Fallout: New Vegas quest troubleshooting (spoilers)

[Lexx]

Well, if you are playing this game for the first time, the only thing I can suggest is to not play a pacifist. There is a lot combat in the game, simply because it is a first person shooter rpg. Additionally, in the combat-heavy quests, you often don't know if and how much combat you will encounter.

Beside this, yes, nearly all sidequests and main story parts can be done non-violent. But doing this on the first playthough? Well, I personally would find it annoying and demotivating to run away from everything or trying to figure out what will turn out to be a peaceful solution when dealing with things.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

I didn't go out of my looking for it. I had to go out of my way to avoid it.

When you walk into the Saloon after training with Sunny, it forces a cutscene on you between Trudy and Cobb. If you talk to Trudy afterwards and ask "I overheard your argument. What was that all about?", it automatically sticks that quest in your quest log. How I am supposed to know that asking a question like "what was that all about?" is going to automatically involve me in a gunfight between warring factions? It should not go in your quest log until you say "I would like to help you solve this problem" or whatever the dialog is, I don't remember exactly. It's ridiculous and it's bad game design.

IMO.

I don't get it. It's a problem if a quest is added but you decide to not do it? :S

 

[FearMonkey]

I don't get it. It's a problem if a quest is added but you decide to not do it? :S

LOL. I don't like quests being stuck in my Quest Log that I can't complete. It's an OCD thing. :p

Beside this, yes, nearly all sidequests and main story parts can be done non-violent. But doing this on the first playthough? Well, I personally would find it annoying and demotivating to run away from everything or trying to figure out what will turn out to be a peaceful solution when dealing with things.

I always try to do games non-violent first if I can. I did a pacifist run in DX:HR my first playthrough.

Same with Alpha Protocol, the superior game by Obsidian.

 

[Lexx]

Yeah, but DX:HR and AP are made in a way that it is possible to walk around enemies and you wouldn't be annoyed by it. In FNV, on the other hand, you encounter combat all the time, which you can only avoid with running away for miles until the ai loses your tracks... and this is annoying as hell.

What you could do instead is to kill encounter shit and try to do quests non-violent. But then again, why not just try to do quests as non-violent as possible whenever it is possible, instead of a 100% crazy-playthrough.

Well, ultimately your decission of course. Just wanted to note that the game isn't made for being finished with 100% non-combat in the first playthrough. :>

 

[SnapSlav]

The end of the game can be completed by having 100% Speech, but for the rest of the game, if you sincerely want to kill nothing, and win your victories through words, you're going to be avoiding 80% of the game, if not more. (Generic enemies littering the environment count, and in DLCs, they make up the BULK of your day-to-day labors...)

I think you are too pessimistic. At least half of the quest in the main game can be completed peacefully or without having to fight personally (and I'm not talking of letting your companions do the dirty work for you).

No, I'm really not. But I AM including the DLCs (which are part of the game, as far as I'm concerned), and you literally CANNOT beat Dead Money without killing anyone/anything. The need to use companions will involve them killing things. You also CANNOT beat Lonesome Road for the same reason. You can ignore the final battle, but you can't complete the DLC until everyone but you (or your allies) is dead. Those DLCs are a sizable chunk of the game. Also, I took into account that if a quest EVER involves some mandatory (or highly likely "accidental") violence, that means crossing out the ENTIRE QUEST. For example, fetch quests that involve going into ghoul-infested "dungeons". There aren't enough Stealth Boys to do all of these in the game, so that means another chunk of them are "impossible". I'm simply being practical, not pessimistic.

I agree. However, Obsidian wouldn't have put a mission like Ghost Town Gunfight in a game they constantly say can be beaten without killing anybody. They know the type of people who play like that [...] Which was bad game design IMO simply because Obsidian kept saying "you can beat the game without killing anything". I shouldn't have to avoid 80% of the game in order to do this.

