Fallout Game for a Moron

[Buxbaum666]

Nope, they thought it was more important for you to read, "No, dogmeat Stay! Stay! bzzt yip yip yip"

I think it's more important for you to troll instead of adding anything to this discussion. If you claim one can't find the controls in the manual or in about one minute on the internet (or even quicker by pressing F1, the button generally associated with "Help" since about forever) then I'm not sure how to talk to you.

 

[Oppen]

Nope, they thought it was more important for you to read, "No, dogmeat Stay! Stay! bzzt yip yip yip"

Not making you read the controls every time you start a game, and having an easy to access manual instead is not a bug, it's a feature. I actually get sick with newer games when I want to replay because they make me go through a tutorial even when I played it three or more times from start to end. It's annoying. Come on, can't you read a one paged, full of pictures manual you can access with F1? How are you even using a computer? Do you call tech support to ask what's the start menu for?
Even the joke you point so despectively is something you could read a single time and NOT DO EVER AGAIN.

 

[Ben]

Nope, they thought it was more important for you to read, "No, dogmeat Stay! Stay! bzzt yip yip yip"

I think it's more important for you to troll instead of adding anything to this discussion. If you claim one can't find the controls in the manual or in about one minute on the internet (or even quicker by pressing F1, the button generally associated with "Help" since about forever) then I'm not sure how to talk to you.

But Fallout 2 doesn't have any tutorial. You get dropped in the temple in front of 2 giant ants and you're left to figure out what to do. At least FNV has Sunny Smiles to help you. Don't even try to say the overhead dialog helps, it is a god awful font and disappears too quickly to be of any use.

And why is it that you all call "troll" every time someone lodges a complaint against Fallout 1 or 2?

 

[Oppen]

But Fallout 2 doesn't have any tutorial. You get dropped in the temple in front of 2 giant ants and you're left to figure out what to do. At least FNV has Sunny Smiles to help you. Don't even try to say the overhead dialog helps, it is a god awful font and disappears too quickly to be of any use.

And why is it that you all call "troll" every time someone lodges a complaint against Fallout 1 or 2?

Do you really need a tutorial? The problems you pointed are easily solved by a single read to the manual. A. Single. Page.
What's the problem with that?
I didn't call you troll, so, no, not all of us call trolls people who complain about Fallout 1 or 2, the same way I don't call trolls people who liked more Fallout 3, even when I don't agree.
EDIT: As I said, I find tutorials to be annoying. The first time, it may be useful. When I want to replay, it's ten or more minutes of pain in the ass: "walk over here, shoot that little shit over there, yay, you are a genius". I don't replay for that.

 

[zegh8578]

^
tutorials should be separate from the game itself, like in fallout tactics.

 

[Ben]

But Fallout 2 doesn't have any tutorial. You get dropped in the temple in front of 2 giant ants and you're left to figure out what to do. At least FNV has Sunny Smiles to help you. Don't even try to say the overhead dialog helps, it is a god awful font and disappears too quickly to be of any use.

And why is it that you all call "troll" every time someone lodges a complaint against Fallout 1 or 2?

Do you really need a tutorial? The problems you pointed are easily solved by a single read to the manual. A. Single. Page.
What's the problem with that?
I didn't call you troll, so, no, not all of us call trolls people who complain about Fallout 1 or 2, the same way I don't call trolls people who liked more Fallout 3, even when I don't agree.
EDIT: As I said, I find tutorials to be annoying. The first time, it may be useful. When I want to replay, it's ten or more minutes of pain in the ass: "walk over here, shoot that little shit over there, yay, you are a genius". I don't replay for that.

Yes, I do want a tutorial. Sure, the manual has all that info; my specific problem (that others undoubtably have) is that my game did not come with a manual. So I had to save my game and quit, then Google the Fallout 1 manual and look for how to reload. It is just lazy that they did not put a tutorial in there.

And I'll give you that Fallout 3's tutorial piece is long. It is also the framing story. But New Vegas's tutorial is just an easy quest which you can skip if you want. That was great because I left that situation with a good grasp on how to play.

