkness and co. aren't the Blade Runner kind of androids (artificial but fully organic), why go to all that trouble? Especially considering that they aren't pre-war tech that just got rediscovered.

First, i never said either cheap or easily, per harkness he underwent many surgeries in order to appear fully human and escape the Institute. And even then zimmer still tracked him to rivet city.

why go to all that trouble?

I don't know, not a mind reader or script writer willing to let it play out.

As explained, the android-slaves do not make sense.

in the terms of "your very narrow context yes I agree, but I don't subject my possibility to one and only absolute rationale. Could be many uses and many "models" of android, going from rudimentary "slave bot" to sophisticated bounty hunter "harkness"

It's inspiration. That's a huge difference

agreed, i misspoke was going to word it one way then shortened it,
should have been "in line with original inspiration"

Hassknecht

I never said it wasn't canon. I just said it's very, very stupid

That is a subjective viewpoint, I though the Harkness quest was probably one of the most thought out and well implemented of FO3.

source material (in this case being Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics) be damned

See this is what I don't get , the imaginary line in the sand I have seen drawn in regards of deviation from source material, then when something is simple rehashed and simple put in as fan service it is still reviled. Seems a very narrow and close-minded path Fallout can walk on. Thats what " I don't get" all the "no,no,no's" what the hell are the yes's?

Wouldn't it make sense for them to, you know, focus on cleaning up instead of building a slave force that is basically exactly like human slaves?

We haven't even seen the institute/Boston but you are making assumptions to the living conditions/setting, rather premature don't you think?Even so I have provided a reasoning that you have yet to address

Why the hell would you build slave robots that can bleed? That's just completely useless for a farming slaves.

Yes I agree, your also nitpicking and lumping all possibilities into one, like I said, I would imagine different models, a wide range, and like cars of the 50's could be ordered with a myriad of options, to the owners taste.

I don't believe that they'll be smart about the androids

your more than welcome to it, I would rather reserve judgement until I experience it

Writing really isn't their strength.

agreed

and how come these threads only tear down what might be and not build up? not hype up (there is a difference) . Game isn't even announced and all their is, is negative speculation, yes I understand why, but why waste your energy on tearing down if you already expect a let down.?

 

[ArtWhiz]

As an avid fan of the Fallout franchise, it's weird for me to see so much hate towards the upcoming Fallout 4. I hate androids too, they make no sense, I hate that the designers and artists didn't even bothered to play the Fallout games before making F3. And I hate that games nowadays are more "commercial" than "entertainment". HOWEVER,

I had the fun of my life playing Fallout 3! And I still play it every now and then, even if I finished it five times already. I play it in a sandbox mode, like a never ending story. The wasteland relaxes me, I find it peaceful...

In my *humble* opinion, you are angry at the wrong people. You should be angry at Black Isle instead. No one forced them to give up the Fallout license and thus ruin your expectations. As for Bethesda, it's a business... Some people love the game, most fans would hate it. But I think they did a pretty good job. And I'm looking forward to Fallout 4.

 

[Hassknecht]

Wouldn't it make sense for them to, you know, focus on cleaning up instead of building a slave force that is basically exactly like human slaves?

We haven't even seen the institute/Boston but you are making assumptions to the living conditions/setting, rather premature don't you think?Even so I have provided a reasoning that you have yet to address

What reasoning? That mass produced docile slaves are better than human slaves? But Fallout 3 already established that a lot if not all the android slaves are able to gain self-consciousness. That those androids bleed, sleep and eat like human beings, that they basically are human beings to the point where if you delete their memory of being artificial they are indistinguishable from humans unless you cut them up.

Why the hell would you build slave robots that can bleed? That's just completely useless for a farming slaves.

Yes I agree, your also nitpicking and lumping all possibilities into one, like I said, I would imagine different models, a wide range, and like cars of the 50's could be ordered with a myriad of options, to the owners taste.

Yes, you would imagine that. Me, too. But given Bethesda's writing history I sincerely doubt that they'd think of something like that.

and how come these threads only tear down what might be and not build up? not hype up (there is a difference) . Game isn't even announced and all their is, is negative speculation, yes I understand why, but why waste your energy on tearing down if you already expect a let down.?