Again, I don't think you can fault OBSIDIAN over this. Maybe if you played FO3, you'd understand how amazing NV is, considering what they had to work with. Remember, Obsidian was trying to make a "Do anything you want, beat the game any WAY you want" title, using a "Sandbox FPS" Engine. Bethesda also had very stringent time constraints on Obsidian (and considering how they ruthlessly gutted Interplay, despite the fact that Interplay totally complied with their contract, that shows you how uncompromising them are), so Obsidian had very little leeway to work with. I'm not saying that they should be given a free pass and that we should love them and everything they give us just because they're Obsidian, or just because they were effectively Bethesda's forced labor. I'm simply stating that they took a shitty engine, and they made an amazing game out of it, and that deserves serious praise! Yes, it's not NEARLY as flexible as the original games, but sadly that's just something that cannot be helped. I wish I could walk up to guards that I intend to slaughter and get them all drunk beforehand, but the Oblivion Engine doesn't allow for that. Don't try playing New Vegas like it's FO2, because you can't.

[Agility] affects Sneak which I use to avoid encounters so I don't have to kill anybody.
[Perception] affects Lockpick which I use to get loot so I don't need to rely on Luck to get money.
The "Official Strategy Guide" says that Speech is affected by Charisma. Is the guide wrong? ::

Every stat governs one or several associated skills, this is true. However, their impact is of MINIMAL importance, and I was using your intentions to play the game diplomatically and 100% non-violently as the basis for my recommendations. If you're playing without ANY DLCs, then you will be challenged to get most of your skills in the 80-100% range, however with the DLCs added, you're practically guaranteed everything can be raised to 100% with minimal effort. Even if you're in the former category, playing a non-violent diplomat means you won't be putting excessive points into Energy Weapons, Melee, and Unarmed, so it's not like you NEED all of your skills maxed, anyway.

Lockpick IS affected by PE, however in practicality, this is moot, because Lockpick only takes into account every 25% of the skill. from 26% to 49% you get EXACTLY ZERO boost to your lockpicking applications. You'll be spending points and taking Lockpick up to 75-100% regardless of your PE. Similar with Sneak, Survival, Science, and so on. When I said that CH doesn't affect Speech, I mean that when you make a Speech Check, it ignores CH and focuses strictly on your Speech, so that's all that matters.

Not true. I talked to Ringo without activating the quest and he gave me a Caravan deck. The door unlocks after doing the training with Sunny Smiles.

Ah, alright. I could've sworn that the door to his "hideout" remained locked until you spoke to Trudy about him, at which point you'd have already activated the Ghost Town Gunfight quest... But then again, it's been a couple months since I played the game.

Already past it. Hmmmmmm...not sure I want to start over. I'll have to think about it.

Quite simply, if you're around the Mojave Outpost or Nipton, you're effectively at the BEGINNING of the game. So believe it or not, you lose very very little by restarting right now. Also, if you still have 4 LK / 9 CH / 9 AG, I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY SUGGEST YOU RESTART!!!! Believe me, stats like that simply won't do you any good in this game... =|

 

[SnapSlav]

Somehow double-posted? Please delete.

 

[FearMonkey]

Quite simply, if you're around the Mojave Outpost or Nipton, you're effectively at the BEGINNING of the game. So believe it or not, you lose very very little by restarting right now. Also, if you still have 4 LK / 9 CH / 9 AG, I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY SUGGEST YOU RESTART!!!! Believe me, stats like that simply won't do you any good in this game... =|

I was at Nipton so I did start over. Changed my starting stats to

S - 1
P - 8
E - 1
C - 7
I - 8
A - 8
L - 7

Tagged: Sneak, Lockpick, Speech
Traits: Good Natured, Four Eyes

I'm wearing the Sheriff's Duster so my CHA is currently 8, and I'm wearing the Sheriff's Hat and Glasses so my PER is currently 10. Raised my Sneak to 51 when I hit level 2 and took the Swift Learner Perk. I'm currently at Primm now.