And you weren't the one calling me a troll, it was "Buxbaum"

 

[Oppen]

No, I don't mean the actual manual. I mean the help screen. Your game can not possibly come without the help screen. And that's a single page with all the info to solve the problems you pointed out.
If you want to expose another playgame issue which isn't correctly explained there, then I'll probably agree with you. But you didn't yet.
I know who called you a troll, but I also do know you made it general when you said "you all".
I'm not completely sure if you can skip the tutorial without breaking the storyline, since I'm not sure if anyone would point you in any direction if you don't do it. And for me, story is the main point of the game. I didn't completely replay New Vegas yet (I started to test a few mods which claimed to fix bugs and rebalance, etc., and it became to laggy, so I'll try it again later), so I didn't try skipping the tutorial there yet.

 

[zegh8578]

But Fallout 2 doesn't have any tutorial. You get dropped in the temple in front of 2 giant ants and you're left to figure out what to do. At least FNV has Sunny Smiles to help you. Don't even try to say the overhead dialog helps, it is a god awful font and disappears too quickly to be of any use.

And why is it that you all call "troll" every time someone lodges a complaint against Fallout 1 or 2?

Do you really need a tutorial? The problems you pointed are easily solved by a single read to the manual. A. Single. Page.
What's the problem with that?
I didn't call you troll, so, no, not all of us call trolls people who complain about Fallout 1 or 2, the same way I don't call trolls people who liked more Fallout 3, even when I don't agree.
EDIT: As I said, I find tutorials to be annoying. The first time, it may be useful. When I want to replay, it's ten or more minutes of pain in the ass: "walk over here, shoot that little shit over there, yay, you are a genius". I don't replay for that.

Yes, I do want a tutorial. Sure, the manual has all that info; my specific problem (that others undoubtably have) is that my game did not come with a manual. So I had to save my game and quit, then Google the Fallout 1 manual and look for how to reload. It is just lazy that they did not put a tutorial in there.

And I'll give you that Fallout 3's tutorial piece is long. It is also the framing story. But New Vegas's tutorial is just an easy quest which you can skip if you want. That was great because I left that situation with a good grasp on how to play.

And you weren't the one calling me a troll, it was "Buxbaum"

i was able to guess every click, every function, every move.
easily.

easily, easily, easily.

you get quite a few hints, for example, by moving the mouse, you will notice movement on the monitor: that is your pointer moving. when it is shaped like a crosshair, your mind goes to firearms, aiming, shooting. pretty clear cut. when it is shaped like a hand, you get an idea of touching something, handling something.
a mouth signifies talking to someone (i guess it could also mean eating something or someone, which i understand could be confusing)

easy.

 

[Ben]

But Fallout 2 doesn't have any tutorial. You get dropped in the temple in front of 2 giant ants and you're left to figure out what to do. At least FNV has Sunny Smiles to help you. Don't even try to say the overhead dialog helps, it is a god awful font and disappears too quickly to be of any use.

And why is it that you all call "troll" every time someone lodges a complaint against Fallout 1 or 2?

Do you really need a tutorial? The problems you pointed are easily solved by a single read to the manual. A. Single. Page.
What's the problem with that?
I didn't call you troll, so, no, not all of us call trolls people who complain about Fallout 1 or 2, the same way I don't call trolls people who liked more Fallout 3, even when I don't agree.
EDIT: As I said, I find tutorials to be annoying. The first time, it may be useful. When I want to replay, it's ten or more minutes of pain in the ass: "walk over here, shoot that little shit over there, yay, you are a genius". I don't replay for that.

Yes, I do want a tutorial. Sure, the manual has all that info; my specific problem (that others undoubtably have) is that my game did not come with a manual. So I had to save my game and quit, then Google the Fallout 1 manual and look for how to reload. It is just lazy that they did not put a tutorial in there.

And I'll give you that Fallout 3's tutorial piece is long. It is also the framing story. But New Vegas's tutorial is just an easy quest which you can skip if you want. That was great because I left that situation with a good grasp on how to play.