It's not exactly wasting energy, it's writing on the internet. Takes up a few minutes of my free time that otherwise I'd spend on Fail compilations on Youtube or porn or whatever.
People here tend to be negative because of experience. After Fallout 2 we never got the Fallout 3 we were promised back then. All we wanted was a nice new cRPG. We got a tactical RPG, some tardy action game and two action RPGs. People on here don't expect anything good anymore because why would they? Time and time we are being told that cRPGs don't sell, that isometric perspective and turn based combat is obsolete and violence is hilarious.
Yes, it's jaded and cynical, but it's to be expected.
However, Fallout: New Vegas met a warm reception and did show that there can be a good game again, even with its flawed game mechanics.
And Bethesda did a good job on Skyrim, although it's even less of an RPG than ever before.
I'm actually pretty neutral about Fallout 4 so far. I don't know what's going to be in the game. However, I do have expectations based on previous experience.
For example, if Bethesda decides to make androids and the railroad a part of the game, they will most likely fuck it up. Because it's a tough theme that is not easily compatible with original Fallout lore. Bethesda has yet to show that they're able to handle that.
But yes, we still don't know anything about the game. The real criticism will start when they do announce details.

 

[ArtWhiz]

Time and time we are being told that cRPGs don't sell, that isometric perspective and turn based combat is obsolete and violence is hilarious.

Well, can you prove that cRPGs do sell? Actual proof that is... Do you think that Bethesda's market researchers are morons?

Again, blaim Black Isle for ruining Fallout, not the buyer who *saved* the game and give it a decent continuation. Which again, I enjoy playing. Mainly because of excellent voice acting and the myriads of mods. Have you seen Fallout 3 with high-resolution textures? It's so... vivid. Like you're actually there, breathing the radioactive wasteland air...

I think that your argument with cRPGs is like our fathers or grandfathers who constantly remind us that "They don't make movies like that anymore..." Which is exactly what we're going to tell our children.

 

[Dukeanumberone]

Hassknecht

What reasoning? That mass produced docile slaves are better than human slaves?

yeah thats my point, the whole 100% human facsimile shouldn't be a common android trait, the eating,sleeping,shitting processing of food etc should be reserved for a select few as resources would be hard to mass produce that, but more robotic/mechanical androids without hair/skin/organs would be the norm. maybe I am stretching it by still calling a common robot with ai an android and not a cyborg.I would rather see that , the T2 like (not replicas) skeletal robots (which would be capable off being upgraded to Full Android) as the common android.

I think back to sarah connors narration in T2 in terms of why it would be better than human.

Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice.

But given Bethesda's writing history I sincerely doubt that they'd think of something like that.

agreed but its better to think of mine and wait than think negatively


ArtWhiz

Well, can you prove that cRPGs do sell? Actual proof that is... Do you think that Bethesda's market researchers are morons?

Again, blaim Black Isle for ruining Fallout, not the buyer who *saved* the game and give it a decent continuation. Which again, I enjoy playing. Mainly because of excellent voice acting and the myriads of mods. Have you seen Fallout 3 with high-resolution textures? It's so... vivid. Like you're actually there, breathing the radioactive wasteland air...

I think that your argument with cRPGs is like our fathers or grandfathers who constantly remind us that "They don't make movies like that anymore..." Which is exactly what we're going to tell our children.

Oh, this is going to stir up some shit.
Yes the WASTELAND 2 kickstarter and other cRPG kickstarters have proven there is a Viable market, maybe a slightly untapped one.
Is it as big as the console market? No. Is that the only consideration that should be given to making a "True" rpg though?
I love FO3, and I would never be so bold as to lay claim that it is a complete RPG, its an aRPG with rpg elements. And it would be wise to lay off the whole *saved* thing as that is not a welcome idea around these parts, just a heads up. You really should do a search on the argument on why the people on here don't like FO3 before dismissing the fact that FO3 is a watered down FALLOUT game.