 

[SnapSlav]

That's better... I would've recommended 8 LK, 6 CH (if not 4 or 5), and redistributing the rest to ST and EN... just because. The wiki pointed out that the new engine made higher stats much less effective, while lower stats were much less of a detriment, and that's pretty accurate. The only REAL reason to have stats are certain levels is for Perks, believe it or not. You could have PE/AG at 6/6 for Light Step. ST/EN 6/6 in preparation for Stong Back, Burden to Bear, and Long Haul. And so on and so on. I typically tried having PE/AG/LK 6/6/8 for the associated combat Perks, and LK's general usefulness, but naturally that doesn't apply to your current run.

Regardless, your new setup is much better, so until you find the next "rather important" quest that seems to have no way out without fighting, you should be set! =)

(Some quests REALLY are cool the way they can be handled, in a somewhat sneaky/diplomatic fashion, so despite the abundance of violent-solution quests, I don't wanna sound like the rest ought be disregarded. But I do recommend you play a character without such "limitations", so you can get the full New Vegas experience, eventually...)

 

[FearMonkey]

Yeah, my second playthrough will be as a stealthy sniper type of character. Then I can do the killin'.

 

[Lexx]

Charisma is mainly used for companions. So if you plan on going solo, without npc help, you might as well reduce it to 4 or so.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

I'm simply being practical, not pessimistic.

No, you are counting the DLCs, which I didn't because they obviously can't be as flexible as the main game considering their setting.

Also how many fetch quests that involve ghoul infested dungeons are in the game? :S There are the vaults, the Repconn factory and...uh...

Yes, it's not NEARLY as flexible as the original games, but sadly that's just something that cannot be helped. I wish I could walk up to guards that I intend to slaughter and get them all drunk beforehand, but the Oblivion Engine doesn't allow for that. Don't try playing New Vegas like it's FO2, because you can't.

Hm...frankly I disagree. You can't get them drunk but you can poison them or use timed or remote controlled explosives.

In terms of gameplay options I don't see NV as restricted as you say, quite the contrary actually. Most of FO2 flexibility came from quest design, not emergent gameplay.

 

[SnapSlav]

Yeah, my second playthrough will be as a stealthy sniper type of character. Then I can do the killin'.

Yeah, that's how I find myself coming back and playing the game. Then again, I typically gravitate towards a sniper role in MANY games, be they shooters or otherwise. Curiously, their strong appeal to me is so great, that while weapons for the most part are quite balanced in New Vegas, in that any specialization can work wonders, I'm still amazed when I hear other players detail how they played the game using close quarters combat, or energy weapons! It's just foreign to me. =) Hmm.... come to think of it, that makes me wanna make my next character a NON sniper, to intentionally push myself outside that familiar comfort zone...

Do you suppose you'll end up "rebounding" from your non-violent approach where you had to avoid many things, with a game where you'll try to complete as much as possible, arguably as compensation? ^_~

I didn't [count the DLCs] because they obviously can't be as flexible as the main game[...]
Hm...frankly I disagree.[...]
I don't see NV as restricted as you say

There's really no point arguing with someone who has their mind made up. You believe in something, rather than know it. Can't argue with you. But if you took the time to actually, objectively look at the game, you'd see it for what it is. If you actually bothered to check out the quests and categorize them, you'd see how many were as I referred to them. Since this isn't your topic, I won't waste any more time with you.

That being said, I never, ever, EVER insinuated that New Vegas is a bad game- it IS, however, noticeably restricted by its engine. The very fact that FearMonkey started this thread out of sheer frustration/confoundment/curiosity over whether or not or how one goes about playing the game in the manner he intended is a testament that it IS restrictive in many ways. It's still a great game.

 

[FearMonkey]

Charisma is mainly used for companions. So if you plan on going solo, without npc help, you might as well reduce it to 4 or so.

To clarify, I'm not really trying to Min/Max or anything. I'm really just role-playing the character I want I guess. I'll do that for the next playthrough though probably.