And you weren't the one calling me a troll, it was "Buxbaum"

i was able to guess every click, every function, every move.
easily.

easily, easily, easily.

you get quite a few hints, for example, by moving the mouse, you will notice movement on the monitor: that is your pointer moving. when it is shaped like a crosshair, your mind goes to firearms, aiming, shooting. pretty clear cut. when it is shaped like a hand, you get an idea of touching something, handling something.
a mouth signifies talking to someone (i guess it could also mean eating something or someone, which i understand could be confusing)

easy.

Just like knowing you have to use the "Science" skill on the computer to operate it is obvious?

 

[zegh8578]

Just like knowing you have to use the "Science" skill on the computer to operate it is obvious?

yes?
i mean...
obviously.

either science, repair, or simply try to "use" it

each attempt took me 1 second.
4 seconds in total.

 

[UnidentifiedFlyingTard]

Ben your problem is you excepted the game to hold your hand and it didn't, like many you have been spoiled by modern gaming and how stupidly easy most games are now.

 

[Oppen]

Just like knowing you have to use the "Science" skill on the computer to operate it is obvious?

Well, if just "use" didn't help, the first thing I try is "Examine". And IIRC, it points you out to "Hey, I think you should try science on this!".

 

[Walpknut]

Next thing you tell me is that I have to know that I should use Lockpick on doors.

 

[.Pixote.]

Ben you're been forced to use your brain, old school does that. The manual is a great read regardless if you play the game or not. ( http://www.oldgames.sk/en/game/fallout/download/3876/ ). Take the game slowly, it will take time to adjust. Try a few different character builds, kill the rats in the first cave - use the pistol, then try melee, and don't stress out if your not perfect - every character build has its strengths and weaknesses. The game allows a lot of gray - this isn't a simple black and white experience, that's why the game rocks.

 

[Buxbaum666]

And why is it that you all call "troll" every time someone lodges a complaint against Fallout 1 or 2?

"We all" do that? I think I did explain why I used the word. Hint: It was not because you complained about Fallout 1 or 2.

 

[Ben]

Here's some more-

In Klamath, you can turn an entire town hostile because two Characters with identical sprites have the name Buck and Chuck. What a great idea


Then take Johnny in Modoc. You get laddie the pooch who leads you into a well, where you find Johnny's gun. Then you take it back to his father, who begins weeping. What does the quest journal say?

"Johnny is in the slag caves, go get him"

Now, none of the events would seem to imply that he is in a cave. Not to mention, somehow I learned his location and the name of the place just by giving a BB Gun to Johnny's father. No indication where this might be, mind you, though you get told "Next to the Ghost Farm" a bit later. Awesome.


On to Gecko. You can go to the power plant under orders from Harold to fix the reactor. You need some keys to get to the reactor. No problem, you just need a requisition form to bring to Harold. Except Harold will never say shit about that form. Better hope you can pickpocket keys off the guards.

More on Gecko- you can go through all the work to fix Gecko's power plant. Then when you return to Vault City to get your citizenship (as was agreed on), the First Citizen will still not allow you to go into the vault. You can talk to your senator pal, but he will give you looping dialogue in that god awful font. Guess you can't get into the vault without 9 intelligence.

Then, despite repairing the reactor, Vault City will still attack Gecko, no matter what you did.

I will come up with more later

 

[Per]

More of what? Bugs and loose ends? I'm losing track here.

 

[TorontoReign]

Nope, they thought it was more important for you to read, "No, dogmeat Stay! Stay! bzzt yip yip yip"

I think it's more important for you to troll instead of adding anything to this discussion. If you claim one can't find the controls in the manual or in about one minute on the internet (or even quicker by pressing F1, the button generally associated with "Help" since about forever) then I'm not sure how to talk to you.

But Fallout 2 doesn't have any tutorial. You get dropped in the temple in front of 2 giant ants and you're left to figure out what to do. At least FNV has Sunny Smiles to help you. Don't even try to say the overhead dialog helps, it is a god awful font and disappears too quickly to be of any use.

And why is it that you all call "troll" every time someone lodges a complaint against Fallout 1 or 2?

Tutorial!? Hahahahaha!

I don't think you are trying to troll necessarily, but I always considered the Temple to be a simple tutorial. I was around 12 when I first played Fallout 2 and I never had problems learning anything. Pressing F1 brought up the controls, the skills are easy enough to understand, and the quests aren't too difficult to figure out. The Temple of Trials does suck pretty hard though. I never cared for it much, but it works ok as a tutorial. The whole town of Arroyo is basically a tutorial. It just doesn't blatantly come out and call it a tutorial like FNV did with Sunny Smiles.

 

[Oppen]

In Klamath, you can turn an entire town hostile because two Characters with identical sprites have the name Buck and Chuck. What a great idea

No, they go hostile because a) Buck and Chuck are brothers, fuck one and the other will want to fuck you, b) they're considered team Klamath. The latter is wrong, and IIRC it's fixed in the RP.
EDIT: Forgot to say, in the unreleased version, it will come out this year.

Then take Johnny in Modoc. You get laddie the pooch who leads you into a well, where you find Johnny's gun. Then you take it back to his father, who begins weeping. What does the quest journal say?

"Johnny is in the slag caves, go get him"

Now, none of the events would seem to imply that he is in a cave. Not to mention, somehow I learned his location and the name of the place just by giving a BB Gun to Johnny's father. No indication where this might be, mind you, though you get told "Next to the Ghost Farm" a bit later. Awesome.

Maybe (and it's only a MAYBE, I didn't noticed that since in all my playthroughs I did already see him) you saw the character and didn't pay attention. Your PC should've seen the boy. If not, please tell Killap, so it can be fixed in the RP.

On to Gecko. You can go to the power plant under orders from Harold to fix the reactor. You need some keys to get to the reactor. No problem, you just need a requisition form to bring to Harold. Except Harold will never say shit about that form. Better hope you can pickpocket keys off the guards.

Actually, that looks like a bug. It's completely reasonable they'd expect clearance from an authority to allow you to manipulate the plant. What's wrong is that you can't (you can't? I really just stole the keycard mostly because I didn't want to go back, so I'm not completely sure :p) tell Harold about it. He should probably give you the keycards. Again, you can report it in the proper thread to (maybe) get it fixed in the RP.

More on Gecko- you can go through all the work to fix Gecko's power plant. Then when you return to Vault City to get your citizenship (as was agreed on), the First Citizen will still not allow you to go into the vault. You can talk to your senator pal, but he will give you looping dialogue in that god awful font. Guess you can't get into the vault without 9 intelligence.

I really don't know what you mean. First Citizen asked you to shut the plant down, not to fix it. It's obvious she will not be happy and will not respect the agreement, since she considers you didn't either.
About the loop dialog, I really don't know what you're talking about, I had no problems to get my citizenship from the councelor.

Then, despite repairing the reactor, Vault City will still attack Gecko, no matter what you did.

Yeah, and that's a known bug, the correct ending actually exists. I'm really not sure how bugs are relevant here. I also think that's solved in the RP.
EDIT: However, there is a non buggy case where that happens: if you optimize the power plant but don't continue the diplomatic way, Vault City will seize Gecko because they're running out of energy.
EDIT 2: Anyway, I don't know how all of this is relevant, since the problem you had was with the user friendlyness. Messed up endings, for example, are not relevant, since the fact you can notice them means it was user friendly enough for you to win the game.

 

[boer_kameel]

I started playing Fallout 1 and 2 when I was 12 or 13 years old, so even a younger kid may be able to get into it. Of course I got my ass handed to me a few times, but I learned from my mistakes. I beat Fallout 1 with no problems.

I was about 14, and English isn't my native language. I had no one to guide or help me through it. Which was part of what attracted me.
It still is the game with the highest replayability. Compared to older games, the interface may not be sleek - but we've reached the other side of the spectrum now, with games being too easy.
There's a difference between intuitivity and holding hands.

Now ontopic: Typical for a bunch of INTP's to get asked a question, then go on about it for 2 pages while the OP has long since abandoned the topic. Wry, were you referring to yourself? Just an open question, I sometimes refer to myself as a moron as well. Tends to help some people to open up, as many are afraid of the opposite.