I'm also gonna mod the hell out of the game on the next playthrough too. I generally play a game unmodded the first time through and then mod the crap out of it.

Yeah, that's how I find myself coming back and playing the game. Then again, I typically gravitate towards a sniper role in MANY games, be they shooters or otherwise.

Ditto. I like to kill without the danger of being killed myself. :p

Hmm.... come to think of it, that makes me wanna make my next character a NON sniper, to intentionally push myself outside that familiar comfort zone...

If you play Alpha Protocol, let me suggest a shotgun-wielding martial artist on one of your playthroughs. Lots of fun. :p

Do you suppose you'll end up "rebounding" from your non-violent approach where you had to avoid many things, with a game where you'll try to complete as much as possible, arguably as compensation? ^_~

Oh yes, absolutely.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

There's really no point arguing with someone who has their mind made up. You believe in something, rather than know it. Can't argue with you.But if you took the time to actually, objectively look at the game, you'd see it for what it is. If you actually bothered to check out the quests and categorize them, you'd see how many were as I referred to them. Since this isn't your topic, I won't waste any more time with you.

Sheesh, what kind of argument. Reeks of cop out frankly or an "I'm smarter than you" attitude. Regarding the "I don't see NV" replace it with "NV isn't", then. Poor choiche of words maybe? *shrug* English isn't my first language.

And while it sucks, DLCs obviously can't be as flexible as the main game. They are made in a short time, are much smaller in scope and size and more focused on whatever their theme/plot is.

The very fact that FearMonkey started this thread out of sheer frustration/confoundment/curiosity over whether or not or how one goes about playing the game in the manner he intended is a testament that it IS restrictive in many ways.

Wait, what? Having quests that cannot be beaten without someone dying is a restriction? What? So if I make a Rambo character and cannot beat any Diplomatic-only quest is a restriction?

 

[FearMonkey]

Wait, what? Having quests that cannot be beaten without someone dying is a restriction? What? So if I make a Rambo character and cannot beat any Diplomatic-only quest is a restriction?

I think the difference is I was making a character that I thought would be able to get past *most* quests without the need to kill anybody/anything. If you make a Rambo character, then you can get through the game by killing everything as that is also a feasible way of playing New Vegas.

EDIT: And, again, it's just that the Ghost Town Gunfight quest is so early in the game, it's a bit off-putting. I figured they'd have the opening area be a more exploratory area, rather than focus on the need for killin' and stuff. It just threw me off is all. *shrug*

After all, I have eventually found out that Primm is the place that's really hard to get through without killing anything or having anybody else do your killing for you. Goodsprings is a cakewalk in comparison. :p

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

I think the difference is I was making a character that I thought would be able to get past *most* quests without the need to kill anybody/anything.

But you can (DLCs aside, happy SnapSlav?), most quests are diplomat/no-killing friendly. Strangely enough (or maybe not given that it's a console game first) it's just the starting area that throws at you quests where avoiding any death at all is hard. Once you get past Novac things change dramatically.

While we are at it I never understood the logic behind the "Come fly with me" quest. At the beginning at the quest you must pass through a chokepoint with a handful of enemies that can't be avoided. But after that the whole quest is designed in a way that let's you complete it non-violently. WTF?

 

[FearMonkey]

I'm having issues with Primm as a pacifist. Should I make this a new thread or just post about it here? I don't want to clutter up the forums with a bunch of topics if I don't have to. :p

Basically. The last time I got through here on my previous playthrough I had issues but I got around them. I got into the Vicki and Vance casino by being stealthy, but now the guards are hyper-aware of me and I even have a higher Sneak skill now. I had to resort to a Stealth Boy to get in this time.

I then hoofed it to Bison Steve's in Stealth Boy mode after talking to Nash about Beagle. I walked in still Stealth Boy'd, talked to Beagle and freed him, and then all hell breaks loose and he tries shooting everything up. If I don't ask him to stay by my side, he runs away and then my Stealth Boy runs out and I get shot to shit. It's really annoying. >_<

Any advice?

EDIT: Well, I did it finally. I did it thusly:

1. Sneak up on right side of Vicki and Vance Casino right before the corner.
2. Activate Stealth Boy
3. Sneak into Casino, talk to Nash about Beagle to activate the quest.
4. Immediately exit casino while Stealth Boy is still active.
5. Pick lock in lobby to enter kitchen corridor.
6. Talk to Beagle and get him to tell me about man in checkered suit (Speech Check for XP)
7. Reverse pickpocketed a better weapon for him as he would have need of it soon, while also taking all his ammo so he would need to use the better weapon)
8. Talk to Beagle again and set him free and tell him to scurry away as it is what he's good at (if I were to do the speech check to get XP, he would stick with me and kill people which is not what I want)
9. Sneak with Beagle outside (Stealth Boy is still active so nobody spots me and the game basically lets Beagle out that way unharmed)
10. Beagle gets into gunfight with the two Gangers outside. Since I gave him a better weapon, he turns them into swiss cheese. Since he's not my companion, their deaths are not on me and my conscience is clear.
11. Steal the weapon and ammo I gave him back from Beagle.

And there was much rejoicing. Though I did have to waste a Stealth Boy on it.

 

[SnapSlav]

No, I don't think you need to write a new topic. This one might've started about Ghost Town Gunfight, but it branched off beyond that almost immediately, and it's all about the same issue anyhow. Regarding your difficulties in Primm, well, there's a couple things...

For starters, I've found that the positioning of the Escaped Convicts in Primm differs from time to time. Maybe it's the amount of time it takes me, from different playthroughs, to reach Primm, whereupon their regular patrols have placed them in gradually, wildly different lcoations? Either way, there were times I'd approach the V&V from the North, and encounter no one, and other times, there would be one or even two Convicts I'd run into from the very same location. It's likely your "hyper aware" instance might have been a result of their positions being changed.

As per the quest itself... if you're alright with being a little cruel, at the expense of not killing, you can "persuade" Beagle to divulge the information you need to progress along the main storyline, without actually freeing him. One of my biggest issues with the modern games is that the quests have no time limits of any kind. So while Primm gives off the atmosphere of a place that's recently been taken over by hostile forces and has a delicate hostage situation... if you leave it alone and return in-game months later, NOTHING will have happened. Should you never complete Primm's "My Kind of Town" quest, it will indeed impact the town's ending, but your decision to not kill anyone or anything will indirectly result in the same thing for MANY other possible endings, so that shouldn't really matter.

Regardless, that's a simple solution to moving on with the main quest, 100% non-violently. The patrols within the Bison Steve are very predictable, and if you slip in, get your information, and slip back out, there should be no cause for bloodshed.

Even when you get to the "civilized" areas, you'll still encounter this problem. One quest in particular will strike you as a purely passive, harmless "help them out" string of errands, and sure enough you're JUST helping this group out. Suddenly you get ambushed, and without a Stealth Boy, it's difficult to avoid. Ah, but no worries, you CAN avoid it. THEN the quest tops off with the wholesale slaughter of an entire town...... Essentially, you'll never see it coming whether a given quest will be consistent the entire time, or suddenly change its purpose without any warning.

 

[FearMonkey]

Not sure if you saw my edit or not, but I did finally get through it. Thanks for the advice though.

I set up Primm Slimm as the Sheriff and now I'm gonna go to the Mojave Outpost and talk to people there and stuff then continue on to Nipton.

 

[Ilosar]

The early parts of the game are the worst; linear, less options (save for Primm), kinda repetitive. Once you get to Novac, it gets better, and New Vegas itself has plenty of non-violent quests (or with violence not in any way triggered by the PC).

Also, quick question, does the no-kill rule applies to robots? There are a few dungeons exclusively populated by robots, and they block the path to a few quests.